Work In Progress GU103: Tank Balance

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Batuba, Mar 6, 2020.

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  1. Cyro Committed Player

    Hell if they didn't tell them and just had it as a ninja nerf they wouldnt even notice
    • Like x 3
  2. Royal Knight Kiryu Well-Known Player


    You gonna try and sit here and tell me that it hasn’t been nerfed but given the fact that you probably didn’t watch the video and could not replicate the exact same thing that was done in that video over three years ago today is living proof that you’re absolutely full of it trying to claim that rage has not been nerfed. When you can do that exact same thing by today’s standards with rage now before they Nerf it again then you get to talk not a moment sooner. I also listed earlier and another posting how they stripped away the self-healing mechanic for power that was completely designed around the concept of melee. Tell me since they’ve stripped that away have they completely redesigned the power for range? No they haven’t they just let it sit there like a limp dick. Now it just looks like the poster child is something that should’ve been aborted because it’s been mutilated so damn bad it’s unrecognizable.

    I’ll simplify it for you..
    Cr 188
    Sp 302
    No artifacts
    No wipes, first attempt by yourself. If you can’t do that with the powers it is right now today you shouldn’t even be talking about rage tanking.
    • Like x 1
  3. Pyrometers Active Player

    Another suggestion is to change either immolation or burning determination animation because they are similar also add some type of effect to let the player know that fire soul is active . Also could the new immolation become a new power with a different name and keep immolation as is ,just a suggestion . Finally could the heals speed for stoke flames be increased and either add the burst heal back with a small reduction to the heal over time or add 2 extra ticks of heal .
  4. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    What was the video supposed to show us? You are soloing an Rip in Time Elite at CR189 which is a combat rating past that DLC episode as you out cr Black Adam which was during the CR scaling days so that means that you take alot less damage from that alert. You also take the boss behind the pillars so that you cheese the instance where the fire balls can't hit you so you completely avoid taking that damage, which is why you could solo it so congrats? What you did in that video compares nothing to anything today, you can go to youtube and see a plethora of videos of elite content that focus a solo rage tank.

    I don't know what aspect you are completely struggling with to tank as rage nowadays that would lead you to form this opinion but no one is going to agree with you that a) rage didn't need an adjustment b) rage is noticeably weaker after this adjustment

    Also P.S you were cr189 in the video not what you listed as cr188 ;)
    • Like x 2
  5. Royal Knight Kiryu Well-Known Player

    Since you didn’t bother to watch the video you probably would’ve known that I didn’t find them behind the pillars but instead out in front where I was constantly getting shot with the blood the entire time. if you’re not willing to pay attention to small details I don’t get why you get a voice making a decision on the big details. But again like I said in the original posting if you can’t do it today explain to me how it’s not nerfed now. Hell I’ll do you one better this power gets nerfed and you lose an even greater number of people from an already near extinct group of players I’m gonna sit there to your face along with Mepps I told you so. I’m gonna ask you then when it happened to that overwhelming number of tanks that existed? I’m gonna ask you since you now don’t have what you need to run elite content will you continue to whine and complain about how powers and instances need to be nerfed some more because you can’t make it through? Oh maybe you’ll say that they need to release a new pay to win artifact to come out and fill in the hole that these clowns dug because rather than having the foresight and experience to understand how these endless scams and failures further plunge this game into an already well dug Graves you seem to think that reproducing the same things that cost them so many players the last time will somehow have a different outcome.
  6. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    I did watch the video, I saw you pretty much never lunge Black Adam when he was doing his channeled beam on you, also saw you just smoke bomb away giving Black Adam repeated immunity, come to think of it I don't think I saw you counter Black Adam even 1 time and you want to use this as "tanking example footage" then at 3:52 you ran behind the pillars and stood there for almost the next 6 min which was 42% of the entire video. Show us tank footage where a player is properly getting counters, which is a large requirement of a tank and then i'll pay more attention.

    I know exactly why you don't see as many tanks nowadays in the community and i've already mentioned it earlier. All the community cares about now is OP DPS and unless your powerset has OP DPS its low chance of your average player switching to it, which is why surprise Rage is popular as its op for both might and prec with berserk. Ice/Fire/Atomic lag behind in dps areas compared to some controller powers or healer powers so everyone swtiches gadgets or nature or munitons or light or celestial etc. The developers buffing or nerfing tank classes isn't going to bring some massive influx to tanks, even if they did nerf Rage like you said, which is an absolute lie, no one would care because Rage dps isn't being changed.
    • Like x 1
  7. Dead13 Well-Known Player

    what if we won't use roles. every power would be any role
    • Like x 1
  8. DBDropper New Player

    I’ve played all rank roles but enjoy Fire the most and it took me ages and skill points to be satisfied with it. Fire has always lagged behind others but I just plain liked it.. so thank you for finally making it viable without 450+ skill points an maxed out artifacts (which I have)
    That being said it will be nice to see more fire tanks in game again. My only suggestion is the vibrant stuns, holds... tanking the other day I was held in the air 3 times in a row .. lost agro in metal two content both in skeet and a raid. These constant stuns/holds oh and mind controlled lol isn’t making things challenging it’s a just a very aggravating nuisance,. It’s not good content in general I’ve played other games as a tank and this is toooo much. All tanks need better CC defense and please I agree kiting constantly isn’t good game play especially considering different travel power options make it difficult, I just wanna tank like a true tank
    Thank you
    • Like x 1
  9. inferno Loyal Player

    To be honest, as a fire user, I don't like it at all. If you look at Ice, just by being a tank they get their 65% buff. Atomic gets 90% buff as a tank. But It is what it is. Fire's qualities gives it that 50% boost in health and it does have powers that self-heals and lowering it to 5 counts is very helpful.

