Ability To See Stats In Groups

Skill points give you more of these.
Driving license is important too.

Through all the fray you wrote I respond with following:
1. I did not make group
2. The liar was not main troll and not using weapon mastery but had we immediately kicked than people like minded as yourself would yell "elitism".
3. Yes I did notice, rethink that ability to evaluate performance you mentioned, but again benefit of the doubt. The group wiped and chalked it up to getting kinks out. Wiped agaik noticing power issues. Third wipr we identify an issue and address it.

Imo everything else you say is pointless when this game is dependent on "trusting" people. Public stats just backup what everyone claims.

This is where we end up with hard feelings and frustration though... In many cases addressing the issue is handled poorly. (Namely in the form of kicking the player who isn't performing, rather than actually giving them advice or making any effort to identify why they aren't performing as is expected of them.)

Take for instance the secondary troller: Suddenly towards the end of a boss fight there is a wipe, it's blamed on not enough power getting to where it needs to be, and the secondary troller has a nearly full power bar. What is the problem? Is it...
A)The troller doesn't know how to give power.
B)The troller is haveing latancy issues that are preventing him from hitting his power dump as often as he wants to.
C)The troller is getting KOed, repeatedly preventing him from activating his power dump.
D)B and C combined.
E)Troller is "under-geared".
F)B,C and E combined.
G)C, and E combined.
H)B and E combined.
I)A, B, C, and E combined?

As you can see there is a wide range of possibilities up there, many of which aren't necessarily the controllers fault. (And naturally it is quite frustrating to get kicked without anyone trying to find out what's going on on your end, especially if you want to improve but don't know for sure what the problem is yourself...)

Ya about that. For the time being lets skip D - I. Is a pug a place to figure this out? Or maybe it should be a league run with people that are more prepared to deal with you and actually will benefit from your improvement? Your friends and league mates should be taking that burden up, not some pug that has expectations of you but not responsibilities to you.

Seems like a bad idea. Why don't you just ask if stats are such a big concern?

Lol they wouldnt lie about that to stay in and "hopefully" you'll carry them?

prolly cause ppl have to lie to get into just about any grp these days to meet the ridiculous community requirements

What you are saying is sort of...
a. I had The Tools to know but chose not to.
b. I could have avoided the issue but people would have been mean to me.

I would...
"Dude, you clearly lied to us and that's not cool; from then on either..
a. We ask certain values because we know ourselves can't handle without help...
b. We'll leave it like it today and you can join next time when you gear up better, just give me a tell next...
c. We can have you along but if we have an issue we won't be able to continue...
d. It's more about trust than CR now, i would have totally understand it's your alt if you have said so

Now i would never be in such a predicamente because i don't ask for stat values but for players,
And i have my own way to test skills (even without running content)
I've never been on a PreMade group that couldn't handle a content

I usually prefer to gauge a person's ability in the content and not outside of it. I remember a lot many time with lot many undergeared players who did very well in the game and a lot many geared players doing much worse than those undergeared. I don't mind carrying a fella if I could and help if I can. I personally don't ask for any CR or SP requirements when setting up a group. I'd take my chances without knowing who's who and what stats they got.

It would seem unfair to remove a person simply on the basis of his/her stats.

See the thing is, not everyone has a group of friends or a league that is big enough for them to learn how to play their role in a raid setting, and thus they have to pug if they want to play the raid content. Heck the community at large can't agree on how geared is geared enough for certain content.

Players use alerts to gear up, and those tend to be a different animal than a raid. Three wipes I'd dare say is not enough playtime for a newbie to figure out why they are wiping.(By newbie I mean someone new to the raid, who is prone to not knowing what killed them and have to rely on the group to offer guidance and advice on what tells they need to look out for.)

Top that off with there being no reliable way to tell if a player is lagging without communicating with them.(By communicating I mean you should ask them politely about why they stopped dumping power at the end of the raid. Not yelling at them in all caps "OMG Give us MOAR POWER you NOOB!" The latter isn't going to help if the player in question is KOed, and certainly isn't going to help them be a better troll.

Secondly the improvement of Pug Players might seem like a drop in the bucket in terms of the odds of it ever benefiting you... But you know what? A pug group could actually benefit from the improvement. I really believe that we would have fewer bad pugs if they did take some responsibility for improving their fellow pug players... After all it's not like you can assume that you'll never queue with that player ever again.(Especially on villain side.) In short the community should be able to take responsibility for improving the community.

That random newbie you meet in the pug who doesn't seem to know what he's doing? How do you know that you'll never get paired with him again? To assume that you won't ever benefit from improving the skills of other members of the pug community is likely a contributing factor in why Pugs have such a bad name....

People are still sensitive about stats? Get over it lol they're your stats. Improve them if you don't like it.

