And Just like that GU 41 is ruined

Okay, so how can you tell the difference between a Lair Battle where it's idling and one where the pairs are going at it? Because unless you're watching the actual fights, the time used is pretty much the same so time spent won't reflect it well.

You can't accuse me of assuming and then go on to state that the reason is players were gearing up too fast. You're basing this off an assumption too. The developers haven't commented on the speed of progression. I'm pretty sure if they were bothered about the speed of progression, they wouldn't have rushed a fix out for the previous seasons marks that players have been hoarding. Not to mention reimbursing those who lost marks.

The evidence points to the fact that players are throwing matches and this is a direct and quick response to discourage players from throwing lair battles.

Yeah it's a problem in other instances, too, but Lair Battles take absolutely no time at all to complete. So it takes priority over maps like Batcave which take a lot longer to complete even when the match is being thrown.

Yes it's a disadvantage for those who play fair, but blame this pathetic community and it's desire to obtain everything the cheapest, easiest way, even if it involves exploiting vulnerabilities in the system.

This is right up there with the system allowing groups to run content without a healer because the game has a feature in place which allows missing roles to be fulfilled with passive buffs. Just like the passive buffs thing, the developers didn't intend for it to be abused by the players, but it is.

Like I said earlier, whatever way you look at it, lair battles are still the fastest way to achieve marks. Certainly faster than a 4v4, 5v5 or 8v8 which goes to a 15 minute draw.

1) I don't know if this is the case. I seem to recall the last time 1v1 lair battles were available was soon after season 2 launched which was long before Weapon Mastery was in the game. All I remember is running 1v1 lair battles to gear up/work on my feats and 3HK guys who weren't wearing any armour whatsoever.

2) Because my belief is that it's a direct response to the complaints of exploitation and nothing else. I believe the developers intended fully to make all fights drop even marks. If I had my way, I would have always had shorter fights dropping less marks than larger fights but I'm not in charge so I can't change that.

I don't think it has anything to do with the rate of progression. If they cared about progression that much, they'd have disabled players from redeeming those marks they've been hoarding for months that they obtained during the last PVP season. But they didn't. They rushed a fix out and are helping players who lost marks. This and Mepps commenting on a post about the exploitation of lair battles leads me to believe it's more about that than anything else.

The Lair battles was given the same reward as other pvp maps for a whole year and nobody complained now because someone cried it got nerfed. sigh....

BTW can you guys do something about the lag it has increased lately.

Well... glad I got about 5 matches in yesterday... this only hurts casual players (like me) because I don't have the time to wait 30 minutes for a different match. Pretty much why I didn't gear up via pvp the first time around which I guess I should have given gear costed less but lair battles gave out the same marks as other pvp instances...

I do like the pvp changes... it gives guys like me, who mainly pve, a chance against to pvp with my chosen loadout/gear against full 99/100 guys in the arena. Open world they may murder me but when the playing field is equal I whooped some butt last night. Tank nerfs did bring a good balance to pvp.

Torikumu -
If you think that running one 4v4 or 5v5 takes longer than running three 2v2 lair battles, then we must be playing different games. If you win one 4v4 or 5v5 (which can be done in a matter of minutes), you earn 200 MoV. In order for a player running lair battles for feats to earn a minimum of 200 marks (+ the additional) he has to win 3 lair battles in a row. You aren't considering that minor little detail. You running the 4 or 5 man only have to win one match, the player running the lair battles has to win 3 matches. It is absolutely faster now to earn marks by running 4v4s and 5v5s than it is running a lair battles. It is easier to win once, than it is to win 3 times in a row. Come on man....

It's only a 25pt style feat

What's the rush anyway? If getting to a certain level of SP makes grinding for SP less alluring, then why do you need to get the style feat so quickly? Your Skill Points already at a high enough level right? That style feat isn't going to do much for you. If you hate PVP so much, then why not just do a little bit every day? It all adds up. You'll get the style eventually and as you don't care about PVP then it's not even a case of "remaining competitive". Heck you could even wait until next season and buy the style when it's cheaper.

agree that most players dont like pvp but the change on marks should not matter! if we are talking about feats then there are alot of feats that are annoying in pve .. just takes time! we should be able to farm pvp/pve feats and take just as long! look i feel like we should earn our feats not be handed to us! and that should go for gear as well!

Indeed, it would appear we are playing different games because if you believe that lair battles take the same amount of time as other matches, then you're not playing the DCUO I've been playing for the past 3 and a half years.

A player running lair battles has to get 3 knockouts to win. 3 knockouts is nothing compared to what you have to do in every other instance. Even other death match instances require more than 3 knockouts to win.

I'm sorry but this is grasping at straws at best. Lair battles, including queue times, take considerably less time than any other map. To say otherwise is just ludicrous.

I had to sign up to say this decision makes absolutely no sense.

Adjusting the marks from lairs does not solve the problem of afk players, these players will no doubt move on to other game modes.

Lairs was a good entry point to PvP and I actually got a few league members to try PvP who normally go no where near it...... this change has effectively killed off any chance of keeping these players doing PvP in the short term as they don't like the objective based game modes and 4 vs 4 or 5 vs 5 can be intimidating to new PvP players.

Now it will take them forever and a day to gear up through lairs.

how about a protest?
every one q's for pvp then stand around emoting at the other team . Can emotes be monitored???

Again...for the last time


The lair battles player has to play 3 times as many instances and win EVERY one of them to earn the marks that a 4v4 or 5v5 player can earn from ONE match. Do you run 1v1 or 2v2 lair battles? Do you win every time you play them? Probably not right...the difference isn't even close. It is, once again, faster to win a 4v4 or 5v5 than it is for a player to win 3 lair battles. The lair battles player has to win 3x as often...this isn't rocket science here.

This adjustment is unfair in comparison to the 8v8 reward system.

Yea, not too many feats left.

I agree. This change has most certainly sucked the life out of this GU.

Lair nerf makes sense. Even now you go in and lie down 3 times and it still takes less than one Batcave match. Personally I'd have set a lair win at 100 and a loss at 25 but this is more or less the same.

As for the prestige nerf that does seem a bit much. Certainly PVP marks are easier to grind out but I'd have said halfing the prestige would have been sufficient.

In any case, I'm not sure that either of these ruined the season on the whole. The former at it's worst still only has an effect during that rotation and the latter while disappointing won't likely have too much of an effect on those who'd PVP normally.