Dear Developers: Concerns Regarding Learning/Playing Roles and The Community

I think they need to incorporate some of what you have said throughout the entire game. The community pretending old content is irrelevant does not seem to be working.

Thanks for answering. I have participated enough in this thread, so I think I will leave it here, and let other people voice their concerns/opinions.

I believe the devs should revisit all group content and add feats for playing through in support role Only. feat is not earned if you switch roles after content begins.

It's fundamentally a problem when someone is capable of soloing a content within a group despite voluntary restraint. You virtually have what Mepps possesses during DCUO presentations, an "I win button". Why not let Daybreak give this "button" to everyone?

Clamping allows newer players the chance to go back and experience content to pre date them also. More experience which makes better players

The gear is primarily there so you can actually survive the latest content. Let alone that enough of it grants you access to newer and more "challenging levels".

At this point I believe its less about fun and more about "getting it done and over with".

And the player ruining content for new players by steamrolling is wrong as well while you're on a roll. We agree to disagree, but regardless of your and my view there needs to be a good squishy medium don't you agree with that? All I know is I've queued up random raids before, times I've been asked to slow burn for new players in which I just switch to tank and kinda mess around getting objectives while holding aggro for the group, times I've asked if anyone would like me to go slow so at teir players can get the feel for the instance with no response. But not everyone is gonna speak up, cares to ask or knows how to use the different chat channels. So there really needs maybe an option while solo que'n raids whether you want clamped or un-clamped version if the devs refuse us an all instances teleporter mod which could possibly be a source of revenue on the market place.

This can be accomplished by just giving styles with a cr tied to it to open new content. I understand facerolling content is a problem for some. I also understand there is not an easy fix for this. Let me paint you a picture;

Suppose stat clamping comes to be. All content will have to be stat clamped, because at some point, it will become face roll able. With a stat clamped game, there really is no need for stat based gear. Everybody has the same stats. Content gets made/adjusted to meet those stats. Seems like a good idea so far right? With no stat progression, people wont feel the need to replay content for better gear, wont be spending money on trk, because mods aren't needed. Skill points wont affect clamped stats so you might as well get rid of those to. Now if the loss of money from replays/TRK isn't enough, the game will most likely loose the min/maxers, because there isn't a way to separate from the average or clamp. Not only do you potentially loose min/maxers, they also run the risk of loosing people who don't want to play clamped.

Now imagine you are on the dev team. You have to come up with the resources to make this happen. Time is probably the biggest resource they are lacking at the moment. Just not enough personnel to go around. Second it is a huge financial risk to take, with no guaranteed payoff. Do you ok the project, knowing you might loose a lot of paying customers, to please players who may not become customers at all? Do you ok the project, knowing there are other options players can and should be exploring to deal with this? The devs are pretty smart when coming up with systems, but they also have a way of actually not giving you what you want, while telling you it is what you want.

I can't agree to a medium ground, because there are already plenty of options to deal with this. When people try those options and can prove they don't work, then maybe I will agree something drastic as stat clamping would need to be done.

Stat clamping solves this how?

I am all for a mod generator for walk ins. Give us this, then you can stat clamp until your heart is content.

Id rather see CR capping. queue up for a 30-53 cr mission then your CR gets cut to 53.
or boost the instance to the higher cr.

Unfortunately, Mepps plan didn't work that way. People are not able to level when they are ready. If a player turns level 30 and ques for all the T1 Duos and Alerts, at least 7 out of the 9 ques will have an OP player who will breeze through the content. The new player will get gear from content, and if the gear is not "intergrates when equipped" the gear will count toward the new player's CR, thus raising the level. If the player has run all their 5 solos, 5 Duos, and all 4 alerts with an OP player, they most likely will hit Level 43 and be T2 by the end of the day.

That new player could continue to just run T1 Solos, Duos, Alerts, however the Solos will only teach them how to DPS and the most likely the Duos and Alerts will have OP players doing the heavy lifting so the new player never learns anything.

It's natural that most people want to get to endgame as quickly as possible. However, they need to know what to do when they get there so they don't waste their time getting kicked out of raid after raid, and the time of the players who assume that since the player is qualified for endgame content, they know how to play their role.

There should be a balance, and currently there is none.

Well this has been an interesting read. I've been playing this game for about a month and a half. I have one 30 lvl 53 CR 38 SP character, the rest of my chars are under 30, most in the 20 range.

