Block Breaker/Vulnerability Window Timing

That's a win for gameplay.

/thread

If messaging is being added to inform the player what their opponent is vulnerable to, I don’t see why the canceling of melee damage is necessary. It should be one or the other. Either I see what you’re vulnerable to all the time(No animation canceling), or messaging is implemented to tell me. The messaging is definitely the safer way to go, because it doesn’t tamper with game-wide mechanics.

Over the past year there have been several “balancing" changes made with animation canceling in mind. It would be a disaster to remove animation canceling, in any capacity, and not reevaluate many balancing changes made at the same time.

The reduced vulnerability after a block break is an interesting idea. Its very annoying to have impeccable timing on the animation cancel of a block break only to be interrupted 2 seconds later. I haven’t been on the test server, so that may not be an issue anymore though.

No problem, thanks for looking into it so quickly.

Looking forward to seeing all of this go live. Wondering how it'll turn out.

Awesome! Thanks for listening to feedback.

So the rock/reticle/paper above ur head will happen? If so I think this is bending to the low classed player base, but I'll test before I say anything else.

I understand, which is why I said I was for the idea. Again say I use spin chop and clip with any power, I can completely bypass the animation for spin chop and still get the full damage. If this is intended as you say, why even have animations at all? That is why I am for the idea, the animation can play out or you can cancel the animations and forfeit any benefit from the weapon attack. This would not only give those who do not know the fighting system inside and out a better fighting chance against those of us who do know the system well, but it would also give everyone proper tells of when to block, lunge, etc.

I understand the differences between the two. That's why I call clipping the act of bypassing an animation with a damaging power to front load damage, and I call canceling the ability to cancel a animation to use a support power to save themselves from death. Two completely different situations. Now I strongly feel you should prevent us from getting any benefit to any moves animation that we bypass. Again for the sake of the new blood in PvP as well as casuals. The current system benefits only those of us who know the system inside and out while those that just play to have a good time get face rolled by the likes of us. If you do make it so that we no longer get any benefit from canceling an animation other than the ability to better defend ourselves from death in a tight situation, it would place everyone on equal footing while also making it so everyone had to get better at setting up their attacks rather than simply hiding everything within different animations which does not help anyone learn properly. Again, why even design animations if they can be bypassed?

I am happy about this change to let people know when to act through the clipping that you are adding. At least it's a step in the right direction.

Changing too many things at once might be a bad idea. I think seeing the effect of the other changes might answer if any changes about animation-cancel (I will call it by this name, because it describes the action better) are necessary.
Another idea would be, that an animation has to be executed for a minimum amount of time to get the damage from both attacks.

I'm wondering: Can you show us a screenshot of your new "messaging", or will it get to Test-server soon? I'm very curious and you didn't even mention it in the OP . Will it be included in GU 27?

Tunso has stated that the "messaging" system will be in GU28 not GU27.

I haven't done this extensive of testing, but from what I've "felt" while playing--blockbreaker counter window seems to hold throughout the duration of the follow-up move. If a power, the duration of the power. If a block, the duration of the block. The way I clear this window sooner is by doing a fast animation power like SG that is ready almost on call.

these videos explains a lot, cheers

The vulnerability window of block seems to work the same way (on live). That's probably why we noticed getting blockbroken randomly and maybe that's part of the "stunlock" too...the window seems to be removed by using a power or countering someone, but not run out after 1.3 seconds. (it seems to last 1.3 seconds when a power is used).

I was only able to nitice, because you posted it

You can't please everyone. I'm sorry you lack the courage of your convictions and didn't follow through -- have "caved" -- on this in the face of a handful of objections without appearing to take into account that good or bad, right or wrong, the majority will always massively favor the status quo. The familiar is always in demand, regardless of whether it is better or worse than a possible change.

When people object to a proposed change not yet in effect, they're voting a lack of confidence in your ability to get things right, and not "screw things up further."

When you go along with that, you're voting in favor of player's lack of trust in your competence.

Of course, maybe the players who feel that way ae right -- they certainly feel strongly that they are -- but it seems odd for developers to agree that their judgment is probably crap.

And, to be sure, not having a chance to try out what you had in mind, I can't say it wouldn't have been crap. I'm most certainly not against asking players' opinions and being responsive!

But I am saying that opinion is not unanimous that the status quo on clipping is optimal.

And I seriously disagree with the POV that says that experienced players can't be good unless they obscure what they're doing from less experienced players. That does not strike me as a principle to admire or promulgate. (Yes, I recognize you're saying your new change will make things more transparent; I'm simply noting.)

Actually Tunso asked for our opinion and all but 1 at the time objected. It has nothing to do with "caving" so much as seeing it was a point of contention. The change would of impacted PVE a lot more than people want to admit and I personally am tired of being blamed by the PVE crowd EVERY TIME a power or weapon is changed.

I do not currently have the time to go through this whole thread, again, but has a conclusion been landed upon for the block window? If so, I'll search through later. I remember Tunso talking about decreasing the block vulnerability window, has that change been implemented with GU27? Because live server's window is too long. It completely eliminates the possibility of feinting, which dumbs down the combat. I understand the purpose of the notifications of vulnerability (though I disagree completely), but coupled with the current block window (which understandably has to exist to compensate for server latency but should be at the absolute minimum that accomplishes that goal), players will have almost every tool removed from their arsenal.

Repeat post.

My phone fails at forums.

Tunso will we be seeing the BB>block fix in game update 28? Also I'm still seeing immunity given to the wrong person occasionally. (He lunges me/gets knocked down/ and gets immunity.)

I really hope those bugs get fixed long before GU 28.
The immunity still seems to be granted to the wrong person when you barely hit your oponent in the vulnerability window, somewhere when it is almost gone.
I was able to reproduce it quite reliable with Talve. He did a BB as TwoFace and I lunged him with Robin. Ususally the red symbol refuses to appear then as well or the character doesn't get knocked down.

Both BB- and blockwindow have some odd behaviour.

is what's happening with the BB windows.

And other games we are allowed Source Developer Console to use commands that I use
cl_update rate 101
cl_cmdrate 101
cl_interp 0.067
cl_interp_ratio 2
ping = shows your ping
fps = shows your fps

even APB has this.

without that, otherwise, its awesome
but rates are different for everyone,
with the default rates,game is diffucult to time everything.
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Devs, I know you guys do know, but give this some thought.

@Tunso, give this a try on your internal server, and then see if it improves.