Work In Progress Improvements to the Loot System

very good post. only wish you had posted it on a weekday, devs rarely see anything posted on weekends

I agree the new loot system seems much better than the current one certainly better than older ones like when we had ninja looters infest the game. (and no it wasn't better for leagues either, people should do some math there)

I think those questions you pose are the difference between a good loot system and a great one. Although I don't think we'd be worse off even if the answer is no to all of them. A few of my thoughts on the points you make

1. I seriously doubt they'd make it more likely to get the specific piece you want. That's not what they said, as you well point out. What I would love to see and I don't think would cut too much into their profits and the longevity of dlcs, is a system that makes it slightly less likely that you get a repeat several times in a row.
So for people here who have gotten a back piece 5x in a row that would happen a lot less often. Say every time you get a rare piece, you get 25% less chances of getting it again the next time until you're guaranteed a different piece. Once you get something different it resets. So this won't prevent you from getting multiple back pieces, just not many of them in a row like some people claim.

2. I don't think it's fair to say we'd be getting "much less loot" because R&D and base items are not guaranteed drops anyway. I get them around 20-30% of the time. If those items were guaranteed, then yes, we'd be getting much less loot, but they're not. So we're occasionally getting less loot, but usually just the same as always with the added benefit of choosing what you want.
Even for older content, I just ran all the solos last night and had 0 base items, and that's not entirely uncommon. People who farm those know I am right.
The new system would be awesome for base item farming, too bad it won't be implemented in older content

3. From the dev's OP, I think they'd like most people to get a rare piece within 5 boss fights. Their numbers say 90% of players get one by that point, so I would assume that was what they were aiming for originally and what they'd like the new system to help improve. Perhaps making the guaranteed threshold something between 5-8 boss fights. Which would be much better than what you anticipate.

4. I don't personally mind the cr differences, but I don't see them doing it again. I see them going the WotL 2 way and having normal raid gear be same as vendor with slightly better stats and elite gear 1 cr higher than vendor. That would make most people happy i think

5. Yeah, I know it would be much more work to implement a per dlc system instead of a "whatever rare drop fits the bill" regardless of tier, but I wouldn't mind waiting a bit longer if it meant we can run old content freely without fear of resetting our top tier rare counter with a codex drop from Seeds/unpaid or a Star helmet from Oan.

Overall a good update, with potential of being great. People who only want vendor gear will complain no matter what, but it's undeniable this would be much better than the current system if devs continue to listen to feedback in this thread.

I give it three thumbs up. (y) (y) (y)

This looks like a sign of them listening to their players and making a useful change...

https://forums.station.sony.com/dcu...-increase-slightly.231949/page-2#post-2995910

Simply make the vendor gear 100. And the raid gear slightly better. The same was done for Halls Of Power and War Of Light. If i have bad luck im stuck to buying all the 99 gear. Someone else who only ran it a few times would had better stats than me who ran it lots and los of times. Just change the already bought 99 gear to 100 and make the vendor sell 100 gear

My guess replay sales are down vs previous years DLC. AF1 went up against WOTL1 sales year vs year. WOTL1 had a great loot table and likely generated tons more replace sales then the latest DLC . So here comes the change based on Bussiness reasons , masked in for players benefit

USPS = I can get into an Alert a little faster if i Queue because for some reason no one wants a Mental DPS (even if I know what I'm doing, I have decent SP and good output); for a Raid? It varies - sometimes you can get a decent raid group together in minutes, other times you end up with a sewing circle that sits there and talks about random crap for the next half an hour without bothering to finish the group or even look at LFG again once you've invited them.

I don't know if anyone has said this. Can there be a way that there is an vote at the beginning of an instance to either have random drops or choose the old need/greed/pass system? That way if it's an all pug group, they can down vote and get random drops. If it's premade/league, then they can do the need/greed/pass system and have a better chance of dividing up the entire raids gear as needed. Just an idea we've had in the past. I know many leagues and friends that would enjoy this system.

can you pls consider putting exobits in the lootlist aswell.....

I have now done HoH 1 full run and first two bosses 2x and have not received a piece of gear. And I have completed LAB 3 times without gear. That is a pretty good dry streak right there...

That is 16 possible drops yet no gear. The first week I got nothing. Second and third week I got two pieces. My last run where I got something was a trinket. Been dry since. Very annoying. So now with the new systme I would be lucky to get a 100 piece. Buy with my luck it would be one of the few pieces I already have. LUCK again, and I do not call being lucky all that rewarding.

I have one league mate that always get a 100 piece every run. I hate running with him cause his response is, another one of X. He has like 4 weapons, etc...

One league mate has gotten 4 utility belts.

If the vendor and raid gear had the same item level, I do not think there would have been such an outrage on this topic. Yet the solution being presented is just as bad as making raid gear one item level higher than vendor gear. It also seems like a easy way out instead of working on a better longer term solution.

I sersiouly would like a poll created to see where the community sits on the thoughts on vendor and raid gear being equal or making raid gear item level one higher. I really am curious about this.

No that's something that doesn't need to be added to the loot table .

The point I was making is that trying to get the best gear in the game vs. buying the vendor gear is much more like buying a house. It cause some stress, frustration, and cost more to you as the player; that is the truth.

I also was trying to point out that a poll was never taken to get the community opinoin on how to structure Vendor vs. Raid gear? The issues with the loot is due to the higher CR that Raid gear provides now over vendor gear. There was not major issues with HoP and WotL II as Vendor and Raid gear had the same item level. My question to the development team is, why was a poll not created to determine what the community really wants? Plaicng a poll here, FaceBook, Twitter, and other media hubs can capture results to determine what the community really wants.

