Concerns: Artifacts from a Support Role

Where the community and game is right now is entirely subjective, so to accuse me or people like me or that might share my viewpoint as being the cause of your current displeasure at the game is misplaced at best.

I absolutely can sit back and take a more passive approach to this particular feature if that's my position and I do have the right to express that opinion within an open discussion thread. That does not at all suggest I am not passionate for the game.

What I am saying to you is that these are the first artifacts, they're not perfect by any means, but they're only the first. Your view as to whether the stats are beneficial is based solely upon your own opinion as to what stat you feel is most important in your given role, which isn't even necessarily 100% correct and you're completely ignoring overall group benefits to further your argument.

I mean what are you attempting to achieve here? Are you demanding that these first artifacts be changed to suit your preference or are you advocating that additional artifacts be added. You're not even giving the feature an opportunity to develop you're simply demanding it be done the way you deem it be done.

Allowing a little bit of time for the feature to mature does not "lack common sense" the way you would have others believe simply because it doesn't meet your model of thinking, I could conclude just as easily that your impatience is also illogical.

I think these first artifacts do provide some overall benefit from a group perspective, should they be the only artifacts every introduced, certainly not, do they meet your expectations; obviously not.

Should the whole system be uprooted and changed to meet your personal view of how someone should "spec" their character; of course not.

Yes, there are issues with Celestial and healing overall, but that doesn't change the fact I have a problem with the artifacts as well. The artifacts should benefit the the role they are made for which will benefit the group as a whole.

I'm not saying that at all. At threat of beating a dead horse here, I'm saying let's just wait and see for a bit.

Also there's always this "us and them" mentality between support and DPS, we're all a group and all players, benefit from extra health and extra burn, whether you want to accept that or not is up to you.

Is it your own personal primary stat, no, but does it benefit the group in some way; of course it does.

To counter Proxy's argument DCUO has already implemented this type of system before with interactions and synergies but it wasn't as singular as it is with Artifacts. We had the SPARC weapons from the Lightning Strikes DLC

• Small chance to restore power to yourself and 3 allies equipped with SPARC weapons when used again enemies
• Small chance for you and 3 allies equipped with SPARC weapons to knockdown or cause extra damage when used again enemies
• Small chance to absorb damage to yourself and 3 allies in Tank Role equipped with SPARC weapons when used again enemies; Allies not in Tank Role will be detaunted
• Small chance to restore health to yourself and 3 allies equipped with SPARC weapons when used again enemies

what do you know group synergies that still benefit the individual role rather than just benefiting 1 role like these Artifacts largely do, this is what Artifacts need to be rather than basically having a singular synergy

But you're not countering my argument at all, you're just beating the same drum.

Just because there's other items in the game that do such a thing doesn't mean more similar artifacts won't be added in the future.

You choose to believe my viewpoint is invalid because you see it as illogical

I've even acknowledged your argument in terms of advocating for additions to the feature.

You could always answer my question as to what you're wanting to achieve here, is it an overhaul of these first artifacts or additional ones?

and I can absolutely sit back and question your approach as misguided and that your approach has literally never worked to bring about desirable change to DCUO, if you can even list me 1 example ever in the 7 year history of DCUO that this/your approach has worked than I will /bow to you but I won't hold my breath and before you can state it the only time I personally can think of a wait and see approach working in this games history was with the sony hack, while most of the population left the ones that waited to see what would happen came back and were rewared with a feat, that is literally the only example of wait and see changes in 7 years. So GL

What am I trying to achieve? I would think that would be rather obvious I am trying to lay the groundwork to enact real change with the Artifact system so that "UPON RELEASE" while we're still in the testing phase changes can happen instead of waiting to see in months or a year when the second batch comes out that may or may not have desirable changes.

You have provided literally no substance to this argument besides continually pointing out how we should take a passive approach to everything DCUO does and trust them to make changes themselves

Hey Proxy.... how about those PVP changes .... yea buddy "wait and see" has been working out great for them but its ok pvpers will continue to "wait and see"

Tell me Proxy why in your mind do you think its logical or even necessary for us to wait and see for FUTURE RELEASED ARTIFACTS when these current ones are right in front of us on the test server of all places not being released to live for at least another week and a half? Why in all your apparent wisdom should be just sit back and watch when these aren't even on live server yet? This is exactly the right time to have these types of discussions not in the future, in the here and now.

Sit back and wait for it to come out with useless stats and a useless bonus that I have to grind out anyways because there's 7 SP worth of feats attached to it? That makes absolutely no sense Proxy. The point in putting it up for testing is to receive player feedback and make necessary changes.

The support community is very small, and it's always been the minority which is why there's the "us and them" mentality. Someone has to speak up on behalf of the Healing and Trolling community and today it happens to be Chill and I. The stats attached to the artifact are absolutely useless for these roles and the bonuses are a joke as well. The game is DPS focused enough without making a role specific item for a support role DPS focused as well.

As I said earlier if the DPS bonus was for a support role there'd be an uproar on the forums, and it would be flooded in tears.

Wait a minute now.

You two are not the only people speaking up for the other roles( non-DPS).

I happen to agree with Proxy on this one, only due to the group dynamics with Artifacts.

