Was wondering if and when there will be adjustments made with the troll role not over riding Tank CCs. It isn't enough that the community has placed certain requirements and exclusions regarding the troll role, but now has placed yet another requirement for the troll in relation to troll stuns. Will there be any changes made to where the troll CCs do not immune tank pulls? Before someone says..."Get the BOP artifact, problem solved". It isn't enough that players want their buffs...now they want to add another artifact which is really a gimmick artifact to troll effectively. It's really gotten to the point where I am very selective to who I troll for. List of community requirements: Amulet of Rao-Always Scrap of the Soul Cloak- Swap Artifact Parasite's Power Harness- Swap Artifact COG- Swap Artifact Tetra- Swap Artifact Claw- Swap Artifact Then add BOP All of the above...and then the DPS arts: Depending on playstyle, power, and swap ability: Solar Amplifier Strategist Card Transformation Card Dead Kings Amulet and/or Ebon I know there has been discussion in combining some of the artifacts listed above...but, please for the love of all that is holy....don't add another one. (I'm artifact drunk) . Just adjust the CC effects that doesn't immune tank pulls.....thanks.
I have two suggestions for this issue as it keeps annoying me too, albeit from the other side of the struggle: 1) remove all dominance from controller gear and make their shields scale with vitalization to compensate the shield strength they'd lose. OR (since that approach would likely cause a riot, even though I think it would be for the best) 2) go the Quantum route for each controller power and change one set of debuffs to not have ANY cc effects. That way they could still keep adds in check if needed when paired with a true trash tank, but leave me and other decent tanks alone with their endless immunity donations!
I am at the point where I don't like trolling any more..although I enjoy it and have been doing it since 2012. Most don't realize any non-passive power a troll throws for debuff has some sort of CC ability..which tends to over ride tank pulls for some reason. Although I wouldn't be a fan of lowering the ability for a troll to CC, as it can come in handy when there are more ads than a tank can reasonably handle..(sometimes that pesky ad can get into the group and cause issues)...I would be open to any change at this point.
The tank or troll (one of the 2, but probably the troll) should just be able to ignore the CC immunity adds can get. No more infighting between both roles, and if the troll gets the immunity ignore, that's one more thing for the role to do besides being a battery or an inventory manager.
I get people do it. But you don’t need to for elite or higher. Especially for troll or tanking. If someone wants to pay for my arts, then I will. But I’m not gonna have 6 arts just to troll. That’s insane.
The problem is with how CC immunities are granted - they don't care about the source, just the effect. Having them care about who has CC'd what is probably a major headache. To do what you suggest in the current setup would mean that one of the Roles would simply completely ignore immunity effects, which is a major change to the game, and not one I'd personally welcome. Some tinkering with the way some Tank pulls override lesser pulls might be the way to go without major changes, but that's generally only one one power per Power, and is situationally swapped in and out on loadouts, whereas CC immunity is a constant in combat, and would need to be there 24/7. I don't have any great solutions off the top of my head that don't bring some kind of loadout burden with them .
OR....there's my requirement....'Tell me what arts to use or that I have to swap, and I'll wave goodbye'. FWIW, My trolls do fine, in elite even (can't say I've done any E+....buf F' E+ anyway), and I'll run Rao, Claw and Tetra. If I see that the heal or tank is power pig and struggling, I'll do one swap to put parasite in for cog to get back dumps. If anyone requires more than that...Guess I'll leave and you can find a new troll more to your liking.
Controller role has been dragged through the dirt for too many years...SMH I remember when Tanks and Controllers understood that the two roles were a team and had to protect one another. Not anymore.
This might be the worst "solution" I've read. We're called controllers, let's not get rid of our ability to do that entirely. Even running with league tanks, there are fights we decide beforehand as to whether they want help stunning or not. For some tank power sets, their moves that maintain their survivability (jackhammer, atomic aura) are CC moves. For HL trolls, the majority of our options have CC on them. I don't think we should have to decide how we don't screw the other over. I think they have shield "types" already where they overwrite if they're the same type, but don't otherwise. Why can't they do something similar with CC? If they break out from panic, immune from panic for X seconds, but not other CC types like stun, knockdown, root, encase, etc.
Doesn’t that go against what is being requested? At this moment trolls and tanks have to work together to make sure enemies aren’t given immunity. IE they have to work together and not against each other. (Fyi this is not a statement of my supporting or rejecting any statements about the topic)
It's a rather straight forward solution. The dominance cap on instances has been far too low, controllers & tanks pass it by accident and if a player is wearing multiple OP items they are near passing the dominance cap. For Elite and Elite+ content the cap should be raised to a point a controller would have to specifically spec into dominance to be able to CC. It would require some sacrifices for the buff troll role where they couldn't take the dom augments, but if they wanted to spec dom augments they can simply use BOP at that point. If by default controllers could pass the cap then playstyles could open back up again with the controller negatively impacting the tanks. This is only a concern for Elite and Elite+ as in Event and Regular there isn't anything strong enough to kill most tank setups so having npcs breakout early is inconsequential. A sliding scale of dominance cap, just like the clamped content can be added. Before any controllers say "well I want to be able to stun, that's my role, I'm a controller" no, that isn't your role. That was your role 2012-2017 before breakout profiles and hard stuns were ruined.
