Test Discussion Stats Revamp: Powerset Bug Bash

Arc lightning does the same average base damage as throwing knives and a bunch of other 200 cost abilities.

Overheat is weak. I reported that in testing. So are delayed abilities like Overcharge and spontaneous combustion.

Tesla ball his a splitting issue. It will do below average damage against 1 or 2 enemies, close to average against 3, and monster damage against 8. Avair is aware of this, but I don't know if a change is planned or not.

Electrogenesis depends on two targets staying alive to do its damage, and because of that it was buffed to its current level.

Terror Tendrils was doing about 40% higher damaged than similar abilities when it was on test. Except when it hit targets multiple times in which case it was doing supercharge-level damage. I haven't retested its base damage-- it may have been over-nerfed.

Vengeance and Tesla blast actually do almost the exact same DPS. Vengeance has a faster animation and will cost more power. Soul bolt also has a fast animation so its base damage is on the low side, but its overall DPS was OK when I tested

Yep, they're different abilities. Different power costs. Plus savage growth will knockdown. I don't think it's a bug.

Can you confirm whether a group member gets the HoT (pheromone) from savage growth?

Hello

number between Artic gust and Avalanche with 14938 might.

Artic gust cost 200 power 0sec cooldown with PI:
13996 total, 4112 max, 40 % crit, 5 hit, 1 target.

Avalanche cost 300 power 3.5sec cooldown, don't have PI:
14504 total, 4236 max, 40% crit, 5 hit, 1 target.

For 3.5 sec, 300 power cost and the risk to be interupted it is not enough make avalanche using PI.

Bug Frost blast:
If you are interupted or if you cancel yourself, the cooldown don't begin directly it's like for the game you still cast the power (we can hear the sound). So if you are interupted the cooldown becomes 5 or 6 sec. Same bug with his brother fire.

You can't really do comparisons like that for everything, If you nerfed all the powers you have mentioned electric would stink. Sometimes its about how all the powers work together in a loadout and on 3 or less targets elec is only average, where it shines is anything over 3 targets cause of 2 powers but imo that don't bother me cause its not unbeatable.

If I had to guess the issue with this is that bug form isn't given the role identity of a healer so it loses the 35% resto buff that comes with being in healer stance.

Makes sense. They need to fix that because I see a lot of bugs flying around. [Pun intended ]

Yes, you must do comparisons like that if we want balance. Not holding every power to the same standards is getting what we have now with nature & elec. Luckily the Devs are listening to others and this is going to be rectified.

Atomic PvP healing changes are already in for internal builds. It won't be long after the posted changes of this thread.

awesome TY

Id be much happier if they reduced the cool down for avalanche again. We have a 0 sec cool down for arctic gust that does more damage, but needs to be closer, while avalanche has always been weaker with a little more range. Id like to see this cool down for avalanche set the same way as for arctic gust.

1. Terror Tendrils is actually a 0.5 second cooldown which causes a severe damage reduction. Even your timing stamp of 0.7s as opposed to 0.4s shows this.

2. I can fit 12-13 Vengeance uses in a 10s parse. I can get 7-8 Tesla Blasts in a 10s parse. 1.5x as much as damage would roughly equal the same dps. Funny enough this is one of the comparisons where the timing of the parse was left out.

3. Pebble Blast vs. Frost Snipe I can't justify. I'd prob have that checked to see if Frost Snipe has a cc damage reduction as a bug if a line of code still has it reading as possibly rooting/encasing a target. It was slightly slower than Pebble blast and even with the pi added, it didn't hit as hard.

4. Electrogenesis requires you to get close to the targets you want to apply the heavy dot on, while Overheat allows for simple targeting. Electrogenesis also has a longer animation time than Overheat which is going to be a damage increase. Fire also has the ability to clip Stoke Flames for an additional dot which is an ability that elec does not have. At 16373 might, for an Overheat parse without the pi I got 12360 total damage. With the Pi, that would've been 13596 damage. Stoke Flames I got 10438 damage. For a total of ~24k damage on use. Electrogenesis I got 24472 damage. Which means they're roughly the same with electrogenesis having a slight edge in damage but a longer animation time.

