TIL: The Clamp clamps your stats more the higher your CR is

Yes...that's the worst that can happen. Because if a simple increase in EG CR lowers your stats in EEG, that's 100% the opposite of what would seem to be what they have been saying for 2 years. Not 100% sure how losing stats with better gear equates to 'feeling powerful', but even if it's 1 less might than prior to the CR bump, by definition, that's 'less powerful'.

Personally I believe, by the way it's been communicated, it is indeed NOT working as intended and should be looked at. Again, assuming that repeat testing proves out the claims of the OP.

No, it is useless as it adds nothing to the discussion and could have easily not been made had you not entered the thread since your post makes it look like you are sick of seeing "clamp" threads. I've been avoiding them myself as I'm tired of the discussion and know neither side will budge, but I made this one because it didn't have the usual intent of "remove the clamp" so many other threads have.

edit:

And hey, I even added to your humour with my own sarcastic response about the Guinness World Records.

Well, once we can get passed CR stat being the primary source of what "powerful" should be, I think we would all be able to move on amicably...but, somehow, after years of that mentality..and the Devs trying to reverse that trend v. the amount of posts and threads made about it....I don't see a conclusion in the near future.

Except you were the first response to this thread and didn’t even take the time to read what the OP was saying. This is not the typical “stat clamp needs to go” or “stat clamp is the best thing ever introduced in any videogame” type of thread where it’s just complaining or praising for the sake of doing so. This thread was created with numbers, evidence, and followed up with questions in hopes to clarify on some of the issues. Are people supposed to not bring up potential problems because it’s a touchy subject for some ppl?

Quick Tip: Start asking questions about the Video folks. It isn't fake or doctored or anything like that, but it does show you exactly why this is happening. Its not a bug, stats aren't being stolen from you, you just need more specific info from the OP.

And I've said a few times, I'd be fine with it being 'flat'. An increase in CR not really adding anything to your clamped stats. It's reversing them that's my issue....if that's what's happening. Assuming you never added another SP, grew an augment or arti or did anything besides change your gear, you should cross the 'clamp' threshold (+15 or whatever) and nothing would ever change...higher or lower. You know....be 'clamped' at that level till the end of time.

What? You think that the problem is not equipping the new gear that got opened? That was already asked and answered.


I'm still left with the same downgraded stat. You can even test this yourself, do a random mission from the new episode, get some new random gear and go switch between new and old, and see that your stats don't change based on just equipping them if neither are OP gear or making the elite bonus go away.

I would be fine with that...which would leave no questions about stat scaling which I have a feeling (theoretically) is what we are facing here.

Ok, so did some testing...(shhhh...don't tell work)...and it's not quite as shown in the OP's video, at least at a very base level.

Using a low level farmer toon, who I didn't mind F'ing with, I did some testing. It was starting 381 CR, and besides flight, weapons, crits and 5 points in health (not sure why), it had 40 points into Might/Power. That did not change until late in this process. As I was only concerned with the effect of the CR change, I removed his augs and artis for the full comparison. So the changes here are ONLY in gear. On, then off, then upgraded, then off again. Now he does have some generator mods in, and I have some league buffs up, but those were NOT changing during this process, so they would apply to every iteration I tried. I did put partial gear in to see what CRs at the cap at 88 and slightly over it at 108 looked like, as noted below.

Location/gear___________ SP in M/P _Effective CR _Health_____ Power___ Might___ Prec
HOL with gear on 381 CR_____40 _____381______ 224757___ 157557 __124220_ 54224
HOL with gear off ___________40 _____ 0 _______ 21229_____ 986_____ 7371___ 1394
MCT with gear off ___________40 _____ 60 _______5531_____ 3447____ 2825___ 1272
MCT with gear on 381CR_____40 _____ 88_______7010 ______3930 ____3426 ___1617
MCT with +1 CR 382_________40 _____ 88_______7010 ______3930 ____3426 ___1617
MCT with +5 CR 386_________40 _____ 88 _______7009 ______3928 ___3426 ____1617
MCT with gear off (386 CR)___40 ______ 60_______5530 ______3446 ____2825 ___1272
MCT with 88 Cr of gear______ 50 ______ 88_______ 5530______ 3477_____2851 __1275
MCT with 108 CR of gear _____50 _____ 88 _______5530 ______3477 ____2851 ___1275
MCT with gear off + 10 SP M/P 50______ 60 _______5530 ______3447 ____2851 ___1272
MCT with gear on +10 SP M/P 50 ______ 88 _______7009 _____3963 ____3457 ____1671

All these were done in Manhiems T1 Solo. The gear I was using was SOBA drops I had in my inventory. No elite, TC or OP gear. Most was purple, but a few blues too.

Frigging page pulled my formatting, but basically it's working like I was assuming, save a very few points that do go negative for some reason. With a +5 CR increase to 386, Health dropped 1 point and power dropped 2. Assuming that these numbers don't skew way worse as you get to higher CRs, I'd say that's an anomaly...but it IS a indeed a drop....however insubstantial at T1 a least. Not worth making a federal case over it though. I'll let someone else blow up one of their mains to test endgame numbers. Maybe I'll visit that test later on. Not saying Ryzan is wrong, but at least at base levels...for CR changes only, there is minimal loss as a direct result...or none. Which again, was how I was assuming it worked the last 2 years.

I also had 10 SP held back so the final 2 iterations were with +10 into Might and Power, which by the buff description should have added 1% plus some base might and power, and might went up 26(a little less than 1%) without gear on, and power went up 1(more like .1%). When I put the 386 gear back on, the gain was 31 might(again, less than 1%) and 35 power(this time much closer, but still short of 1%).

