I love DCUO so can you remove the stat clamp already?

Remember, I'm just saying general statements about my personal perspective on what is occuring on the Xbox server. Also defending blatant exaggerations about pre-clamp. Sure, the clamp might force players to learn mechanics now, but that means absolutely nothing if players rather just skip the content entirely or even just quit the game after realizing the -possibly- overwhelming grind ahead. It is what it is, but it's just sad seeing the direction everything is going except players just embracing the changes. I didn't realize how bad it was getting until I tried to help players "Q-drop" for omnibus and it didn't even pop for over 20 minutes, or when I try to form tough feat groups and players say "why bother?" Before everything, feat groups were so plentiful and fun. I feel like there should be more incentive to make SP more desirable or "great again".

For the discussion Deity posed....no. New players have been clamped since they joined if under 1 year. Unclamped carry runs do not apply to them.

You can’t be serious.

You’re acting as if everything being discussed are a part of different games. Everything is connected. You can pretend to be blind on that simple fact but it’s true.

If a new player joins the game and gets carried without learning much. Will that player be prepared for EG? Yes or no? The answer is no. Yes the player may have the gear for it and maybe they spent money on arts and allies but pure stats are not the determining factor in a players ability to complete content. Above all else is a players skill and knowledge. This is a pure and simple fact that no one can factually argue. Want proof? Look at the number of players that struggle in a duo where you can beat it by just lunging,

Further more said player being unprepared for EG where no one wants to teach ends up getting thrown into a mess. Doing things they shouldn’t do and messing up raids. These players get kicked or belittled. Now the player either continues to be ignorant, avoids raids, or leaves the game for the toxic behavior of the game.

Everything in the game is connected cause guess what? It’s the same game. Shocker I know. Anti clampers say they shouldn’t have to show anyone how to play the game and the game should do it. The make changes to force players to learn the game and the world is ending. Players getting chased from the game for reasons above and the game is dying threads pop up endlessly.

Sorry if the devs trying to keep the game alive inconveniences you. But you know what would be an inconvenience? The game shutting down.

Your discussions about the subject stem from Xbox. That’s not a clamp issue. The server population will eventually need to be addressed but making everything easy mode is not the solution.

And players quit for many reasons. Even before the clamp people had reasons to quit. So don’t act as if it’s the clamp that is the root cause

You know very well I was talking about new players while the game was unclamped. I clearly stated new players ignoring mechanics while unclamped. You are just being disingenuous

The plethora of bad players are, in part, due to unclamped EEG, no one is saying it's the only contributor but to suggest or imply it isn't a serious contributor borders on intense delusion or denial of objective truth. It absolutely does contribute towards creating bad players and this is in part why the clamp was introduced. For the record by the way also, the clamp was not introduced solely for this reason so don't interpret me pointing this one reason out as there not being other reasons also.

Again you're being purposefully obtuse, you know what the game was like and you know what the queues were like, denying that reality is simply laughable, but by all means keep up the charade.

The AQS would not have fixed it, Although I know why you want that, because it better suits your purposes of playing a multiplayer game in single player mode.

Do you honestly want to sit there and pretend like allowing players to all queue in by themselves in a multiplayer game is healthy for the community and game more widely... yeah okay Reinheld. A multiplayer game is designed to place people together, to play together, that's the entire intent of them, not having people off in little groups or playing by themselves while enabling them to do so.

Omnibus is about pushing people in to random content and filling gaps in the queue system, that is its purpose so yes, comply or don't use it - that's quite simple and no one is making you use it!

I didn't say it was you, but as you know and again you're purposefully ignoring the point, there were copious, copious complaints about the mark relevancy window and how much it sucked, it doesn't matter if you're happy when so many other people are complaining about it, funnily enough there were easily as many complaints about mark relevancy as there are about "clamp is evil", there were also just as many complaints about "overpowered gods are destroying my experience" complaints as there are "clamp is evil" - I know because I was always a part of the discussion LOL

Because despite the fact you don't seem to want to admit, despite it being basic math the previous reward was "objectively" and mathematically worse for the time you'd spend playing - again not rocket science despite you attempting to make it seem so.

It cannot be stressed more that your desire to "revert back to the old loot" system is actually worse for you, even when playing casually, you just can't seem to or simply refuse to see it because "better loot" doesn't suit the outright desire to just make the content easier, it's a justifiable trade off that you'd rather just not be there because its inconvenient to your argument so you put forth an illusion that the old system is better than it was by pretending others just "didn't know how to optimize it"; it doesn't matter how much you shine a turd, it's still a turd.

Acknowledged.