Here is the list I would put out there. Two question poll...

1. Do you belive that the loot system issue is due to Vendor Gear item level being one level below Raid?
   • Yes
   • No
2. Select the method below you believe provides the most balance for gear
   • Current System with Elite being 2 item level higher than Vendor and Raid being 1 item level higher than vendor
   • Elite being 1 item higher than vendor and Raid and Vendor gear item level the same with Raid gear having better stats
   • Vendor gear is the best gear - this will result in gear requiring more marks to buy
   • Get rid of vendor gear all together and make gear available only by drops

I mean a simple poll like this would help them out. After the poll results are anlayzed the data could be shared upon them creating / updating the gear progression if needed.

No, instead they reviewed out complaints and decided to modify the loot system without really digging into the problem. The problem with AFII was not the loot drop but the fact that the only way to really progress wasv with Raid drops. Due to how crappy the drop rate is in raids, complaints about drop rate showed up in the forums and other media. The truth is, if Raid and Vendor gear were equal, we would see less complaints around raid drops other than Throne Elite due to it dropping the highest gear.

The real problem has not been resolved. Time they sat down and read through lines as the complaints are not about the drops but about item level difference between Vendor and Raid gear.

I believe the system they want to implement is a step in the right direction; the next move, make standard Raid and Vendor gear equal item level with Raid gear having slightly better stats. That would resolve a lot of the issues I have with AF II.

@mepps Would it be possible to sacrifice 1 of the 2 gear drops on the last boss for a choosible weapon, keeping item level random? Also can we get rare weapon styles in vendor 22?

I thnk this is only good if all items in the loot table have the same percentage of a chance to fall. Does a head piece have the same percentage chance to fall as say a chest or back? Is that how it works?

Lets break it down then. There are 20 total possible rare items. That is 10 from weapons and 10 from actual gear. Since gear includes weapons that is 1/20. Ideally a player only needs 12( 1 weapon , gear + extra ring). So at a first start the chance of you getting something the player needs or wants is 12/20.

That is not a bad scenario when you look at it, even though that is how the loot system is set up right now just with 30% instead of 60% with the new loot system.

Lets say devs do decide to do every 5-7 bosses you should see a rare drop. Using the average number of 6. Every 2 alerts or 2 raids you should see a rare drop. From that rare drop there is a 12/20 % chance that it will be something you want/need.

That is a whopping 60% chance( that is pretty high).

Now lets assume you recieved a good drop. Lets also assume you are a dps only player, therefore any duplicate drops hurt you not help you.

With this system every piece of loot you want/need reduces the next percent chance. You start out at 60%( which is pretty high starting off), then with each drop you get a customer diminished return. What that means is you dont need a second neck or second hand piece. so it drops from 12/20 ->11/20 ->10/20 and so forth until you find that last piece which is a 1/20% chance

So looking at the new system. Starting off in a new tier within 6 boss fights there is a 60% chance that you will get something your character needs/wants. For regular terms, within 2 alerts or 2 raids.

With the current system we have starting off at a new DLC you could have 19 boss fights and still not have a drop that you need or want which is much less than 30%.

So with the new loot system devs proposed we are looking at a little over more than double the increase of a chance of good loot for your toon. Now given on the new DLC and this system your first rare loot drop will be a 60% chance of something you need/want, with 40% chance of you just not getting the weapon of your choice.

Now with different loot tables for different bosses the percentages after your first drop will go down of course but it is still more than double of what you are getting on live.

Is this loot system a super success. NO. But it provides more than double % of success that we see now in live and that in itself is a success.

IF and only IF the average number of bosses to be defeated for a rare drop is greater than 5-7, then we can call this system a fail.

Your work around for the loot system resolves some of the issues that the community has. What is still missing is adjustment to Raid gear level. I know that Raid gear will always be better than Vendor gear. I'm ok with that, but make the item level the same for those of us who feel slighted by the community. You do not realize the damage you are doing to players that are unlucky or simply do not run raids daily to get the best gear. These players, I bet this is the majority of your players if I'm not mistaken, are being being past up in LFG because CR is not 114 or 115. I know this is a community based game, but some do not come here or understand that there is little difference between 99 and 100 gear. So, please consider this request as one of many voices about making Raid and Vendor gear item level the same going forward with Raid having better non-defense stat. I'm sure most will applaud your efforts if this happens.

Two if you'd play both roles.

Really, tell that to people excluded because their cr isn't good enough. Normal progression would be buying vendor gear with the same cr as dropped gear, so no there isn't normal progression. Truly disgusting seeing people defend this blatant money grab system that plays off the communities insecurities and exclusive behavior. In the new dcuo (the one you're defending) If you don't replay enough and have good luck you may as well go sit in the corner because your cr won't be good enough for "elite". That system had players leaving in droves because they couldn't keep up with credit card warriors who paid their way to top cr. In the long run, this game will struggle to keep what few players it has left because no one (but the few remaining credit card warriors of course) enjoy this progression system.

People being excluded because of CR is not a Dev issue. It is a community issue. It is PLAYERS that set outrageous CR requirements to run content with their groups. The devs put in a minimum CR for all content. The devs can't change people's minds about near max CR requirements.

So they create the problem but it's not their issue to deal with, gotcha. #rationalization

The devs may have created cr and cr requirements but it is the community that has perverted the devs system into needing outrageous cr for content. No matter what the devs do to "fix" the community's need for outrageous CR, the players will still find a way to once more pervert the system.