And I'm not agreeing with this, or saying any of it is 'good'....but it is how they made it sound, so for that...I'm satisfied it's in the ballpark.

PS...if you are trying to read this on a phone....sorry. I had it all in, the pasted and it went kablooie and I wasn't going to delete it after 20 min of taking notes.

Interesting, so for low sp characters it isn't as much of a change (but it still exists). This makes me more at peace with my "Team D Tier". This is more of an issue for maxed out people then.

Yeah, I was going to take a toon I have at 397 with over 700 SP and do something in at least the WV solo....but I want to go home at some point today too. Maybe later.

So it does appear to scale upward or downward based off of leveling stats(as a whole cr + stats from other sources). I am assuming it is to make sure we aren't overpowered in lower content, and I am assuming the stats will scale also based off of which ever tier the player is playing in also. I am fine with that, because it isn't such a huge stat adjustment to really make a big difference. It also does look like the the bleed through is working based on the last two test ranges when adding SP, which again is based off of what the Devs said they intended to do to make those stats matter more than what they have in the past.

Yes. I'm fine (as far as I can be fine with the clamp at all) with how that works. My only objection, in regards to this discussion, was the fact that what the OP was showing appeared that a +CR equated to negative stats when clamped. At least at a low level, that appears not to be true. I said that early on...I'd expect +CR to have no effect on clamped stats(up or down), as the clamp should flatten the stats at whatever point it kicks in(in this case, 88CR)....which appears to be the case.

I'll put up a similar 'graph' if I do some testing with a different, more equipped/statted toon and see if it holds true at high level.

Sounds good, this has really peaked my interest. Unfortunately, I only have one toon that is geared with high enough stats from other sources to provide good feedback test on that I have already leveled beyond the point of where a good test may be provided. I do agree that a flat stat should be provided in clamped content instead of wondering if scaling is working as intended..Truth be told...even if it was slightly off..I don't think it wouldn't matter much to a hill of beans..if there wasn't a snowball effect moving forward. Beyond that, I am sure the Devs have been adjusting accordingly...but, human error is always going to be a factor...

With that said, and applying the human error factor, I see no reason to grab the pitchforks and torches over trivial stat amounts when content is easily moved through without much effort at all aside from the periodic group that can't be bothered with mechanics.

Wow. I never realized this, but now that you point it out it makes a lot of sense.

We need to get a dev on this for sure.

I mean, from your own testing we can see that it is true, it's an insignificant enough value in Tier 1, but it still happens. My alts can rest peacefully knowing they won't get weaker (significantly), and XXbatman27XX won't be getting more and more difficult to carry.

Everything in this thread so far was only tested in Tier 1 though. The tiers don't all progress your stat piercing in the same percentage amount, as I found out last year when Sins of Black Adam launched.

The following table shows my stat increase of when I was CR 378, and it compares the gains in each clamped tier from the SP increase alone (from 325 max to 340 max). I didn't know CR had an impact on it, so these values were achieved in the last day of LoD and the first day of SoBA. This was originally posted here:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...at-clamp-already.324335/page-110#post-4538876


The might values here are accomplished while wearing Legion of Doom augments, which grant 4% extra might everywhere in the game due to their Statistical Recalibration perk. At the time, I thought every new augment would come with that perk since LoD was the second one with it.

Comparing myself now to how I was during LoD, shows me there was no meaningful stat progression in clamped content.

Remembering that those values are with Statistical Recalibration on. Which btw, isn't the cause of the scaling down that's going on, as I also tested my jump from CR401 to 402 and 403 without it, and weirdly, the jump to 402 saw absolutely no stat changes in any tiers, whereas the jump from 402 to 403 saw changes happen again:


I'm now really just waiting for my CR to hit the max limit of this episode, but that's gonna take a while since I never reset instances or buy them.

I'm kind of wondering if there is some type of reflection on total stat points applied vs. just the 355 in the primary stat? (I.E. 600 SP with a weapon point spent, movement tree spent, crit bonuses spent, then primary stat filled out v. just 355 maxing out the primary stat). I realize that is a reach, but want to make sure all avenues are cleared.

This is the reason, I would be for a flat stat clamp that is static regardless of CR differential to avoid any misconceptions or hurt feelings about stat scaling in clamped content. (I.E. 378 and 400+) are brought to the same stats...and then the difference in other stats obtained are added...which makes the difference between the two.

However, as said before, their intention was for us to still feel powerful while not able to just be able to blow through a mechanic or just one shotting everything. Which at that point...even just flattening the clamp...while we add SP moving forward will effectively be the opposite of what the overall intention is...which is to make sure we aren't capable of just simply burning through the entire concept of a mechanic based run. I think we might be seeing that now as more stats are added to the game.

As I said, I was just doing basic 'gear only' testing, just to see that additional gear increases did or did not have an impact. And yeah, T1 only was limited testing(I was still 'working' technically)....I'll have to try again later with T6 at least to get the opposite side of the story. I also didn't have a pre-static baseline. If every DLC that comes out, they will be re-adjusting the cap at the lower tiers, yes...that is constantly moving the bar so that in the end, you can't progress much...or worse, could end up losing ground.

It's not a reach at all. I wondered that too when I saw for the 1st time that I had less stats. I went and spent the remaining SP on random things at the time to still see no changes even after a requeue.

A few days ago I properly respecd with the might maxed out on 355, and the rest spent properly on weapons, movement, crits, iconics and other stats. Those stats shown with CR401 and above are with everything this way.

Then it is either a bug, and should be reported...or....it is a natural adjustment to ensure that stat piercing isn't overpowered. Considering this thread hasn't been moved or addressed by the Devs 4 pages in, as Mepps has been on since the thread was started....my bet is that we are seeing results from the latter over the former.