Work In Progress GU103: Tank Balance

Brick could definitely use a buff it seems like he goes down way to often especially when manacles effects kick in all that damage comes back around

Just want to ask the question that everybody here would like an answer to that being whether or not the Devs are intentionally nerfing and breaking further an already near extinct group of players so they can then rake them over the coals for another $200-$500 for some shiny new artifact? You do realize that you’ve damaged this class so horribly that it takes on average 30 minutes to an hour of shouting in LFG to get a tank for anything in endgame content.

Devs: I'm curious if you've been following, thus far, the feedback here in the thread.
This is a topic I've been watching since first posted, and I think the obvious course of action is to maybe give a little acknowledgement of the comments.

It appears:
Earth tanks would like brick to be able to heal a little better.
Atomic tanks would like a little bit of change to the Aura times, and combo requirements.
Ice tanks need their Shields beefed up a bit.
Rage tanks need their shield to be viable, hit counter reduced a little.
And fire just plain needs some love.

Can we get a little haptic feedback?

What are you talking about... 2 power sets are getting slight buffs. 2 power sets aren’t changing. So slightly nerfing a power set because it is clearly outperforming means they are breaking a group of players? People need to stop being so over dramatic...

This is the only thing u got from his post? oh man, oh man...i guess some ppl choose to not see the forest because of the trees infront of them.

Not everything is a huge conspiracy... yes I know that these artifacts are getting out of hand. I’ve said that myself. But to think that’s the whole balance pass is to force one new artifact is ridiculous. People would’ve spent money on this artifact even if nothing was changed. And these changes aren’t even drastic changes. Only ONE power is getting a nerf. And that nerf is not a major one. And if players quit tanking because they can’t handle the very slight nerf than they probably shouldn’t have been tanking. This balance pass is about bring all tanks powers closer in line if one another and guess what it is.

Ice is way behind. Artifacts make Ice viable which doesn't mean it is where it should be. The pull for Ice is basically non existant compared to other powers that have group pulls. Ice is in dire need of a group pull and a revamp to have the Ice Form be activated like it used to be. Give Ice a buff in those aspects. Ice Tanks have to struggle to get enemies together. Ice was specifically made as a turtle tank. With the way it is set up how can you accomplish that if you have to jump around to grab ads? It makes no sense. Fix it please. Artifacts should not be the fix all.

A little background of myself, i tanked with everything single tank power since revamp. I have been different tank powers in dlc. As a tank the hardest power set to use would be atomic. Atomic is the only tank power that should experience a significant buff. At end game elite content, atomic is wayyyyy to squishy. No agility at all, thus if you get controlled or your combos get broken, you will die. The heal from proton remedy is too little. Combo heals way to little. You lose you aura way to easily. But most of this can be fixed with simply allowing the aura to remain for the full duration of 8 seconds once you activate it. No need for combos unless you need extra healing or you are able to combo safely where yo don’t have to move. Increasing the control resistance is not good enough of a fix for a broken power set.

Now fire is way to strong, with gu103 fire will be too op. As of now the heals you get from fire is more than enough. Absorb heat is basically a wtf moment where you’ll go from 25% to 100% in a matter of seconds even with getting damaged. For anybody to say that fire is deserving of a buff(a major one at that) is simply a idiot and doesn’t know basic mechanics. I seem to many tanks and not just fire get destroyed because they think that tanking is popping a power and blocking. There is a reason why the game teaches you how to block break, lunge etc. basic mechanics of this game. Those people shouldn’t even comment on a thread. Too many people complain about rage being overpowered but if they switch to it I bet it’ll be the same thing. Destroyed. Fire is undeniable better than rage in all matters of context. Rage and fire should be left untouched. They both have advantages and disadvantages. What you devs should be focused on is ice(shields way too weak), atomic(needs a whole revamp), and earth(brick way too squishy, to where he dies off of an attack, or his health/power bar disappears).

On the lines of making a tank feel more tanky are you also addressing that in normal content as well. A tank should loose a 3rd or more health from 1 hit in open world content or duos

Ok I’m not a tank But here’s some suggestions from my leaguemates that are tanks.

Atomic:

[Atomic Reorganiztion]: The pull should not pull an enemy, enemies or target with out daze effect stunning them.
[Atom Splitter]: Should also not become immune atfer to CC effect [Dazed] after 2 uses.
[Quark-Gluon Arua]: Should be increased to 15 seconds instead of 12 second, without refeshing it with [Atomic Combos] to help with block breaks in PVE Content.
[Density]: Should also give the tank 1 [Nuclear Pressure] Stack and 2 [Molecular Charges] when used to refresh the aura

Fire:

increase fires heals/shields

Earth:

Epicenter the group pull for earth should stun

First of all, go back to the OP of this thread, read the first 5 lines of text and tell me what you think they mean and get back to me.

I've never said ever, that you have to be a specific tank class to accomplish something, not since the SM days of old have you had to be a certain tank powerset. This past SM being rage and ice made it infinitely easier to complete 28-30 rounds but if you just exploited kiting or manbat you could have been another tank and more than likely did it, im sure there are some with the crown that weren't ice or rage. Other than that every tank class can complete all content. Can they do it as easily as rage can? nope, can they all do it with a solo healer? probably not. Has nothing to do about having to pay a respec to go a tank class because you feel the one you are is took weak. That is a player skill issue if they feel they want an easier time tanking and go rage or try fire and atomic and can't do it etc.

Like myself and other tanks have said you can face tank nearly all of current content besides a few outliers, but the community doesn't do that because kiting is so much easier and safer so they feel somehow obligated to kite in all content when its not even remotely required, once again that is a community issue not specifically tank balance.

