Skill points are a pain!

Artifacts are an entirely different topic.

Honestly they are not.

Are artifacts stat points (SP) now? Did they somehow morph into SP? What exactly do artifacts have to do with whether or not you should be allowed to buy feats?

Why would it diminish the importance and value? I honestly think your achievement wouldn't be diminish... 1 you can't see what feat things you completed without something else (if you go to that extent to see what feat someone completed LOL) 2. if you were given the opportunity to buy feats it wouldn't be diminish it would be heightened with people having more reason to hit max without such of gap. I think more people would go for the harder to get feats if they knew that there was a Foundation of 350 to 400 sp from older content. Also, why are we getting Character boosters to about current dlc with only 100 or so sp? Thats because arts matter more than sp.

What sp was is what arts are now.

You wouldn't happen to have data to support that would you?

It should be very easy to gather the data, though I'm not sure if it can be verified.

Though I'm sure if it is factual it could be useful to others as to at what level does either become highly effective or experience a drop of some sort.

It would be great for a guide as well.

I'm going to throw this in the mix.

People who genuinely dislike something, will not like whatever that something does, any action by a person that is that something will be seen as not working for them, no matter what is done by whatever the something is will not get any pats on the back, and those associated with it will be treated with caution and hatred as the something or someone.

NOTE: Something=someone ( just a substitute instead of going back and adding the someone)

No, there's no were that's just make believe fairy stories in your own mind.

SP are what SP are

Artifacts are what artifacts are

Don't confuse the two as overlapping

They're individual aspects of a character.

Again as stated earlier in this thread and to somewhat beat a dead horse.

You don't need any more than the 70 odd SP provided in your boost to run any content in game, including the most relevant content your boosted too.

The only time you're going to feel it more is in elite content or the likes of extremely periodic content like survival mode.

If you're wanting to succeed in that content then I'd suggest you take the progress of your character more seriously and in any case, if you're an elite end game player, I'd highly suspect you already are.

If you're not playing elite then why do you even care about having the 400sp or whatever they have no meaningful impact on the type of content you're running anyway.

Notwithstanding any of that, you can literally walk through the old content and get a high degree of the feats your talking about. The only reason you ask to pay instead is because you're just blatantly unwilling to put in the effort of your predecessors.

You want to be given the same reward as them, but don't want to undertake the task, seriously again, why are you even playing at this point, because you quite literally seem to be hell bent on doing everything you can to avoid actually playing the game.

If you want the rewards then earn them, if you don't want to undertake the task that's fine as well, we all selectively choose what we do or don't want to do, but you can't expect to recieve what those others obtain through doing so, that's simply the consequence of your choice.

Providing the reward when you haven't undertaken the task would be the very definition of diminishing the effort those others have gone through, it's the very reason those rewards are given in the first place.

Ok, Challenge accepted.

If you go into any mission without arts on with high sp you won't do more damage you wont heal more and definitely wont debuff / give more power. If you played dcuo for a while you would have seen you couldn't run missions without having a certain amount of sp. Now you have people doing the same with arts by master inspectors. But you should know these things. You don't need sp to be at the top of the charts.



Ok, He does the test for me.

without sp in might and power
1257985 63 hits
351499 79 hits
293569 73 hits

with sp in might and power
1313079 79 hits
330701 82 hits
331574 69 hits

Sp was nerfed with the stat revamps.

Now imagine if that person had low or no arts they wouldn't last. sp isn't enough anymore so giving the option to buy sp wouldn't effect anyone what so ever sep for more fluent content running (I'm talking about buying up to 350-400 sp).

Edit- testing starts at 5:11

A video focusing on damage output alone is entirely disingenuous because it dismisses the value having more SP provides for support roles, as if damage dealing is the only role on this game.

Not to mention, I do enjoy a good double edged sword, you argue the diminished worth of SP shows it's justifiable to sell them, equally so, if that's true, it also entirely undermines your argument because it shows you don't even need them, so what worth is there in buying them?

This is why you couldn't be more disingenuous, again if that is true, why request an ability to buy them in the first place?

It lends the potential that you're not buying them because you want actual stats, but because you're trying to skew other people's perception of your in game achievements/ability.

Given that's likely the real motive here, how can you possibly suggest, even for a moment buying feats doesn't diminish the achievements of others, when that's clearly all you're attempting to do by skewing another persons perception of you...

Which one is it? I dont expect you'll answer this because you'll run from the prospect.

In addition to that I'll ask also, why exactly aren't you prepared to actually run the content again, what exactly is stopping you?

its an example.

So you're not answering the questions?