I wish it worked this way Minnion, I really do, I must be dealing with a bunch of saints here. The people I run into even in T6 pugs have higher expectations. My main target of this conversation was the people that are lying about their stats to gain access to a spot in one of these pugs. Listing the basic stats would eliminate these lies. If even after they lie to you and you still want to help them? Welp lets call the vatican. "Saint Minnion" Patron Saint of DCUO.

I'm being poked at because I dont agree that these stats should be hidden. I dont mind that, I'm just being realistic with what I've experienced. Have I been on the other end of this? have I been kicked from raids when I was new? Yep, and they were prolly right at the time.

This is a terrible mentality for a controller. Even if the other troll's VIT is just 14 points higher, they should still be the only one throwing PoT. More power is more power plain and simple. If the higher VIT troll is doing a bad job then then you and him need to come to a decision that you will be taking over. Never should you two just be throwing out out PoT overwriting each other. It causes the group to get less power because overwriting make the ticks come 10 seconds instead of every 5 seconds. No disrespect, but I've played with people like you and it's extremely annoying to have some low VIT troll constantly overwriting and acting like they don't understand a word of English. There is no "let's see who's better" lower Vit always plays backup unless there's a problem.

Some of these responses are hilarious! Do you realize if someone inspects you they can see your psn name? Never hear any uproar about that. But god forbid if someone sees your sp or stats. Quit bsing other players and you won't have to worry about it biting you in the butt later lol.

The concern is simply that it will get harder to improve our stats should they become visible... (Due to players kicking us because they want someone with higher stats in their group.) Simply put, we're talking about pessimists who fear that visible stats will prove counterproductive to their goal of improving their stats.

I'm PC. I don't have a PSN name. But rest assured if I did I would indeed complain about it.

Actually, if your in-game reaction is similar to your last comment, no wonder you will experience troubles in regards to Power Regeneration when not been assisted by Battle Advantage Specialists

"Even if the other troll's VIT is just 14 points higher, they should still be the only one throwing PoT"

It is a sad misconception in your part saying POT is a matter of Vit instead of skill,
It proves you haven't done the math nor gain the experience to understand that a 150 constant POT tick is better than a 400 Whenever i remember POT, nor you understand the strategically valuable Double Tick;

"If the higher VIT troll is doing a bad job then then you and him need to come to a decision"
This should have gone first otherwise you are givien a very ill/unwanted/unneded/misleading advice and even that is poorly misguided,

You might think is Tough Love but is more just an Ego thing

"There is no "let's see who's better" lower Vit always plays backup unless there's a problem".
Convienience actually,
But i would advice to allow the other start and ask him to switch if one recognizes a deficit

The same problems you (Canopi) reffer are the same problems Black addreses, your lack of comprehensive reading lead you to a misconception of the nature of the assumptions in Black possition, thus youtrying to bring it backwards is just reproducing the same problem in another direction

It is your emotional biased response which helps prove my points whereas you might see otherwise,

Double tick, positioning, timing and individual power consumption DOES make a difference

POWER REGENERATION is a Team Component, it should be in the concern of all the team, addressing the whole process and not just limited to POT

If i was with you for 30 min in a raid, it WAS a waste,

It's against my agenda to Carry out Wannabe Pros, to whom you help and then they feel entitled to demand whatever exploit comes in their minds; amusing themselves of hacking a content for which they are merely overgeard;

Imagine that!

You can't even get a value that is already visible,
You can't test the true performance of a player,
You have no clue to determine the potential of the team

And yet think "I would rock as long as someone else..."

If Brick is Out, you at least DO KNOW what my power is, right?

Its already out,
You asking for it only proves you can't use it,
you don't know how to read it
and/0r have no clue what it is for

Sigh... you attempted to correct me for no reason. Of course skill always plays a role, but generally higher VIT gives more power. The bigger the VIT, the bigger the Pot. This rule goes FIRST since it's automatically assumed that a player knows how to play his role. THEN if higher VIT is doing a bad job something must change. Your comment about constant 150 being better than 400 whenever was pointless and unnecessary. Your whole argument is based on "what if the other troll is better than the one with higher VIT?" You proved no point here and I don't see why you tried to correct me. You would have been better off saying that sometimes a lower VIT troll can outplay a higher Vit troll. Still woulda been an obvious and unnecessary comment, but better than your tear about a hypothetical situation in which skill makes lower VIT play better. PoT rule still stands as does no overwirting... you took your time to do this because....??????

EDIT: and lol about I haven't done the math and bla bla bla. You picked the wrong one for that bs, I love arguing Besides you really said nothing that wasn't already implied or that wasn't naturally a given smh. Go TRY to teach someone else

BTW I been playing this game since fos was the hardest raid. I know wtf a double tick is. Smarmy *** comment makin mofo smh