Besides, Damage is King in DCuo let's not kid ourselves anymore.

No roles compete for healing out nor power out or even on aggro, but all look at Damage out.

There is currently zero pieces of content that requires the last boss to have any other mechanism for defeat but Zero health.

It is not about the scorecard nor is it meant to take away from DPS's, but this community is driven by Damage, hence the majority is Damage.

Seems like the more they attempt to bring life back to Healers/Controllers players only want to solo, and don't want the competition or have to compete to be the best at there role.

Sadly.... group dynamics and teamwork..... NOT the DCUO players' strongest attribute.

People only think in one dimension...."me".

How does that benefit "me" .
As opposed to
How does it benefit "me" and the group.
or even
How does it benefit the group.

If it does benefit the group.... but does NOT benefit "me"..... then it is no good because most players only think in terms of "me".

Sadly.... being the biggest beast/top of the scoreboard is what most are after as opposed to helping the group complete the mission.

Sad..... but that is what it is.

Group dynamics huh?

DPS artifact buffs the DPS
Healer artifact buffs health which buffs the DPS
Troll artifact buffs health which buffs the DPS
Tank artifact buffs health which buffs the DPS (yes health helps a tank but still buffs the DPS)

Great group dynamics there....

I'm not saying we're the only ones doing it, but at that moment it was Chill and I arguing for something better for our roles. I know this game is DPS focused, but that doesn't make it right and it needs to stop. If you're ok with being a mobile DPS buff trinket by all means more power to you, you're entitled to your own opinion. I have the same right though, and I will not sit quietly and be a buff trinket.

I'm not really sure where you're going with the last part of your comment. It has no relevance to the conversation that I can clearly see (maybe I missed something, it is early). Are you wanting to force 2s? If you are, what does that have to do with the artifacts?

I really don't see why anyone would have a problem with the Controller and Healer artifact actually giving a role specific bonus. It would still benefit the group and the person who worked for it.

It's not that I disagree with you about trolling or any role i get what your saying but if you raise the vit or pot or anything it only promotes more solo role work and personally I am no fan of solos. I enjoy running 2s but a little more variety would be nice to start with. Like why is everything based to help damage only. Basically all the health boost are just to get more damage. Why not with the artifacts increase debuffs strengths. Or improve super charge regen or shielding or reduce follows on defensive powers for the group. It's a good idea but this idea seems to need more conceptual work in order to really be effective

We don't know what the overall plans are and you sure are trying to create a mountain out of a molehill before you even know what the heck is even going on.

Do we, you or I know what the second group of artifacts are going to do?
We do know the first group and it's health.

Heath helps the whole group.

Second & Third???????
Who's knows what the devs are going to do with these artifacts.
I think you need to step back and take a look at what is happening.

This first group is all health. It looks to me that they are going to release these in groups. ie...
group
A. Health
B. ? could be stuns
C. ? could be healing

Sorry but you're trying to create something out of nothing. As far as I am concerned this thread needs to get 404.

I completely agree. And im not sure why a few disagreed. You sounded like an experienced person to me. I also personally know mixing vit and power is just more manageable.

You didnt sound like you were telling people how to play at all.

Very informative and wonderful post.


We should get more than just health or prec to help buff the dps'.

People need to stop trying to create something out of nothing.
We as players have no clue on the direction the devs plan on taking in artifacts and yet we already have someone trying to create a sky is falling thread ( Only about DPS ) when no one has any idea.

In layman's terms CUT THE BS & stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

I love the irony of people begging for months to be able to play however they want without cookie-cutter loadouts and then post revamp telling others that if you don't play exactly like I do you're wrong and "stupid."

Uhm, it's just health... I know its important but you're over selling it. I could use the same logic and say with increased vit and crit power chance etc.... Everyone in the raid will get more power, more power leads to enhanced rotations and less bar draining from the heals to the dps etc.

Why are you so against giving the other roles their stats, but so for giving dps their stats?

Damage is king? Really?

I run alerts with 4 dps just like Anyone else but that opinion is well, dishonest. With your logic.... Just make all artifacts have might/prec and dps crits

Then we will have another case of excluding players in LFG once discovered the min/max amount of artifacts rank, to boost the dps max damage for raids. If the devs really wanna push for a group dynamic, they need to be more creative with these artifacts booster. It needs to feel almost like a coincidence that "Hey, this guy artifact that boost his resto, just so happens to boost my damage when my hp is full".

Whats going on now is too linear.

Its funny when you think about it, especially if you were there to read that thread. The devs got shutdown by testers when they tried to suggest that spending hp after maxing stats should be common sense cause you know "a dead dps is a useless dps". They really getting their last laugh now.

I can almost taste that man snarky comment.

I haven't bothered to read all that testing feedback post, but i read enough to see that a green name said they will add more artifacts "eventually".

My pre-stats revamp electric dps is tingling. That statement can be interpreted in many ways, but IF what we have now(according to obsiden post) is the only artifacts thats gonna release from test then that is a no bueno and is very uncreative from the devs part as they are too linear. Like i said, these artifacts needs to be creative and almost feel like a coincidence.

As for trolling well..... People argued for trolling on test server revamp to be like it is currently, so I give up on that topic.