Dev Discussion DLC13: Throne of the Dead (Elite) Raid - Official Feedback Thread

Hades still clips his Paintheon with Staff Spin, and unless the target is immune/shielded, they're gone. There is absolutely no way to tell when that happens, correct me if I'm wrong, and the clip itself seems bugged/unintentional.

I reported this as well. If you can face Hades away from the group, it shouldn't hit anyone but the tank. But WW and Circe make it very difficult to control the positioning of Hades. We encountered this multiple times, however we got lucky in our run, where it didn't happen to us. This really needs to be looked at.

You assumed i didnt ....when i did ....i have nothing to prove to you at all.

My gear 'SP'and talent speak for itself...

I dont have to show boat just for bragging rights .im not the type ,.....clearly .

Mental trolls np. DPS might be a different thing.
Also a tank in our league who's fire can pretty much solo the adds at first boss, we've done lb with him, didn't finish but trust me, it wasn't his fault we were wiping in a 3-2-2-1 setup with a solo troll and 3 dpses.

Later on, I've done it with a league of old friends with an earth tank. I was healing and sometimes he took a ton of damage to the point of *F*** he's down* scenarios where he literally had no health left, but he survived even with solo heals (I was celestial, the other heal was sorcery).

I don't mind increasing the amount of adds that spawn, but make it more certain what adds that spawn. For example every banish has rotations in which a punisher spawns, then a bowmaster for example. So everyone has to go through the same thing. If you get constant punishers it's unfair vs groups that get constant totem masters.
I applaud their incentive to make the raid hard, but luck shouldn't be a decisive factor in finishing the raid.

28.03.2015 Server first EUPS done elite

Just completed elite again with a fire & ice tank. So fire's still viable in end game content ( at least the tanking side)

Done a no "cheese" run lol vid soon for you <3

No your proof validates your opinion, you have no proof so therefor your opinion is not even valid

Nice assumptions once again, you're on a roll. There's no accomplishment to diminish here, it's a game for starters, an incredibly easy one at that but beating a raid, nerfed to the point only luck determines it's difficulty now, is nothing short of menial at this point and if you, or anyone else, need some sort of praise for doing so as if this validates your existence in any way, you've got your priorities mixed up.

You beat it with PuGs?

It's safe to say that at this point in the thread (after more feedback from a number of players), that luck is playing a significant factor (totem masters vs generics/bowmasters/punishers, WW/Circe playing with Hades' aggro, etc).

Testing eliteness is not about luck, rather about consistency and logical variety (as in if a punisher and bow master spawn they shouldn't cause the raid to go from very hard to near impossible, even with competent group coordination).

6 people in the league and 2 people from friends list

Just took him down on USPC. It is indeed about timing and control of Hades' banishments, and much less about premature burn. However, the luck factor with getting Bowmasters/Punishers vs not getting them at all should definitely be looked at, because, as many have already stated, the fairness for all groups is meddled with otherwise.

Also, once again, please, look into Hades' Paintheon clip with his Staff Spin; as I (USPC) and BRITTENY (USPS) and many others have brought this up numerous times for the past few hotfixes.

Congrats!

I never said proof in any one of my posts,why not try being less of a fanboy ?
I dont need to showcase a lucky run as this raid now is about luck and the fact that SOME that video thier hades fight with No special adds proves my point .
Now please move along ....i feel like you have nothing better to do then post nonsense about what you believe is proof from someones post .

We were kinda apathetic the last few weeks, but after we saw many folks here beat it, we tried it as well.

Just tried it twice, the first day only a few wipes but we got the feeling we were going to complete it. Yesterday tho, it took us about 90 min to complete it, luck factor included, a few afks also.

We did a pretty conservative round 2 with two Celestial Healers, 1 Quantum DPS, 1 Celestial DPS, 1 Gadgets Troll, 2 Rage tanks and 1 Ice tank. We could have kept always 1 DPS on Hades to speed up the burn, but we were more worried about the adds than for Hades.

Tbh, we didn't notice too much the luck factor, probably because we were lucky, but I can see how inconvenient this can be. The powers discrepancies is issue as well, but that battle is lost a long time ago.

