AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!!!...The Avengers Infinity War Part 2 Thread

I don't want to start something here but...

If you want equal rights for women: Congrats! You're a feminist! That's what feminism is. Now, sometimes, feminism is taken too far, and is it essentially becomes offensive towards men. That kind of radical feminism, I don't like.

I don't like it how feminism is painted as a bad thing. People are misconstruing it with radical feminism, which is bad.

And I'm not an SJW. To me, if the story is good, I'm good.

A-Force was basically a team consisting of female only Avengers which started strong with good sales figures with its 1st issue but by issue 9, sales dropped by 79%. Then the comic went through several creative changes in order to help it but as Reinheld stated it was cancelled. I read the series. It was decent at best. But the premise always seemed forced. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for equality. But make equality organic. It felt a lot more natural with the run of Mighty Avengers. Alas, Marvel, comics wise is only pushing comics for an issue or two thanks to variants.

Not only that but did you take note of a small reference during the film where there was talk of an earthquake under the sea. It was unimportant to the story but in the back of my mind, I was thinking....Namor?

^^^^ Yes and I think the fact that nothing was being done meant one thing...Wakana knows about Namor and Atlantis. And they've got a 'keep your mouth shut about us' agreement between one another.

How does 'A-Force' differ from Wonder Woman and Theirmascara? Other than the fact with A-Force they didn't view men as lower than pond-scum and ban them from their world
Seems like equality is good, butt only if men are more equal, otherwise you are an evil man-hating 'feminazi'

How many all-male groups are there, in both Marvel and DC? With maybe a few 'token' female characters, and yet, when they make an all-female group (who still respect men) who isn't Amazonian (who hate all men), then it's bad?

It was one of those books which started great but ran out of steam REAL fast. It ended up being less a 'We're superheroes that don't have to mention we're women" and more a 'We're women and we have to remind you of it every third page" type of book.

Sounds more like it was a response to the male readers who didn't understand where the men were
"Why doesn't that character have a beard?" "Why is that character wearing a skirt? Is he Scottish?" "What are those lumps on that mans chest? Did he get bitten by radioactive mosquitos?"

It isn't about a team of all-women bad azzes. That's fine. It's great in fact because who doesn't like to see a bad azz chick kicking butt? That's why Black Widow has always been popular (well....and Scarlett Johanson), it's the fact that they needed a scene where (and this is going to be spoiler-y) Cap Marvel (who we've already been told like a DOZEN times now is the most powerful person in the universe AND just took down Thanos's ship single handed) needs to make it across a battlefield, so suddenly 7 or 8 other female heroes converge and are slowly panned across to make sure we KNOW it's only women...mind you a group of women who were just seconds earlier fighting across various parts of the battlefield...and deliver the line "Don't worry...SHE's got help" or whatever. That's what makes it cringy and bad. Yes, there are plenty of male fueled scenes in the movie (all movies really) but I don't ever remember it being delivered in a way that I was thinking "wow....that MAN or MEN really came through for that other MAN....no stinky WOMEN in this scene I tells ya!" Tell me you didn't think something like that about the A-Force scene.....cause you did. Quite honestly I think it's anti-feminism to have to point it out in this way. If we are truly trying to be equal, you should not have to point out the scene with the big slow pan and cheezy line....just gather up and help her.

Rescue, Scarlet Witch and Valkyrie were probably the most powerful of the group and they could have both come over to help her out...perfectly fine...they could even deliver the exact same line(minus the slow pan), the others (you know...like Mantis and Michonne and Black Panther's sister) could even have helped in some way....I doubt I would have noticed it was only women helping Cap Marvel (you know....the most powerful person on the screen). Making it a "LOOK! IT'S ALL THE WOMEN WHO WILL HELP HER" moment is what makes it SJW and bad....not the fact that she's actually helped by only women. It takes the viewer out of the experience, as it does almost every time a 'message' is delivered in a otherwise 'non-message' movie. If I'm going to see 'Green Book' and get a message about racial issues in the deep south...we went in expecting it as part of the experience, so a message is perfectly fine. This ain't green book.