The same reason to buy arts to become stronger.

Like I said earlier " you can't see what feat things you completed without something else (if you go to that extent to see what feat someone completed LOL)". It's more of a self-accomplishment, not a stroke your ego type of thing. Now answer this would it truly affect you? If someone was given 400 or so this would not make my gameplay any different sep for more fluent content. My in-game achievements are far from lackluster.

Who said I wasn't in-game running content to top off my sp? I support sp buying because it's a pain to grind them out. I know the pain the struggle but why wish that on everyone else who is new to a MMO or returning to see the unattractive number of sp they don't have.
if you got it why not build a foundation for new and returning and help strengthen the community... why turn them away?

You have to know how to use the skills when you have them so there would still be a skill gap there.

Cool video, but again all I seen was an opinion.

Where is the data, not an example, because there are plenty of examples to go around.

Go to a sparring bot and test what you are saying.

I'm sure there are some vets who can do the same.

I made a statement earlier to cut to the chase with basically bias.

It's easy to make things appear bad when you don't like the thing, now prove what you are saying to be factual.

Start with all max SP max Arts then remove SP and then reverse, max SP with low arts.

If what you say to be truthful it will show in a chart, no video is going to prove anything because no 2 runs will be the same.

But you just said they're worthless and posted a video attempting to reinforce that position... Which is it? Are SP worthless or are they not?

You're attempting to say on one hand you don't need them they're worthless but then suggesting you want them because they'll make you stronger... But you don't want to earn them, you wan't to buy them.... right....

Something else? What you mean the official DCUO Census? That is an official tool provided by the developers to provide that very information, you're implying it's basically a work around by a third party to obtain information we shouldn't genuinely have?

Also yes, providing people with "artificial skill points" for lack of a better term, would detrimentally impact game play, because those players who aren't prepared to put in the effort and loosely speaking possess lower perseverance and skill levels will then be indistinguishable from those that don't.

SP also provide an indication of how much effort a player is prepared to put in to building their character, the lower the number the less effort they're, as evidenced by that fact, prepared to put in to an instance. Players should rightfully be able to see that distinction.

These are the types of players that will leave content after a singular wipe, they disrupt the groups because they always expect the path of least resistance, reinforced by the fact they're buying feats in the first place, they are again also loosely speaking the types of players who possess less skill and the SP system, whether you like it or not, assists players especially in end game elite content differentiate the potential elite player from the casual player, because that's what they're looking for.

At this point you'll probably scream "gosh darn elitist", but that's the point of elite content, like I've always said Elite players wouldn't be asking to buy SP in the first place because their entire appreciation of the SP system is clearly different from yours or anyone suggesting they be able to buy feats. They see the value in the achievement system, it's their bread and butter, it provides them with additional goals in content that lengthens DLC's and provides additional difficulty in content outside of standard difficulty settings. When they achieve those feats they are proud of them and why shouldn't they be?

This is also why your suggestion that selling feats doesn't diminish the achievement, couldn't be more nonsensical, of course it does, any suggestion otherwise is objectively absurd.

You also mention it would make content more fluent, what content? normal content or elite content? It's already a well known fact that normal content is so numbingly easy that you could do it all but fluently with zero SP even set, or are you suggesting that view is held by me because I'm a "gosh darn elitist" as well, perhaps I'm just that good right?

Again, how are they struggling to run normal content with their 70SP, why do they need more? Is the answer to run elite content?

It's funny too you refer to the grind as a "pain", perhaps that's one word to describe it, the other words could be "the intent of the game is to actually play it".

Moving on though, so the answer is that they want to run elite content, right.

Then, Yes I do want them to grind out the feats, I do want them to earn the feats, I don't care whether they're new to an MMO, we were all new at some point in time and we all had to learn, grinding out feats was part of that learning curve.

Obtaining those feats properly is building the foundation players in the elite community are looking for, opening your wallet or allowing new players to open their wallet isn't building any sort of foundation, it's achieving nothing other than allowing that player to be lazy and feed an unhealthy sense of self entitlement.

Sooo what's that got to do with me buying sp?

I just want to be able to buy sp Simple as that.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...

On another note, I was playing Star Wars the Old Republic the other day and noted that when you complete content in that game you get achievements, I don't actually want to play though, I just want the achievements, so I'll probably be a while responding back again because I'm over on their forums making a thread asking that I just be allowed to buy those achievements without playing, I hope that isn't an inconvenience

That game is about 10 years old... so I wouldn't mind if someone new wanted to. if that game is based on experience then you shouldn't compare it to dcuo.