5. Tesla Ball also has a longer animation time than Psychic Prison which means more damage. You also only did 8 targets. On 3 targets, Psychic Prison does more damage than what Telsa Ball does which indicates a trade off.

I'm also wondering how/why you have 0/25/26% crit. To have a perfect crit chance which I've never seen in my life is suspect.

Will these changes affect PVE at all?

I visited test again and did some more testing against 3 sparring targets this time! Arc Lightning still does much more damage than other similar abilities and on top of that Arc Lightning heals you and your allies which these other abilities don't do at all. Isn't healing meant to reduce damage compared to abilities that don't heal?

• Arc Lightning (200 power cost, 3s cooldown, electrifies enemies):
  • Damage [0.2s] 14442/s - 14442 total - 3 hits (8202 max) - 1 (33.3%) crit - 3 targets
• Repulse (200 power cost, 3s cooldown, polarizes enemies):
  • Damage [0.0s] 10090/s - 10090 total - 3 hits (5088 max) - 1 (33.3%) crit - 3 targets
• Mass Levitation (200 power cost, 3s cooldown, terrifies enemies, vulnerable to interrupt):
  • Damage [2.5s] 3628/s - 9071 total - 18 hits (812 max) - 6 (33.3%) crits - 3 targets

I retested these with 60 second parser and they seemed to have similar damage/s but I still think if there is a 50% difference in damage then the power cost should be 50% higher also. 12 times 100 is 1200 power cost for Vengeance during the 10 seconds. 8 times 150 would also be 1200 so I think Tesla Blast should cost 150 power instead of 100 if you wanted them to be balanced with each others... Nothing was left out from the parses. They are direct copy paste of what the parser says after using the ability and waiting for the after combat summary. (I know now that it isn't a good way to test spammer abilities)

Electrogenesis uses 200 power. Overheat clipped with Stoke Flames uses 600 power in total. I think they are far from being balanced because why would Fire player have to spend 600 power for same damage that Electric player gets with 200 power...?

I chose the parses that had same critical chance because comparing parses of same critical chance is more accurate way of comparison. If I would compare for example 100% critical parse from Repulse to 0% critical parse from Arc Lightning it would look like Arc Lightning is weaker (3 criticals of around 5000 vs 3 non-criticals of around 4000). Also choosing the parses that critical chance is closest to your actual critical chance (Mine is 26%) means it represents more closely what the ability would do on average over a long period of time. Choosing a parse of 0% critical chance means that criticals are not taken into account.

I'm glad someone is posting the comps between the powers. I have a few that I will post within the next few days.

You are right though, Elec's power comps are exceeding most of the other powers and need to be looked at a lot closer.

If i was to do those tests i would do base damages, parsing stuff out like that isn't always the most accurate testing method to compare damages of single abilities cause of a few factors and like i said in a earlier post sometimes you have to put everything together in a loadout and see where it gets you. Also you can't always compare abilities across power sets cause some work differently. You especially shouldn't try to make comparisons with a power like mental that we know needs some improvements unless you are comparing them to show that the abilities from mental are under preforming and need some love.

Electric actually parses pretty average (on the 3 targets and single) and when you put all those abilities together the damage it does is actually right on par with most powers. Anyway none of the comparisons you have shown are the reason electric excels in some situations thats a completely different thing.

Arc lighting has a stun effect, while Repulse has a repel in the air and then knock down so you're looking at 1 damage reduction compared to 2.

Mass levitation has a levitate which is a damage penalty.

From the quantum thread referring to this post:


We know that cc effects have varying cc penalties which would make a sense (a stronger cc effect would have a higher damage nerf, same goes for utility strength). These values were not told to us at any point but for the purpose of your testing you would probably want to PM a dev and see if you can get those exact numbers for each type to make sure things are doing damage as intended.

