Scoreboard adjustments

I think i might have been in that same run. Or atleast the same thing happened to me the other day (dont remember it was on friday or thursday).
Omniraid for 2x SM, USr, dude ask for 3O adds feat, 1 dude almost ruined it even tho it was asked to stop burning several times and only stopped when the others begin to talk about kicking him. Luckly, the feat pop for those who needed it.

When we got to the Soldier fight, dude was like "Can i burn now?" like if he was somekind of almighty burner...and at the end of the raid he wasnt even close to the top.

Yea that I think that’s as the same one haha. I was on one of my farmer toons for the sweet 50 SMs lol. I’ll chalk it up for them not reading chat or something. Just glad it popped for everyone. Other than that it was a smooth run at least.

No. The only "right" you have regarding another player is to ignore them. That way, you don't have to play with someone who doesn't play the way you want them to, you don't have to accept whatever it is that you decide they "believe", and you don't have to edit your post in an attempt to insult them.

I have the "right" to start a vote to kick their sorry a** out of the instance, if the way they play is detrimental to the general effort. You have the "right" to play solo. That way you don't have to conform to the expectations of other players, who may not appreciate their time being wasted.

Their best? Probably not. Not their absolute best, but then we don't really get that now, do we? But don't forget, even without the scoreboard, other players can see what equipment you're using, and what level/rank it is. Many of them would still be ranking up their arts to 200. And yeah, they'd be doing enough to level themselves, if for no other reason than they want to be able to play Elite and E+ so they can get that cool Elite gear.

I mean, we could go the other way... Instead of those giant 4 panels that give the roughest of rough breakdowns, go into more detail: who used the most pets/trinkets, and what percentage of their "Most damage" was due to their pets/trinkets/consumabes, how much was due to controller buffs, how much was due to PI, and so on. And a section showing who did the most to actually beat the instance, turning cogs or doing other mechanics -- and put that above the boss damage. Maybe have a "Hall of Shame on that page, as well, showing the names of everyone who did nothing but burn, or those who continued to burn, even when the boss was invulnerable. Or just do away with that "MVP" page entirely and go directly to the breakdown page, instead.

For the record, I'm not saying the scoreboard should be removed entirely. It's too late, the people who obsess over that sort of thing are used to having it and would scream bloody murder if it went away. I advocate allowing players to turn it off on their own toons if they don't want it popping up in their faces, or if they just don't care who was able to mash buttons the best.

That is not true at all both eso and ffxiv don't have scoreboards and both have 10x the subscriptions over dc .the scoreboard has created a elitist set of players which feeds into the worse type of players that has chased most people away from mmo's. the get gud players. I will also mention that for the community's are more friendly and they get more players that play all 4 levels of difficulty of missions because every one trys to avoid mechanic. Do you get that in final fantasy you would get chewed out for always ignoring mechanics because your making a healer stop damage to heal you when its not necessary

Yeah, maybe if the top damage guy had no pickups or cog turns, instead of 'Most boss Damage' it could say 'Well, he's got the Pew-Pew down at least'.

And yes... the trend of having to carry 2, 3 or 4 bombs solo into the shield is getting all too common. I was in a run of reg the other night as tank and it was going so slow with 1 guy carrying them I just started going over there and doing it. I guess people are too busy in inventory swapping artis to hit an invulnerable shield to pick up a few bombs.

I don't know what "absolute best" means, so I don't know if we get that now, or if that's even necessary, or possible. All I want is for people to adequately contribute to the effort of beating the instance in a timely fashion. And the numbers on the scorecard, combined with the inspect function (which many players hate as well) is a reasonably accurate representation of player ability, at least as far as their role-relevant output is concerned. Equipment doesn't mean much by itself - a lot of times I see people with top CR and 200 meta arts, whose relevant output is abysmal. And you can get the equipment with fairly little effort or skill, especially if you have the time, or friends/league willing to carry you through content.

And what do you do once you have that "cool Elite gear"? What's your motivation to do anything more than press a button once in a while, just so people don't see you idly standing around? Why learn your powerset, grind SP, optimize your build, practice your rotation, etc, if at the end of the day it's either "yay, we all won, everybody's equally awesome", or "ow, we all lost, we all suck", pretty much regardless of what you do. Sure, some people would do their best even without the risk of being perceived as bad/lazy players by their peers - but many wouldn't. Some already don't, but at least you can easily spot them within minutes of starting the run and get rid of them, if the run requires better performance.

At least with roles like healer or tank, of which there's usually only one in a group, there are immediate consequences to playing poorly - people die, the group wipes, et cetera. With DPS nobody can tell what you're actually doing most of the time, so with no score-card there would be a lot more instances going slowly and damage checks failing, and there would be no way to tell what's wrong or how to improve. And the obvious solution would be - kick the player with the lowest gear. Or don't accept those players when making groups, just to minimize the risk of failure. You may say that's already happening, but it could get much, much worse.

And I'm not sure it would encourage many people to play solo roles, which make it immediately obvious, if they're not doing their jobs well, if they could just go in as one of many DPS and hide their incompetence, or laziness in the crowd, hoping someone else will pick up the slack, or be blamed if the burn is not good enough.