This entire thread is about easy to execute changes that will have the largest impact on said tank powersets. Not about changing the game from the ground up in the immunity and crowd control breakout profiles. A number of posters here in this thread cannot grasp that concept.

What easy to execute issue is there with Atomic Tanking? The weakest BSM shield and cc issues which prevent consistent combing. Solution: Raise BSM on Density and increase control resistance to where we cannot be easily knocked out of combing. What has Batuba done? well he's at least done 1/2 things. What easy to execute issue can be fixed to ice to make a significant impact? nothing cause Ice is fine. If you want reflect or shatter BSM changed then the cooldown will have to change too and thus messes up an entire shield rotation cause you can't just buff reflect and keep it a 12s shield and buff shatter which is the only shield immunity. What easy to execute fix can be made to Earth to make it better? nothing except fixing already present issues with Brick. If you buff the healing on Totem to make it viable that is a massive increase in its heals then because its still a HOT and not burst heals for brick. If you want Brick to heal himself more you have to completely change the AI to have his taunt not use power then that could lead to other issues. Also healers tend to suck at healing NPC's and using specific npc heal powers which again isn't a tank balance issue that's a healer issue. These are examples of feedback that players need to think about because what do you realistically think is going to happen in regards to adjustments in the 1-2 possibly 3 week window before this all hits test? It will be the weapon pass all over again where nothing changes.

Atomic needs to be able to block on command while in combo.
Earth needs to be able to get heals from fortify golem still glitchy brick dies way to often.
Ice mehh maybe a 360 pull
Fire just put it back to how it was during happiness home when it was burst heals mixed in with hots

The main issue by people here to the one you're referring to is that he's establishing his opinion based on posts and suggestions by others here instead of just focusing and elaborating with his own with the DCUO game developers in this very thread as if he's acting like one of them.

Hello Batuba,

Another simple alternative to the semi absorption for fire, can also be using "enflame". It's also a pi/dot with a flame animation outline around the character and it has a knockdown on cast. It's one ability that was used prior to revamp for the tank side but hasn't been used by most in awhile.

Perhaps utilizing this ability instead of reducing "immolation" would be another good possible choice from the couple that I've mentioned in my previous post. It's sort of similar to what bitter winds was for ice, minus the low absorption it had prior to revamp.

I've just remembered about this ability and thought that bringing it back to use with this in mind would be a good idea, if you want to go with the semi absorption for fire. Hopefully the heals can be increased some too though, as fire was mostly about heals and juggles originally before revamp.

(Side Note: Please consider the suggestions mentioned, fire is my main and I've been fire since I started playing dc many years ago. I've stuck through and adapted with most of the changes dc has endured over the years and I am sure I will adapt to these changes as well.

Though I would at least like any possible changes made to be done based on player experience with the power over the years and not partial experience or no experience from some players who've only dabbled with the power but haven't actually done in depth tests or knows the ins and outs of it.

Hopefully if each players feed back is well enough and considered then these changes could possibly be the right ones that are needed to finally balance most powers as close as possible, so that we won't need any more changes or updates on this for quite awhile).

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely: Brav

Main points: Tanks are rare
Ice uses shields and with a good healer can tank ok but not in areas where mechanics ignore shields like in PCE.
You should not alienate powers from content as Ice tanks are useless in those situations.

I agree that tanks should be buffed, the roll of a tank is to monitor and control the battle ground positioning the boss to group advantage farming immunities and gathering adds etc... not running away from adds kiting bosses.

The meta here for a while has been pull and run which is why we have no tanks.

At the end of the day you are going to do what you want and ignore all feedback like always, like always ppl who want to tank current content will roll the new power set that helps survive best in elite raids as intended I guess

Or you could listen and respond for a change but I guess we will see what the feedback you have asked for changes anything from you original plans

Hey Batuba,
I just have a suggestion. When looking for tank balance can you please take into consideration all the “tanking” powers. I mean, this game ahas really become cookie cutter, and it’s not just tanking, it’s like this with healing, controlling and dpsing. Being able to have variety will breathe new life into these powersets. Thank you again for all your hard work.

Slightly nerfing? Do you have any idea how many times they’ve done that to this power? No you probably don’t. Just like you probably don’t know why it takes a half hour to a full hour to find any tank for elite raids in this game now. But let’s ignore that and pretend it’s not an issue. Let’s ignore the fact that an already near extinct group of players is yet again getting shafted. just one question, will you be switching to the power after it’s been nerfed AGAIN to tell everyone that it’s still good? Will you be using a further damaged power to run elite content at your expense for everyone else’s benefit?

but that wasnt the only major point of his post, the other major point ,more important i want to point out,was the criticism at the devs for showing no love to a near extinct group of players within the dcuo community, the players who play the Tank Role as a Main Role.

If u read all the comments in this thread u will find out that most ppl complain exactly about that while the minority of the thread comments either ignore that fact or they dont care and are the opinion those complains shouldnt take place in a thread called " GU103: Tank Balance" since Devs dont plan to make any significant changes to a role the dcuo community has apparently less fun of playing at the moment compared to the other roles.

A count of 5 is simple enough to get back to, I think it's just ridiculous that we have to do it at all. Do healers have to get combos up to impact their heals? Controllers? I know some DPS trinkets have combo aspects but are there any DPS powersets that demand it for more damage out?

It's a mechanic that didn't need to be included, doing so makes the powerset needlessly cumbersome for tanking. They should have left us as we were but added more natural mitigation (even just tying it into the 8-second timer our Dom-based extra health was tied to).