    @Batuba - is it possible to know what determines our self-heal ticks? Is it possible to spec into it? I think if it were to be based on resto, not only would it encourage players to pursue more skill points, it would certainly further make fire viable for its unique tanking, not relying on any outside shields it can desperately grasp its hands on ( deflection, phase dodge, hl shield or even clown box)

    BTW - for future support power passes, please take a look/help on nature.
    • Like x 1
  10. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    It follows the standard healing formula as far as I know.

    Fire and all tanks will always rely on outside help. HLS is just such a strong shield that they would have to greatly buff at least 3 abilities for each tank to be better than HLS. But that’s the last thing they should do
  11. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    As a fire tank on my main, i'm exited for these changes. When can we expect them in test? I know you said a few weeks, but was that roll-in on live or in test?
  12. Magnificent Loyal Player



    Exactly. We wouldn't be in this bad of a situation if they had just left us as we were but added the max extra natural mitigation as part of the 8-second buff. All they would need to do is tweak the mitigation in the buff.
  13. Darth Piper Loyal Player

    This is a large chunk of the problem. Fire's got two problems:
    1. Worst-of-the-tank-powers defense, and the only way to get the full buff requires too much work
    2. Inadequate self healing
    This fix will address problem 1, and I'll stay cautiously optimistic about this. Problem 2... the inadequate self healing... could be partly because a Fire tank needs to spec more like a healer than a tank (Health > Resto > Dom). Given the large health pool and the fact that it's supposed to be a healing tank, a Fire tank should walk out of a raid looking like a mediocre healer. Right now, it's too reliant on outside assistance to survive.
  14. Magnificent Loyal Player

    When we were revamped to get Fire Soul they nerfed our healing. Once upon a time our healing was far more effective.
    • Like x 1
  15. Malivic01 Active Player

    This new tank artifact is basically going to force all tanks to spec health first.

    New artifact op and health based so fire going to be op from it.

    If a dom specced tank your dom spec will be health when artifact drops so shields are going to be nerfed which means ice is going to unintentionally be nerfed


    When we discuss tank balance are look for the powers to be balanced with no artifacts equipped?

    If not, then re we looking for tank balance with what I can only assume would be while having 3 meta artifacts maxed at 200?

    The 'nerf' to rage is so tiny, it won't 'nerf' anything.
    I would say buff ice shields slightly, buff earth jackhammer defense, buff atomic wih these changes and let's see, buff fire with changes and let's see but this new artifact making fire super op and leave rage alone or 'nerf' it, it really won't change rage at all, rage op already and new artifact only going to help that
    Good luck

    Gg ty
    I appreciae
  16. p3rf3ctxxxdark Well-Known Player

    Another way to fix some issues give us another artifact slot provides alot more options to spec based on the power. Theres to many artifact choices especially now that we are getting new ones. having 4 slots available should be an upcoming update or atleast in the conversation.
    Anyone else agree??
  17. Templeton Active Player

    Nothing and nobody forces you to pick the new artifact, in fact you shouldn't even use it as ice as you're supposed to never take damage directly to health, so going full health over dom is not even the case. You pick your artifacts as you see fit for your tank powerset. Just because it is recommended on the artifact that is for tanks it doesn't mean it will work for all of them.

    Consider 'Everyman Prototype' artifact an artifact designed for powersets that by nature need full health spec. Moreover, it is a saviour for Fire, and combined with Fire's upcoming buffs, this tank might finally feel solid. Remember also that no other tank power had more benefits from Manacles than Ice. The new artifact is supposed to put Fire in line with other tank powers, nobody seems to appreciate this fact here. Do not make scenarios about balance without artifacts, that is for pre artifacts era. Ever since the release, these items have given you the chance and the choice to enhance your power. We are left to buff ourselves through artifacts, you like Ice? You get Manacles. You hate Ice? You get Everyman and Dilustel and see yourself pulverized as you wrongly play your cards.


    Not even 7 artifacts equipped at once will complete the raid for you. Once you achieve most knowledge about your tank power and tank mechanics, you will feel like having 3 artifacts is an overkill, let alone 4. The stats most of you overprioritize become trivial when you're in touch with your powerset. For a quick example, no artifact or number of artifacts will prevent Rage's Rage Crash mechanic from happening other than the combo. Of course, you may already know that. However, it gets more complex with the other powersets, but they work under the same principle too. But people refuse to believe it and won't study their power further and give up, strongly suggesting that all the tank powers should be brought in line with Rage, or taking refuge into spec and artifacts as if the stats will ease the raid's mechanics and carry the player. That's unlikely to happen.
    • Like x 1
  18. Black Jaq Devoted Player


    The only benefit of Everyman for Ice would be the added Restoration stat in shield calculations. Mix with EoG and Manacles and you would probably have the best stats for shields.
  19. Templeton Active Player

    True, but we're not aiming for stats when we talk about artifacts are we? A smart player would go after the artifact's main passive. I see you care for your supercharge as you'd pick EoG and even Manacles if you count it's 10% cd reduction on shields. Now what other artifact helps your sc big time and reduces cd on that one shield?;)
  20. Batuba Developer

    Updated original post to reflect changes to Brick healing.
    • Like x 3
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