Now....if later, that same team of women come up and they release an A-Force movie down the line, sure....you can say it was more foreshadowing than just a "look....Women!" moment in Endgame, but I'd doubt that this group would be the A-Force a movie would be built around. You can also say it's fan service to have put an A-Force-y group together, but there are probably more 'Howard the Duck' fans than A-Force and I guess he WAS in the battle (saw a screen cap) but in a subtle nod to fans....in the background....not hitting us over the head with a hammer and 'message' scene.

Oh, and just as you say that wanting things to be more equal does not make you a 'feminazi', just pointing out that something....anything involving women (or having a majority of women)...was bad does not make 'us' anti feminist or anti-women. Example... Ghostbusters 2016 was just bad....as in not a good movie...and that's why it failed. It's not because of 'women hating' men, it was bad directing, acting and script....some of which were done also by women.

Reinheld

Yep.

Because going through a battleship killing everyone is different than crossing a football field making sure she doesn't by mistake injure anyone on her own team in the process.

... haven't seen the movie yet, guess it's been long enough for spoilers?

Sorry.....yeah, I kind of assumed if you were participating in this conversation, you had already seen the movie. Honestly it wasn't that spoilery....now If I had mentioned that scene where Hulk and Thanos played checkers...whoops....sorry.

Sorry if I spoiled Ghostbusters 2016 for you too.....it was bad.

Reinheld

Was actually commenting on the "A-Force" series

LOVE the Namor posts - he is HANDS DOWN one of my favorite Marvel characters.

It baffles me why Marvel CU did NOTHING with THESE guys



Was kinda hoping that MCU would've diverged somehow - perhaps RIGHT AFTER the 1st Captain America movie - and introduced The Toros, Bucky, Cap AND Sub-Mariner...

Include Union Jack as well.

Those Invader Comics were simply AWESOME. Among the favorites in my comic collection.

I loved the back-and-forth that Sub Mariner had with The Fantastic Four...dude had a serious crush on Invisible Woman and seemed to punk Mr. Fantastic about it on the regular, lol..............

Prince Namor was awfully tough under water, too - able to hold his own verses Hulk, from what I recall.

Too bad that they didn't introduce Prince Namor - at least not yet.

ALSO - I know that Bucky "DID" die towards the end of the 1st Cap movie so ANY divergence would've been nearly impossible....still would be nice to somehow include him in a future Invaders movie.

Most likely because of Namor. I wouldn't be surprised if his rights were tied to Fantastic Four or his own movie rights are tied up with another company (haven't done any digging on it).

They did have a nod to the WWII Human Torch, though. In First Avenger you can see Dr. Phineas Horton's Synthetic Man featured prominently at the Stark World Expo that Bucky and Steve visit.

Remember: Namor is the First Mutant, so that's probably why he hasn't been introduced into the MCU, yet

Namor is actually a tricky character to bring in. He's owned by Universal, just like Hulk is. Hulk is still co-owned by Universal (Hence, no Hulk movie) so there's that. I could see Disney doing a similar deal with Namor to bring him into the MCU. But with Aquaman's success, it would essentially be shoving a middle finger to WB's face. Doubt Disney would do that, but can they? Absolutely.

I know they had the nod, but I doubt we'll see Namor anytime soon. DC just launched Aquaman and although the movie could have been better, he kind of planted the Atlantis/undersea flag already. Marvel will be looked at as copycat-ing them, regardless of who got there first in the comics. Maybe down the line, but I'd guess not in Black Panther 2 or the immediate future.


Also, any reference directly to the WW2 Human Torch would probably have been seen as IP infringement...even if the WW2 Human Torch was not the same as the FF Human Torch. Not like the movie going audience would know the difference between the 2 of them. Maybe now that the Fox merger is over...we'll see. I highly doubt we'll see WW2 era stuff though. Cap went into the ice in WW2 shortly after getting his stuff together...shoehorning a bunch of side stories on how he was running around with the Invaders THEN got back to the Cap America 1 storyline to be frozen in ice would be a timeline mess. Parallel universe maybe...or splinter timeline?

Reinheld

Was that really necessary to add?

From all indications, if Disney though it would make them money, they'd do it. LOL They know they've got a winning thing going with their Marvel films and I don't think they'd lose any sleep over WB or their thoughts. They are competitors, after all.