You know, my Fire toon used to be Gadgets for about a year and then Quantum for about two years. I've exclusively played Healer or DPS before that. First time I ever thought about CC, Immunities etc. at all was in FFE I think, as Gadgets, when the tank asked me to only stun the add on one side once, and then leave them alone for the rest of the fight. It was a smooth run and I got curious, asked them afterwards about that request and have been given the basic explanation of it all. Later during the first StU, my then Healer went Ice (now Rage) and over time I understood what that Tank back then explained to me better and better as I've noticed that the majority of elite adds gave me massive anxiety as Ice with most controllers, yet in alerts and some odd Raid runs without any Controller, it wasn't near as bad. For the longest time I couldn't figure out what made those few runs with Controllers so different until I hit test server and tried out every Controller power and found Quantum's Time Shift and Warp Barrage. Absolute godsends! The healing debuff/sc generator, I forgot its name, still stuns though, so there always was the option if really needed. Otherwise I tried to avoid crowd control as much as I could, and instead made sure to buff all the things and keep everyone powered as I thought and still think that's way more beneficial to the tank and the whole group for that matter, than fighting with the tank and making their job harder than it needs to be. The majority of Controllers doesn't seem to have any such experiences or thoughts and just spam their debuffs as if they're trying to be a dps, constantly stunning, scattering, encasing or pushing adds around and giving them non-stop Immunity while I try to keep them all bunched up and juggled. Think of adds like Parademon Nightmare/Maniacs or those Apex Predator chargers, that'll jump the group when they can, sometimes with devastating consequences - that doesn't happen when I have CC supremacy but always will once they get immunity. So there, that's the context behind my suggestions (plural), first one was the totalitarian approach very much in line with my biases. Second one, which you don't seem to have read over the sheer outrage the first one seems to have caused, is a far more moderate approach. You say we shouldn't have to strategize about how not to screw each other over and I don't disagree, that's why the Quantum route seems the easiest (I'm not saying best). Least amount of work required for a great potential outcome. Giving every controller power one set of completely cc-free debuffs gives CHOICE at the very least. Maybe you Controllers shouldn't get so hung up on the word itself, as it's the equivalent to rose-tinted nostalgia glasses; actual crowd control is clearly not your job in the majority of circumstances nowadays and still insisting on it only makes it needlessly harder for everyone.
It is something that is unique to them and doesn't totally screw the team if they're not so great it. Some people want the battery days back...I can still hear the screams of "MORE POWER!" from people, regardless of whether they need it or not. Heck, I've actually heard it in a pug raid in the last couple of months, though it was obviously that individual's fault since no one else was having power problems (offhand, I don't think anyone else's power bar ever dipped below 50%). I'm not a troll but that kind of crap has almost made me leave a few instances, though thankfully the rest of group usually got the screamer under control. As for the CC issues, that contributes to the tank shortage, imo. The overlap makes it hard to justify both in anything but raid content.
I can't edit my previous post anymore, so I'll just quote you again. After thinking a little bit about it in the shower, I just wanted to add a few thoughts: That wouldn't change much if anything. At best Controller cc stuns adds in place, but what'd be the point of that? In most cases the Tank will have them pulled and bunched up, a brief extra stun isn't going to do anything. Besides it'd interfere with the Chronosomething Emitters, leaving this suggestion meaningless for many Tanks in part of their cc rotation. At worst (and from the top of my head seemingly more commonly) they scatter adds all over the place. Again, needlessly so. From what I can tell, a ton of Controller CC is about as counterproductive as the Lasso art as used by the majority of Tanks I've seen. I don't like either, but wouldn't condemn Controllers as it's a huge fault with the game, not the players. I wholeheartedly stand by all of this, will even die on this hill, because managing adds as a Tank is the most zen-like experience in this game in my opinion, as I've come to realize in the previous DLC's alert. That is until a Controller comes along and dishes out immunity left and right. Perhaps they should retire the name Controller and call it something like Strategist, Overseer, Bard or something; remove all dominance from your gear but give your powers an array of debuffing, buffing and power-healing properties so all those artifacts won't be a necessity but a bunch of figurative cherries on the cream. In turn they could ramp up general power cost to make Controllers more sought after, give enemies and/or Bosses some significant self/group-buff abilities that could be nullified by Controllers' debuffs or vice versa with debuffs on players that Controllers could weaken/nullify. And give every Controller power an equivalent to Gadget's Something Decoy, albeit always overwritten by Tank aggro, to help with adds a Tank can't pull immediately or outright oversees. I'm just spitballing here; anything to hopefully have it sound engaging while also stopping them messing with CC and making things harder for Tanks.
I did read both your points in your first post by the way though maybe I didn't make it abundantly clear in my first post. I don't think the solution should be "make it so controllers don't take CC moves". I'm starting to believe most people in this game have never run with a controller that actually knows the same thing about CC & immunity that you've explained to me. I'm quite aware of how the stuns/immunity work. I know what you can do as the different tank powers to effectively juggle infinitely. I know which adds are infinitely stunnable by any CC (think the bot in SM, or the drainers in Rock of Eternity). There are some things that are easier for a Controller to do than a Tank - I can throw that bot in SM in an Entrap ball and effectively leave it in the back of the room never to be heard from again, while if the tank has it, it'll die and they'll have to look out for it while tanking the boss again and again. There are a few other instances where that same idea is in effect. Are they few and far between? Sure, I'll agree with that. And that's a design flaw numerous controllers have been pointing out since at least War of the Light. My point is, instead of going the totalitarian route as you mentioned, I'd like to see an approach that's more inclusive of both roles. There are times when a controller with their long-ranged CC can hit an add going toward the healer to stun it before a tank can grab it. Taking away their ability to do that entirely seems like a far worse idea than pushing the developers to come up with a way that the two roles aren't competing against each other on CC effects.
When I tank with a controller, I usually politely send a tell to the controller asking them to limit, or if possible, don't stun the adds. As a fire tank, I have a juggle playstyle, and if the adds get immunity earlier than I intend or expect, it can really mess me up, and get me killed if I don't react fast enough. I don't blame the controllers though, it's just a bad game design, and I would like the devs to address it somehow.