To be honest, I don't understand what your saying. You said its cheese the way we beat throne elite, so am I just going to stand next to a punisher when she hits me for 50k? No I going to do what I need to so that I don't die, if I'm by a bowl I'll hide behind it, if there a wall I will do that too! I best it and you didn't. You said you did beat it but have zero proof. If you don't want to post it on forum then DM me it. But if you don't do that because you really have not beat it then please stop talking to me because your point are irrelavent to this thread bye now

Allright, it's time for Daddy himself to finally shed some feedback on the new and Improved Elite Hades:

First and Foremost, Elite Hades can DEFINITELY be defeated on a CONSISTENT basis now. The success of my people and I along with several other groups from different servers have prooved this. However, I must say the biggest contributing factor to Elite Hades now finally being defeatable, is the March 23rd, 2015 Hotfix. Click Here to read more information about this Hotfix.

The Raid was designed and meant for the Elite & Competent, so it is natural and expected that ONLY these Players are qualified and capable of completing the Raid. The remaining 99% belongs in the other 3 Raids (Including Normal Throne).

Now, unto the actual strategy of what we used to defeat Elite Hades. Our group chose the following setup for Elite Hades:

2 Tanks
3 DPS
2 Healers
1 Troller

Now, granted ALL 3 of our DPS's where Quantum. Additionally, ALL 3 of the Quantum DPS's ALL had Event Horizon in their Loadout. This makes Elite Hades LEAPS & BOUNDS easier than ever. It's not just quantum really, but ANY troller DPS player with a Power Back Supercharge for the group is a major plus. You assist the SOLO Troller as well as the group when the DPS can do something other than kill to assist everyone else.

I recognize the stigma of having Quantum DPS's in the fight against Elite Hades, and I can assure you I personally do not exclude ANY Competent Power in my Raids. But more Videos will be posted about other powers beating Elite Hades in due time.

Starting off the Fight, you want HARDCORE Burn on Elite Hades RIGHT AWAY. Supercharge, Orbitals, Pets, Supply, all those need to be on Rotation to get Hades to 80% Health in no time. Doing so will cause a quick Banishment. You want your 1st Banishment to happen IMMEDIATELY. Doing so will leave Hades alone with the 1 Zealous Shade that spawns.

The whole point of the Elite Hades Fight is to get Banished while there are MINIMAL or NO adds with Hades. So in other words, you want Hades to be alone as much and as often as possible during Banishments. If you fail to obey this concept, then you will ALWAYS fail against Him. Hades Banishes players at 80%, 60%, 40% and 20% Health for a total of 4 Banishments during the Fight.

Since 1 Zealous Shade is the ONLY thing that spawns initially, you want to HASTEN the 1st Banishment. So HARDCORE burn to get to the 1st Banishment.

Now, once you are Banished, here is where the mechanics of Banishment need to be followed:

DPS

Healer----------------Tank

Troller

Allright, the best way to handle the Banishment against Elite Hades is for EVERYONE to meet up at the Troller section. Since the Troller is the FARTHEST person from the DPS, it makes sense to do so.

So, the Healer will go to his RIGHT and lure his add to the Troller > The Tank will go to his LEFT and lure his add to the Troller > The Troller himself will REMAIN where he is and just stun/dps his own add > The DPS will kill his own add and choose either left or right and go all around to the Troller where EVERYONE meets up at and kills all 3 of the adds there.

This is without question to best and most effective and efficient way of handling the Banishment in the Elite Hades Fight. Support Roles CAN bring DPS gears in and Solo their own add, but that is just extra work and really unnecessary. I tried and tested that method before with 3 videos of it in this thread. Everyone meeting up at the TROLLER section is the BEST way to handle Banishment, HANDS DOWN.

Now, obviously the Tank, Healer and Troller are still DPSing all 3 of their adds together, but they are ultimately waiting for the DPS to come and finish the job. By using this method, Banishment should CONSISTENTLY last 1 minute AT THE MOST! Anything more means your group is moving too slow and is not doing something correctly.