Personally, I would like as much data as possible, but at certain point overload of information becomes impractical to handle and confusing to most players. What does it matter if the player did some of their damage using trinkets, or consumables? Or what PI they used? Those things are fairly marginal, in the grand scheme of things - nobody doubles your damage just because of PI, or trinkets. Controller buffs and debuffs would be more useful, but I have no idea how that could be calculated and represented.

As for what's above what and who's the "MVP" - I couldn't care less. I never see that page, my scorecard always opens on the chart tab. We already have pickups on the card and mechanics are not just a single thing that's easily quantifiable. You'd want the number of cog interactions on there? Sure, it probably wouldn't hurt to have them, but there are plenty mechanics that don't work that way, while a lot of the time doing the cogs is pointless, or even detrimental, depending on the situation. Farming damage can occasionally also be pointless, or detrimental, but you can't really have a role called "Damage Per Second" and not include damage output on the card.

Just because people are used to something it doesn't mean it can't be changed, if the change would benefit the game - look at the stat clamp and people still screaming bloody murder because of it years later. The thing is - I don't see much benefit from removing the score-card, while I can see a lot of potential negative consequences.

I wouldn't care if there was an option for people to not see it, but I seriously doubt, that that's the actual problem people have with it. If you really don't want to see anyone's numbers, simply switch it to the feat page and when it pops up next time - for example at the end of a run - that's what you'll see. Problem solved... (?)

That sucks, some people can be idiots in this game. Best to just add to ignore, and never run with em again.

On a funny note though, I have a couple guys in my league that are super competitive, but in a friendly, respectful way. One raid one of these guys went down and no one picked him up (we told him he didn't have a Cog above his head, even though he did lol) Someone had posted the video on our discord, and he seen the Cog above his head LOL. He still hasn't let that one go!

That’s not true thou. Scoreboards don’t turn people into elitist. These players exist in every game no matter how large or small. Heck warframe has a scoreboard and has a pretty good community. And those games have more subscribers for the simple reason that they are bigger brands for MMOs. Dcuo is a niche IP within a niche game type. Not to mention other MMOs have far more freedom to what content they can make. Trying to say that dcuo is smaller because of a scoreboard is simply not true at all.

Yes everyone has a right to play how they want. However in an MMO if someone ques for a role with absolutely no intention on doing said role for the sole purpose of skipping the Que than they do deserve to get kicked. If the group decides they want a role and decide to kick said player than they also have the right to play the game with each role.

I think that some need to see the difference between the meanings of the words "right" and "privilege" before I can discuss this further. To me, a "right" is irrefutable, while a "privilege" is something that is granted to you, and can be taken away by, say, a bit of recoding of the game or the forums. Nothing I have said contradicts this.

At any rate, the concept put forward in my original post still stands: that it would be better if we had an option to shut off the scoreboard for our own screen if desired.

You can do that already. When on the scorecard, switch to the feat page, then close it. From then on - until you switch it back - whenever the scorecard pops up, all you will see will be a list o feats, so you don't have to look at the scary numbers.

I wasn't aware of that, but it really does seem just as intrusive. It isn't the information on the scoreboard that irks me, it's the screen itself popping up.

Thanks for the info, though.

I don't blame him! lol.

There's been plenty of discussion already, both on this thread, and others, about players who don't do anything but their rotations on the boss, so I'm going to skip that part of the discussion.

Yeah, it's not about not wanting to see the numbers, it's about not being interrupted by the window popping open. I ran the Kahndaq raid last night, and I had to sit there waiting for the stupid scoreboard to pop, because I knew as soon as I tried to do anything, it would pop up just in time to interrupt me. I had to wait nearly a minute, but I knew it was coming, and the game has trained me to know the stupid thing is going to wait until I try to do something.

Now, if I cared what it had to say, that would be tolerable, maybe. But I don't, and I would rather turn it off. I don't think it's a huge ask, and I don't get why there's pushback from other players on the idea. I'd say it's just because they want their "victory" in every else's faces, but I know from the Mozilla and Microsoft help forums that, for whatever reason, some users just can't stand the fact that other people don't like a feature they themselves love, and that someone would want to turn it off (or conversely, can't stand a completely optional feature that can easily be turned off, and that someone else would want to have it).

Again, not remove the scoreboard, just allow those of us who don't want it to turn it off on our own screens.

Based upon LowFlyingMoon's info, I went back in to actually look at the scoreboard screen and saw that there are 4 options already listed at the top of it. I seems to me that a fifth "Disable popup" tab wouldn't be that hard to patch in.

As I said - I wouldn't mind the option being there. In fact I might use it myself, because I can and often do bring up the scorecard manually and the fact, that it interrupts chats, or whatever else I'm trying to do before other players leave the instance can be annoying. On the other hand - it helps to have a clear indication that the instance is over, especially when people are running Omnibus for weekly rewards, or trying to get certain feats, like those based on the number of completed instances. If you leave before the scorecard pops up, you don't get the credit.

Surely the reward choice popup covers that (?).

It doesn't. The rewards usually drop before the scorecard, especially if there's an ending cutscene. If you leave after getting your reward, but before scorecard, the instance isn't finished, doesn't count towards your weekly omnibus, et cetera and the group gets the option to reopen the instance for matchmaking.