AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!!!...The Avengers Infinity War Part 2 Thread

Captain Marvel has never been part of the Avengers, not even when it was Mar-Vel in the spandex
We will just have to wait and see why she has been 'gone' for the last 30 years

So, something that appears in the first 20 minutes and doesn't get explained until the last 20 is... what? Not a plothole, just because it doesn't get explained in the movie it first appeared in doesn't make it a 'plot hole', specially if it does get explained in the next movie. Oh, you didn't see the next one because you got upset with the previous to ever watch another so didn't see it resolved? Touch nookie!

Maybe you can give an example of one of your 'glaring plotholes'?

The Richard Donner Superman films have cast a VERY long shadow, long enough that the folks at Warner Brothers and DC still haven't figured out how to get out from under it, and it's been about 38 years since Superman 2.

And now I feel old for having typed that, considering I remember Superman 2 hitting theaters when I was a kid. LOL

Anyhow, in addition to the long shadow, it's been reported that the folks in charge of the Marvel films regularly go back and watch the original Superman as part of their homework (for lack of a better term). Those bits of info lend a considerable amount of weight to the argument that Donner DID get it.

As for Superman Returns, well it wasn't a Richard Donner film, it was a Bryan Singer film. Singer is a good director and proved he could do super hero films with the X-Men films, but that doesn't mean he was up to the task of meeting or exceeding the bar set by the Donner films. It might even be argued that Singer trying very hard to fit his film into what Donner established may have been what worked against it.

Personally felt "Superman Returns" did fit in with the Donner films, specially seeing how they didn't see a need for yet another origin story

I get that sites report it that way and all but im pretty sure they're asked to go back and watch it because along with Geoff Johns, Kevin Feige was Richard Donners appretice. The 2 of them regularly have lunch together apparently and discuss how each others comics are doing too. Feige idolised Donner so its no wonder he'd get them to revisit one of his most famous films. Warts and all.

Regardless im not saying the Movie is a terrible one, as stated in 2 posts now i still love the Movie for its second and third acts. The first act got the character so wrong though. Superman was originally Superboy for a reason, he couldnt sit around and do nothing while he had the ability to help. Let alone seclude himself for 12yrs. And im sorry but arguing that X gives weight to Y is a bit flawed, thats completely down to perspective not fact.

Singer is, to be as fair as possible, a hit and miss director. Personally i think hes been stuck with a few scripts he wasnt happy with. When hes doing a Usual Suspects hes great, when its Xmen Apocolypse...... well......
But herein lies the Issue that everyone seems to have the answer for yet doesnt:

MoS and BvS release
Splits fans, those who hate them say its too dark and needs to be more optimistic
Superman Returns was out before them, with that kind of tone
People hated It stating it was boring and outdated
So where's the middle ground?

If i had 1 wish for the future of the DCEU, it would be for WB to bring in Dan Jurgens, Peter Tomasi, Pat Gleason and maybe Scott Snyder, sit them in a room with the writer chosen to pen MoS2 and say; Here's what we'd do. And here's why he doesnt kill and how to address any past killings.

DC Comics managed to bring the true Superman back from his New52 monstrosity In a short 8 issue series, so its far from too late for them to do it with the DCEU. I mean they even involved Superman Red/Blue in the overall story except this time it didnt suck. Even Cavill sounds like he wants to shift it in that direction from interviews.

Umm, I think you are mixing up real world and movie world here. If they were to follow your line of thought, it would limit what could be done and how stories could be told. And yes, SuperBell's comment was just really bad and doesn't fit anything known in the MCU.

At first, it does seem strange that Fury chose to form the Avengers instead of calling Cap. Marvel but though it will most likely be easily explained in her movie, its not difficult to figure things out. Where ever she has been and whatever she has been doing is her priority and Earth needs heroes that have Earth as their priority.

I can guess that Fury with the known history of Captain America and his first hand experience with Cap. Marvel, that is what gave him the whole idea of putting together a team such as the Avengers. And I'm quite sure that's how Cap Marvel's movie will lay things out.


On a side note. Sorry, there was a question you asked me, I think last week, I have been meaning to answer it. I didn't have the time when you asked (was afraid it would be a long answer), I do want to answer it, just have to find the thread it's in and the right amount of time.

No worries about the question thing, tbh I forget what I asked too lol.

Im not sure what the mixing up real world vs movie world thing is about, could you clarify that?

As for the Cap Marvel - Avengers thing, I wasnt referring to Cap Marvel being a replacement for the entire team, im referring to the fact that not once in the MCU film history is she mentioned as a possible candidate, not even in the Avengers Initiative Files tony had a look over, even though apparently Fury met her back in the 80s/90s. Its the equivalent of Batman meeting Superman first (and him not dying ofc) and when he forms the JL hes not even considered as a possible member. Its just terrible backtracking in its laziest form.

That's a perfect example of real vs. movie world.

The movies can not have anything in them that the real world does not plan for. Though the MCU did have a long term plan, not everything was set from the beginning. Cap Marvel would be one of those not set things but there is a movie world explanation for her not being mentioned before.