Meanwhile up above with Hades, The 2nd Tank, whether it is the tank on Hades or the Tank on Adds, needs to immediately ensure Hades is under control while the other tank is in Banishment. The 2 remaining DPS in the arena are to SLOW down or STOP their Burn on Hades altogether and just wait for the people in Banishment to return. This will prevent another sudden Banishment once everyone is reunited, which could potentially cause a wipe if the Banishment was not PLANNED.

Once you are out of Banishment, you are going to first SCAN the arena to see if there are any additional enemies alongside Hades. Here is the LAW to follow after you get out of the 1st Banishment:

• If there are ONLY Totem Masters OR Zealous Shades in the Arena > FOCUS ALL BURN ON HADES! Totem Masters and Zealous Shades can all be taken out by someone who is Shaded, so do not waste your time or your burn trying to kill them. Instead, coordinate your Shade Form and ensure that shaded person takes out the Totem Master and Zealous Shades. Obviously, if noone is shaded and these Enemies exist, you will have to ignore Hades and focus fire the Totem Master, but if someone is shaded and these Enemies exist, focus all your burn on Hades.

• If there are ANY other Adds that exist in addition to or besides the above 2 Enemies > FOCUS ALL BURN ON THESE ENEMIES AND IGNORE HADES. Remember I said earlier that you want to get Banished while Hades is as alone as possible? Well, here is another reason. If the Arena has a bunch of adds AT ALL (whether or not Totem Masters and Zealous Shades exist), you MUST take out these adds as quickly as possible before continuing to Burn Hades. These enemies CANNOT be killed by a Shaded person and MUST be killed the old fashioned way, so If you fail to cleanup the Arena of these adds and get Banished, you risk wiping as the remaining 4 people in the Arena will not have a Troller and sufficient manpower to defend themselves against too many adds. So, always ensure you clear up any additional adds which may spawn BEFORE forcing a Banishment.

Basically that's all there is to it with the Elite Hades Fight. You just follow and obey those 2 key bullets above and follow the Banishment Guideline I mentioned, and you will never have any Issues at all defeating Elite Hades. Coordinate and Call out who gets Shaded and also watch for Hade's Reflection ability because if you are too careless, that will kill you easily.

Again, the whole point of the fight is to control Banishment and ensure you ONLY get banished when there are little to no enemies left with Hades. As long as you follow this simple Mechanic of the fight, you will always be victorious.

Does luck have anything to do with winning the fight? It CAN. But not necessarily the end all factor. The Paradox Tyrant jailing the Solo Healer and the only Tank while he was Pinning the Ravager back in EO days was definitely an unlucky situation, but an Elite and Competent group of people can easily bounce back from that.

The same thing here. The ABSOLUTE worst case Scenario against Elite Hades is having Punishers/Bowmasters along with a set of adds AND get Banished. And EVEN THEN, you can STILL recover (Highly unlikely, but STILL possible )

But if you followed the rule I mentioned about making sure the arena is free of threats as much as possible prior to getting Banished, you would have taken out those Bowmasters and Punishers the old fashioned way before continuing to Burn Hades and completely avoid being in that situation in the first place.

Remember, Hades Banishes at 80%, 60%, 40%, and 20% Health for a total of 4 Banishments. If you burn too slow or too fast, your group is now at risk of wiping. The fight requires coordination, skills, tactics, understanding of mechanics, and just plain and simple > Elite & Competent-ness!

Here is the video of everything I just mentioned in action (It is also from a Troller Perspective).



Final Feedback:
Ensure you are playing with the best and most Elite & Competent PVE Players in the game when attempting Elite Hades. You've heard Daddy say it once, you've heard him say it a million times (US-PC knows that the best allright) > Elite & Competent. That is what this Raid is designed for and what the upcoming Survival Mode will DEMAND if you want to have a chance at success. Get your loot, and get your satisfaction because trust me, it is a MAJOR satisfaction to defeat something that was Impossible for almost 2 whole months.

Next Goal > DeathProof Feat & 116CR (with the Mask of Omnipotence). Elite Throne is now officially on Farm Status!

Anyone have a combat log example of this issue?

Thanks!

Hmm...