Honestly Reinheld, despite the fact I'll take you at your word, I am cynical of how much you actually bother teaching anyone at all, you self profess to have multiple accounts to the extent where you're clearly doing all you can to avoid interactions with others, you self admit to farming queues and instances that please your desire to minimize time spent and maximize yield. You clearly have multiple alts and accounts which drives this desire, which leads to me being cynical or any effort you truly put in to teaching anyone anything, but again I'll take you at your word, but at least understand why I'm a little cynical of it.

As for the not learning, we discussed this in the past at least, if not more than 65% of the global population are "visual learners", they had years and years and years of visually disregarding mechanics and stomping all over early end game and trivializing the content, irrespective and you're looking for vast improvements in just 12 months, this is a labor of love Reinheld, it's a slower process than that

And for the record in any case I would argue that despite the fact I still see a lot of idiots out there, for a lot of reason, there has also been a demonstrable improvement, At the start a lot of people for example weren't blocking in TSW etc, but they eventually learned, there's a lot of people that initially didn't block in STU content, or stop on reflects, they eventually learned. This is all player improvement driven directly by Omnibus, STU and the new EEG system - you can choose to deny if you like though.

Largely speaking I feel I've probably addressed a lot of this just above - also I've been around since launch Reinheld.

Why do people keep assuming this, I don't want the clamp to make feats harder for people, despite the fact that's obviously a by product. I want the clamp because its better for the game, content doesn't get trivialized, again it does make for better players and it does make the game more satisfying because it actually feels like a "game" not me just sleeping on the keyboard while beating content because I stirred in my sleep and hit a few buttons.

It is a better experience for the new players who aren't left to feel like bystanders in their own content because a god wants to hulk smash it and older players are better rewarded for the effort they put in to run old content outside of EG.

Are the feats harder than they would have been had the game remained unclamped? Absolutely!

Are the feats harder than they were when the content was new? Absolutely Not!

Are the feats easier clamped than they were when the content was new? Absolutely!

Is the content itself easier clamped than it was when it was new? Absolutely!

Is there therefore character progress even despite the clamp? Absolutely!

I've already stated in a previous message that of course it isn't the root cause. Numerous times. But you also can't neglect the fact that Xbox server exists and just ignore our problems because it's not your system/server of choice. As for "being carried teaches nothing", if we are still talking about Feats and SP, grinding to 500+ wether on "easy mode" or not... You are most likely going to learn a thing or two along the way. Eventually everyone has to buckle down and learn. If you are talking about gear... Well see above.

At risk of joining in what I think is a conflating of separate issues and to keep it brief with that in mind, I really do just think xbox needs to merge with the rest of us asap, as does the switch.

There's another thread about it, but realistically this game needs one account -cross platform, desperately.

It would be nice, but more unlikely than at least the system that was planned before Charon left that I would still at least hope for: easier cross-faction methods, as stated in my thread about it.
As for the topic of server merging, maybe switch, but not PC. I posted on other mentioned thread:
"As much as I desire the larger population, I would not want Xbox to merge with PC because of all the cheaters/macro users/speed hackers and overall broken economy. Maybe with Switch (or even the freak chance they separate PS from PC and merge only the consoles, even though I heard PS has its own share of cheaters and macro users now lately as well), but not PC dear God no it's a disaster over there. Just look at these threads going off about it lately."

And switch doesn't have updates until months later.

It's a lose-lose.

/Shrug

Oh forgot to add: but if it happens, I'll just have to deal with it. Much like this lovely clamp

Separating the PC population would no doubt kill it on the platform unfortunately.

It's a shame too because not all PC players of course cheat, in fact most don't it's just a bunch of #$%heads tend to spoil it for the rest and when you've got a game that seemingly struggles to protect itself against hacking abuse it tends to attract a few more of those less than desirable elements of human pond scum

Was that a bit brutal? lol

Of course it’s about feats. When it was first introduced and discussions on optional started it was asked if people would be ok if no leveling gear was received and the anti clampers were ok with it. Asked about marks and same thing. But as soon as feats were talked about then it became a problem. The majority who are anti clampers are only so because they want easy feats. Many will deny it but let’s face it. It’s the truth. No matter how you cut it the clamp was added for a reason. For all the complaining and adjustments that have happened the clamp as remained. Ever wonder why that’s the case? Anti devers claim its cause the devs hate everyone or they don’t know what they are doing or many things along those lines. But there’s a reason why most successful games have some sort of clamp set up.

At the same time they also can’t keep doing adjustments to the clamp itself since they will be right back to where it was before. So the only actual solution is for the anti clampers to actually go through content as see which areas are give actual trouble and report them for targeted adjustments. But most anti clampers won’t do that cause they don’t actual care about balance and just have “gimme gimme” mentalities.