To comment, I'm going to have to give you a little background. I am a comic book nerd. Always have been. I once saw this game come out (back when you had to pay for access to the game) and got all excited. Ran into some tough financial times and could never afford to. During the time I just couldn't justify the payment I heard something consistently from all of my friends. They tend to know my gaming characteristics pretty well. They said that the game was an RPG, but that because of timing and combinations it played more like an action game. I have always struggled with these types of things. It really killed all interest in the game, because there is nothing worse then playing a game you should be enjoying and ending up throwing your controller because you just can't keep up with a game that is supposed to be an RPG. (Always been terrible at button combination games, probably will never change). These friends of mine played the game for a few weeks and quit because it simply was not their cup of tea for similar reasons I never played.

When I first went through the opening instance it was either harder, or I just was so clueless that I almost got killed in it. I played for free for two weeks then got legendary to get my second character. I beat it with that second character barely taking a hit. Not sure when that got nerfed or if it has something to do with paying for the game or not, but it definitely felt different the second time. On my first character I died in almost every boss battle at least once and it took me forever to beat anything. I literally never would have beaten the aquaman instance had I not found someone to help me because I just could not kill what I needed to kill in time before the glitch happened (that most seasoned players swear does not exist, but thats because they beat the instance within 2-3 rounds). I'll tell you, if it were much harder then what it was (and I'm sure the reason why I struggled was because I am not good with combinations) I would never have purchased the subscription in the first place.

The reason I feel this is relevant to the discussion is this. When DCU decided to make their game free. Play free and game is free for download. No up front payment necessary to enjoy most of the game. When they did that their business model changed. People like myself who would never have picked up the game for money, even if it were 10 bucks used or something, now started to play the game. They must have felt like the community was not large enough to sustain and that they needed new blood infusion to keep it relevant and active. This created the balancing act you guys are talking about. If this game were much harder I would stop my subscription. Mainly because I just don't have the time to have a mentor. I had a guy earlier, greatly helpful, trying to help me out at the new atomic role (which I love btw). He would literally never run out of power and he'd have his special buff aura almost always on. I would run out of power and the buff would only last a minute. No matter how he tried to explain it I just didn't get it in the small amount of time we had to talk about it (don't have a mic or it may've worked out better).

My experience since hitting 30 and particularly after finding this website has improved dramatically. But, the ways my experience has improved is by having some higher level players around to watch them play. Every once in a while I see a high CR tank or other support role. Theoretically helps me learn how to tank by watching, but mostly it just allows me to be able to have more fun not being mobbed by a ton of guys and not being able to get myself out of it. I've largely gotten better by the gear that I've found, and in smaller increments by learning the game. I find it to be rewarding. Can I understand the frustration of the more established player that feels that people are not prepared enough when they have to play with me in however long it takes to get there? Sure. But I sure want to try out the higher level stuff because I like the storylines and characters that are within them. I mean, the solo's don't do much for me other then trying to get trophies cause I've played them all a couple dozen times a piece by now. Its more rewarding to see the newer content. Without the chance to do that I have to admit I'd lose interest. Cause the chances that with the time I have available to play and practice this game vs the time required to get truly good enough to beat the game as it used to be (from what I'm told) it just wouldn't be worth it.

Experienced gamers always underestimate the percentage of players who are "casual players". Those who would like to get better if they could but their main concern is playing content and having fun. Most will take instruction. Most will try to be mentored (most, I'd argue from my experience will fail to get much help without coming on the forum), but when it comes to game enjoyment just to be quite frank your being upset at me for how good I am doesn't even effect it. I don't know how, particularly in raids, that you can even tell other then generally somethings not going right exactly who isn't doing things right. There is so much going on that it can be a bit overwhelming. Particularly in the one with the lantern prison. That was insane. Anyway, my point is that from a business perspective its a balancing act. Its one thats not particularly easy.

As far as clamping, I can't imagine I'd like that. One of the things about an RPG is working to get better armor and weaponry and having it pay off for you. It kinda defeats the purpose for the game format to do it to me. *shrug*

It's different for the players at level 30 because they don't know what they are doing yet. Look at it from this perspective. You start a new job and you don't know any of the policies and procedures at this job. You get paired with a veteran who's been there since day one and has the system down pat. The veteran just wants to go home as soon as possible, so rather than teaching you anything and making sure you understand what you are doing, the Vet does all the work for you. The vet does this for a whole year, and outside of little things here and there, you have no understanding of what is going on. Then one day you show up and the Vet quit, now the boss is looking at you to do the same job, at the same efficiency. You are a year into this job and are completely clueless.

That's what is happening to many level 30 players. They join the game on Monday and by Sunday they are CR140+ with 50SP in LFG for shouting to Tank/Troll/Heal BD, and have no clue what to do and how to do it.