She would have been classified extremely top secret by SHIELD and thus not apart of any files that could be seen by anyone other than Fury and a select few others. Stark of course would never be given clearance to see her files, let alone know she even existed. And like I said whatever she has been apart of since the 90s is her priority, which made her not a viable candidate for the original Avengers Initiative.

Now we wont know her story until next March (sigh, such a long time) but you can be sure that her absence will be well explained. There is definitely a reason why she disappeared after the events that will take place in the movie. The comparison you made though, doesn't hold do to the fact that Superman is based and active on Earth where as Cap Marvel most likely is not. That would be like if the JL asked a Green Lantern from a sector on the other side of the galaxy to join the team, he/she needs to be patrolling their sector not on some team a galaxy away.

I get where you're trying to come from but do you not see that your entire point, and that entire post, is based on the idea of inserting things into a film that isnt there? Most of your point is speculation, or to put it another way, made up. Neither of us have any details here so im not trying to pretend I do, but saying something like "shes top secret" cant be backed up here. Hell the one photo we got of her in that weird green suit was on a brightly lit street so she cant be too top secret to begin with.

We dont know shes secret, we dont know she has some other priority, we dont know shes not on earth and arguing that Marvel would be hidden from Stark but Thor wouldnt be is a bit of a stretch to be fair. As ive said before I dont give DC a pass for shoehorning WW into BvS so I definitely wouldnt be with this. Except with this it actually changes previous films too.

For the record, he was awarded a posthumous membership.

That's like giving someone an Oscar after they died (oh wait, that has happened)

If he was good enough to be given a membership when he was dead, what was preventing him from being a live member?

Point is, we don't know anything, except we have had good history with MCU explaining seeming 'plot holes' and 'inconsistencies'

Not sure if you were around in the 80's, butt that was at least a full 10+ years before 'smart phones', portable phones were the size (and weight) of a brick and home computers didn't even start until the end of the 80's, so it would be very easy to hide those events
It may very well be a 'brightly lit street', butt where? It could be in the middle of no where or even another country altogether, contrary to what Avengers may have led you to believe, butt not everything happens in DownTown Manhattan!

he died?

Ledger

Oh wait, you meant Mar-Vel? Yeah, space cancer, it's why Danvers got the job

All we have for the Captain Marvel movie is the fact that it is supposed to be set in the 90's anything else is pure speculation.

So as ridiculous as the ends credit scene may be to folks, you won't know if it's a real plot hole until Captain Marvel's movie comes out (the very fact that they announced it wsa going to be in the 90's before Infinity aired, means people are going to expect the movie to say why she hasn't been around for all of this... especially given the fact that the powers that be are announcing that Captain Marvel is going to be the strongest hero they have released to date).

Um what now? I think you might have a different definition of plot hole than what plot hole actually is.

WW didn't help Superman in Man of Steel we know that for a fact. We don't know what she was doing sure but based off that movie she know he existed which is how she ended up showing up in BvS. Them randomly showing the other potentials for the Justice League also weren't plot holes in my book.

Again this was the second movie in the universe... things were rushed far more than they should be... but not everything was a plot hole per se.

Im sorry but relativity isnt speculation, unless the Avengers were assembled in the 70s and everything leading up to IF left them in the 80s/90s, to which a very dusty Fury met Marvel, then it doesnt work. We dont speculate about time, we've pretty much got that on lock these days.

And I think you might be mixing up my posts with Derp Visors tbh. I mentioned how there are Plot Holes and glaring inconsitencies in other Movies, like in IF. I didnt say the End Credits scene was one though. I said it now creates basically a "why the f### wasnt she called when there were much bigger emergencies" problem. Others have tried to answer that with speculation, which im having none of. If a Movie has glaring flaws then I dont care if its Marvel or DC, neither gets, nor has earned, special treatment. Bad writing is bad writing.

A proper post credits scene to tease her would have been if she'd crash landed on Earth all messed up, or a view of her arriving in space or literally anything else than what we got. Fury having her on speed dial was laughable at best. None of this is me saying the Cap Marvel movie is going to be bad btw, it might be great, its just another example of a few lately that Marvel arent thinking things through as much as the fanboys would have you believe.

But sure when Thor can get stabbed by a tiny knife in Avengers 1 yet take on the brunt of an actual Star in IF, and Cap America struggles a bit to bend a metal rail in CA1 yet is able to hold back Thanos which Hulk could barely do in IF, I dont know why I'd expect consistency.

Im not sure how to reply to this one tbh. You highlight in red my comment about WW being "shoehorned" into the film, which she really was to be fair, and.... then start talking about "plot holes"?

Im honestly very confused. I think I might have addressed this confusion in my other reply though. Hopefully. Otherwise you're really going to need to explain.

He deserved it damn it

Describe your perfect "superhero movie". I agree, the MCU and DCEU has their flaws (some more than most), but they are still superhero movies. Is there any superhero movie you think is a "superhero movie"?