Completely bang on the truth.

We always do this little dance in these threads (about the clamp) and the anti clampers will always deny feats as being the primary force behind their distaste for the clamp - but we all know the truth, it's so obvious, it's not even funny

The ultimate question always comes down to this:-

Yes a player should feel like they can progress, but to what extent should they progress and make the content they're circling back to easier.

That has always been the pressure point, it was the pressure point when I used to oppose the clamp and it remains the pressure point to this day even having switched to the opposing side (the funny thing is of course is that I know their arguments, I've run their arguments, they're ******** arguments lol, they're ******** because having change my mind, I know they're ******** )

Anti clampers believe that progress should amount to "melting ease, progress so intense it enables god mode"

Pro clampers believe that the progress should amount to a reasonable proportion and advocate the clamp is largely sufficient outside of any re-portable outliers as you've said.

And you're correct, anti clampers have no interest in looking for true outliers because they just want it all gone, they're not interested, at all, whatsoever in finding problems only to have that problem retain the compromise they're not prepared to accept in the first place.

Trying to keep the game alive?..like the game was on it's last leg before and somehow the only thing could save it was clamping old content..what a bunch of ****..

Let me tell you a couple things that you don't do if your game is on it's last leg (which this one wasn't)..you don't just say "we don't care if you sub or not" and you don't alienate a group of players that are already paying to play your game..

You're right about one thing though..they are trying to force players to play a certain way..just not for the reasons you think they are..you see, when they take away the effect your gear has, they force you down the more pay to win paths, like artifacts, allies, etc

You have it partially right. Feats are directly linked to our stats and due to that, there is this sentiment that they should be made accessible and not gatekeeped forever, because they are essential for our characters. It's not about wanting easy feats for the hell of it. They don't need to be made super easy, but they also shouldn't be obtainable by only being completely optimal. I've already said something similar before, but an old "sweaty" feat should be obtainable by "Mr. Average Joe with 200 arts but with mediocre loadout."

I'd bet my whole account that if feats only granted styles and titles, the anti-clamp threads would not even be common, and we'd only be having arguments about how people miss the "hack & slash" or the feel of "play as Superman."

Lol you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. They made the game f2p to increase the number players that could player. They made the clamp for a lot of reasons that I’ve stated multiple times. Your inability to comprehend the reasons does not automatically mean it’s to force players to pay for arts. But funny thing is that they even made artifacts even easier to get lol.

Nice try thou

Do I? Again...it's been a year. People are still terrible. You act like you have some "did run unclamped" and "didn't run unclamped" stats and percentages of how much people have improved...or not.

We have terrible players....fact. We've always had some amount of terrible players...fact. Some are since the clamp was put in...fact. The clamp has not done much...or enough...to make much of a difference in a year. If you don't believe that, run some honest omnis (solo...no friends) or random into TSW or SM. If you have some polling data about who all these players are and when they started...that's cool, share with the class please.

Besides...my reply to Proxy was about the fact I said I wasn't concerned with new players....as in 'f the new players' and he knows I was talking about not being concerned in regards to 'carries=bad players' argument. New players (if the clamp is doing anything) aren't being carried anymore....right?

Feats are not made for our characters. They are made for us to earn. Just like any achievement in any game. Look at games that have gear drop through rng and not buy buying them. Players literally have to fight there way too gear. I played bless unleashed for a short time and for some of the better pieces of gear you needed to do some of the harder dungeons and hope for rng to smile on you. And on top of that they had a runes system that meant that even if you did get what you needed you may not get the right runes.

So yes they are meant to be earned. That is the very reason why they have feats for different skill levels. There are feats you can get in event and normal and some in harder stuff. There are feats that you can out right bye. There are feats that all you have to do is kill things a certain amount of times. You are making it seem like people are trying to gatekeep the feats to make themselves feel special. That is not the point. I have already said it NUMEROUS times. If a certain feat or content is actually to much than report it and try to get that single content adjusted. Why should the clamp as a while be adjusted when it’s only certain instances that are an issue?

So as cruel as this sounds. If a player can not get a feat because they refuse to improve on their own skills than they do not deserve the feat.

Clearly doesn't understand what a video game is.

Actually there is already some reference points. Back when the endgame content was the fos raids and even the paradox waves the skill level of the community as a whole was better. And those were objectively harder raids. People went back and still struggled in the batman raids and the brainiac raids. And people improved and beat them. Yes some didn’t. But as a whole the community was better. Then stats started getting out of hand and players were able to stop trying to improve and rely on stats getting buffed.

So yes. There is already a comparison of what the game was like pre and post clamp.