As far as them having the ability to leave the content, the issue is that if they leave and reque, they most likely will get paired with another OP player who is running for styles, base items, exobits blusters, or feats. Since I had to start over on PC coming from PS4 I have created 3 brand toons and helped leaguemates with their toons. I say with no exaggeration, when I was low level at least 80% of my ques for Duos, Raids, and Alerts had at least one player who was 20+ CR higher than I was. So leaving doesn't solve their problem because when they reque they most likely will be in the same exact situation.

This is why the relevancy band was extended. Once you hit tier 2 nothing in tier 1 is going to benefit you gear wise. You can run t1 stuff forever if you so choose. Mepps plan works just fine, it's the players fault for not taking advantage of the system. All the choices are in the players hands on how to level their character, learn their role/power.

It just seems to me, players don't want to make an effort. Under the system in play now, you can run stuff once, get enough gear to level to the next tier, then repeat until end game. Notice I didn't mention getting carried, or a high level face rolling content. Under the current system if you don't plan out how you want to level your character, the game will level it for you. That is the real problem, not over geared players. SO how about the ones complaining get that fixed first.

Last I don't know how many times it must be pointed out, if you find yourself in an instance that is not fun, or not set up like you would like it, leave and reque or lfg for a group that meets your criteria.

Asking the game to set up the perfect conditions for your win, is asking to much out of a game. The que is a means to get into content, if you get in, it has met it's obligation.

There has been great discussion, so I'm glad I posted and hoped the discussion helped.

Since my post I've a number of experiences with the game and one today in particular that really bothered me. On my main toon I qued for Bombshell Paradox. The group I was placed in had 4 players at CR140+, including myself, and 4 other players CR132+. We started with 2 Tanks, 2 Healers, 1 Troll, 3 DPS.

From the onset there was no in game communication from players. When we got to the first boss it became clear that one of the two tanks did not know how to play their role. After we wiped a few times, I suggested for one of the tanks to switch to DPS. The tank turned and we beat the first boss.

We beat the second boss on the first try. There were some issues with pick ups, but we got through it. I also noticed that one of two healers did not know how to heal properly.

We got to the last boss and the tanks had some confusion so we wiped. After the tanks worked it out we tried again and were doing well until the Healers and Trolls got knocked out and none of the DPS picked them up.

At that point, instead of communicating, regrouping, and going over what needed to be done, one of the 140+CR players stated we didn't have high enough CRs to complete the raid and began a vote to disband the instance.

The minimum CR for BP is 113, and the suggested CR is 129, so by all accounts, our group was OP for the raid. CR wasn't the issue. The issue was that we had players who didn't know their roles and how to run the raid. Rather than taking a few extra minutes to talk and work as a team, which is the intent of the game, close all communication and cast aside people who "aren't on our level".

That was one situation upon many this week which has led to me cancelling my Legendary Membership today. It's been an interesting and fun two years. I wish you all the best.

Under those circumstances, I am to blame. If I had been there for a year, and haven't made an effort to learn what my job is, that is on me, not the vet who has quit.

That has nothing to do with high cr people though. It's the system in play now. It doesn't matter who is in an instance with you, if you clear it, you will most likely get gear. Get enough gear and you are end game in no time. Going to end game in a matter of days is not because of high cr people, its because of the system in play.
Getting instances stat clamped isn't going to solve the player at end game to quick scenario and quite frankly it has no place in this debate. Stat clamp everything and you will still have the player at end game to quick who doesn't know what to do.

Let me ask you this. As a level 30 player, solely running T1 content, how you learn to play a role outside of DPS or any mechanics at all if you spend 80% of your time playing with OP players who kill everything before you could get aggro, take no damage for your to heal, kill all the adds before you could start your DPS rotation, and don't need POT?

We had a few league mates leveling up alts so we walked into Khandaq. Every boss was dead before the low tier alts could do anything, and sometimes before they even arrived to the boss fight. How does a new player learn anything under those circumstances?

Thanks for sharing your experience. It was an interesting read.

"That has nothing to do with high cr people though. It's the system in play now" That's my point, it's the system in play now. So if there are going to be changes made, it's has to be made to the system, not by the players.

To your other point about the job analogy, Who you would go to make sure you were learning what you should? You'd have to go to your boss and say "hey, this guy is great, but I'm not learning anything, could someone else train me. That's what we're saying, we're going to the boss, who are the developers and saying, "hey this system does more harm than good, could you tweak it.

Clamping was one suggestion. There are a myriad of things the Devs could do. Clamping is not that deep either. We get clamped for every seasonal that comes out and people run them all them all time. We get clamped for LPVE and people run that all the time. Clamping Lower Teir content would be no different. They already clamp you.