Taking this into account, with looking at known differences of up to 20%, if you have several stacking nerfs, it could add up to a significant damage difference. Say for one reason or another, arc lightning is only hit with 2 10% damage nerfs for the stun and the healing, compared to Repulse which could be hit by 2 20% nerfs. If the base damage of both had the same animation time for say 18,000 damage. Arc would get nerfed to 14,400 damage while Repulse would be nerfed down to 10800, which is roughly where they are (lucked up I'm assuming).

Whether or not those damage reduction amounts are balanced to the community would be a good question and is a reason why early on as well as throughout, the idea for removing these reductions for say cc and heals was brought up because it caused issues. For those that are quantum on live, until this update came in where they removed the cc from Distortion Wave, DW was actually hitting weaker than Inspiral Waves and it's a 100 power cost compared to a 300, which shows how heavy some of these nerfs are.

As for 600 power cost compared to 200 power cost, Mighty and Crappy showed this to the developers before the stats revamp got released:

Each of the powersets have varying cost, some noticeably highers than others in order to reach their full damage potential such as Rage, Quantum, Atomic, and HL as a general principle. None of these powers were actually changed significantly power cost wise and some of them got nerfed through various factors such as the rifle tap nerf hurting quantum, hl got a combo damage nerf a few days after this chart if I remember right, Atomic 1tap got nerfed damage wise while the power cost was the same because they shifted it toward Atomic 2tap which still had a high power cost because it had been buffed previously in an attempt to match 1tap damage parsing, which eliminating a power friendly Atomic playstyle. Rage was fortunately the only combo power that could actually barely run its full damage rotation with 1 troll since its release on test while the others have had moments where they required 3-4 to reach their max potential. These differences we noticed and pointed out, but significant priority/interest wasn't placed into this aspect of balance which is why this problem still exists on live. It's a problem that has obviously created a meta where some powers can do well given the mixture of 1 troll and 2 troll runs on live, but given the current lack of understanding of how power out works after revamp, most controllers can't do a 2 troll set up and still comfortably power an all out Atomic or Light player. In the case of Fire vs. Elec, in a 2 troll situation, you wouldn't even notice the power cost difference between the two. You'd only see it in 1 troll or by yourself situations. The reason I basically look the other way at this difference instead of caring like others is because the actions and updates I've seen for powersets take raid performance as a priority as opposed to solo content where an extra 400 power cost every 12 seconds is something ignorable under the right circumstances which causes less problems for them, and I can't have an issue with raid performance taking the priority given, as predicted, everyone complained about how their power performed in a raid relative to the other powers present. There are few threads made where a person will compare dps in an alert or in a duo outside of something drastic like the nature bug that's currently fixed. This is an issue that I hope is revisited in the future but unfortunately was not a pressing enough issue to stall out the release date of the stats revamp that was supposed to be released "when it's ready"

Fire's Stoke Flames also took a damage hit at the end of the revamp in this hotfix. Stoke Flames used to be an all out dot just as strong as Overheat and Inferno almost. Under those days, the 600 power cost clip between them at that point was stronger than Electrogenesis, but it was shifted to more healing out in order to not create an obvious bias of being the strongest dot setup in the game.

As an additional note, the controller powersets were able to get around the cc damage reductions for a few powers but moving it to only being available in controller role (meant for cc so it makes sense and its an easy cop out). Healers and tanks unfortunately don't have that easy change to support role only. Or at least I don't think they do. That would be for the people that play those powersets to know if that cc or heal or tank aspect of a power can be moved into the support role only is still viable.

I cant go test it again because i switched to water yesterday but i was noticing SG not doing a knockdown at all sometimes. Before the revamp it for sure did it every time. After the revamp nope. For example i would run up to the low level infantry adds in wc and use SG and no knockdown at all sometimes. Was something changed that im unaware of? Has anyone else also noticed this?