So.....since your going to deny the facts I guess Ill posting that video But it's all fact, geared people get clamped, and pve gear people gets boosted up to fully geared avatar gear Fact Fact Fact
The only stats that get clamped are the stats that are not intended to be had in arenas, such as those from buff soders, generator mods etc and crits. If they are getting boosted to match someone in cr100 gear it is a bug as that's certainly not intended.
PvE gear gets boosted to the minimum not even close to the fully geared gear. The only stats that get clamped are Crits. By all means post a video. Edit: YUDOTHISTOMEENQUIRER
I'll be posting the video showing this then. But my stats go down by 300+ in resto, as a healer, and my gen mods only give me like 140 extra resto, I don't pop buff sodas or trinkets, This is definitely a stat clamping that's occurring
That shouldn't be intended then so by all means make a different thread about this (as this is way off topic) and if it turns out to be true I'll be yelling with you. EDIT: Also keep league buffs in mind too. And if you still are wearing a utility belt that can offset it as well.
The mepps and green comments don't mean anything, because the iconic solo take more skill and is harder than necro. It was even when those comnents were made. The pvp community isn't small because lack of skill, it's small because to most of the community it suck. I can see punishing someone because he left his teammate hanging, but to punish players to not keep fighting a losing battle is stupid, and to take it even further, to punish both parties don't make any sense at all. People complain even tho they still get the marks. Lol this will make a smaller crowd even smaller
And guess what? You need to earn those marks by playing content. Regardless, like PvP, whether or not it is easy or hard. Not just from standing around. Also there wasn't even any comment made about those specific missions. Just that you need to play the game to earn those rewards, so your point wasn't even relevant to begin with. According to stats at SOE live a lot of players play PvP. So if you have insider data saying otherwise, please by all means present it. If not you don't have any facts to support your statement. Also in almost any MMO the PvP community is significantly smaller than the PvE community.
Enquirer, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I think your argument was based on a lot of quotes taken out of context, and none of them addresses the question I directed at you earlier, which how do you judge what is participation? How do you judge what is "completion"? The fact is you can't. In PVP you can only judge who wins and who loses. So long as you maintain that there is an objective truth to be found in judging other players, and I maintain that there is no objective judgement to be found, we're not going to meet halfway. I like you, and I want to keep friendly with you so I am not going to pursue debate with you any further. This does not mean I concede any of the points made, nor do I withdraw my opposition to this update.
By all means read the context of the quotes if you think that's the case. Completion in PvE is simply completing the objective, or instance. Hell, it's the definition of the word. In PvP you don't have to complete your objective, just participate. Compare the two and let me know which is easier. The least you should be doing in PvP is playing for the full duration of the match. You willingly queued into a zone meant for PvP. As long as you're in that zone you should be doing what is intended in that zone. Read the rules of conduct of the game you agree to every time you play the game. Specifically area disruption. EDIT: Wasn't the terms of service. It was the rules of conduct. Got the names of things all jumbled for a moment. Like I said, even if these changes go through PvP will still be more forgiving than PvE and simple participation in PvE isn't enough.
Have you played pve in dcuo? I have been in a lot of instances where players just stand around at the door and get gear in the duos. Even reported someone, and the gm told me to put him on ignore, leave, and re que. That's what we are talking about right? 2v2. Players stand around in 2's pve instance everyday all day and the players who is in those instances have to work twice as hard, because one pkayer just decide he not doing anything, and it happens in events too. Players who are complaining here just have to stand on a node and get marks.
You can't do that in PvP though so that point is moot. You can't deny its an annoyance either in PvE. Also lets face it, take a look at trade chat, versus chat and all the hackers that don't get banned. The GM's aren't who I would call stellar employees as a collective group. You're missing the point. We want to play the game. Also as the developers have made clear they want gear progression to mean something. PvP is the only game mode wherein you standing around doing nothing will guarantee you marks no matter who you are paired with.
Oh boy! Soooo much to say about this subject. 1) PVPers have the right to a good fight. Some people play PVP because they enjoy playing PVP ( ). Facing a slacker is terribly frustrating for them because they don't get to do any actual fighting, and well, the whole point of pvp is to fight against other people. Slacking is unfair for the PVP lovers, they are being forced to waste their time. So, preventing slacking is good for pvp, it is not fair that people get rewards for doing NOTHING. 2) PVPers SHOULDN'T have the right to use others as punching bags. PVPers usually say stuff like "I enjoy fights", "I like the challenge", "I want a good fight". However, totally destroying a poor guy who can barely scratch you (because he has low gear, lacks skill points or simply because he sucks at pvp) is not a challenge, it is not a good fight, it is not even a fight, it is just using others as punching bags. The desire for a good fight is respectable, the desire for a punching bag is NOT. So, if PVPers actually want good fights, then facing a weak opponent is NOT what PVPers want, it is not something they enjoy. So, an uneven match is something that both sides wouldn't like (unless some of them actually enjoy using weak players as punching bags but are afraid of saying it). However, BECAUSE there is gear progression the chances of an avid PVPer being matched against a weak player are high. So, a PVPer who wants a good fight is sadly matched against a weak player, so no, the PVPer is not going to get a good fight, and no, it is not the weak player's fault and in fact, he is not happy about it either. The fight starts, PVPer instantly kills the weak player a couple of times, it is clear the weak player has no chance to win. Is it really a bad thing that he gives up? The PVPer is not going to get a good fight anyway, the only thing he would get is a punching bag. If the weak player has no chance to win and is not enjoying the match, then why should he be obligated to be a punching bag until the match ends? But thanks to this new changes both players have to keep the fight going (because giving up would mean no marks and may eventually lead into "account sanctions") despite the fact that none of them is actually enjoying the match. So, instead of fighting because you're enjoying the fight, you're fighting out of fear of "account sanctions", it doesn't sounds fun to me. 3) Players should have the right to give up on uneven matches. It shouldn't happen, but alas, weak players are often placed in very uneven matches and then reduced to punching bags. If this happens, then they should have the right to choose whether to continue or just give up. After all, it is not his fault to be in that hopeless situation. In PVE if I decide to give up a solo I can do it without ANY punishment. In PVE multiplayer content I can start a vote to be excused, if it passes then I can leave without ANY punishment, if it doesn't passes then I can leave with a SMALL punishment. Taking a 10 min penalty in PVE is usually faster than sticking with a weak group, it could take hours to complete the instance with that group.So, in PVE penalty is actually faster than finishing the instance. What about PVP? 10 min penalty is usually SLOWER than finishing a match, meaning those same 10 minutes are actually harsher in PVP than on PVE. In PVE the penalties are not all that inconvenient, and the devs even gave us an option to not have ANY penalty at all. But in PVP we have no options and might even get "account sanctions". Doesn't sounds fair to me. And as others have said... a bazooka to kill a fly. 4) How much collateral damage is this going to cause? These new heuristic methods... How much do you trust them, devs? As I've said, sometimes people is completely destroyed even if they make their best effort. If this happens will they receive rewards? Will they receive "account penalties"? What about people with lag? What about the occasional AFK to answer the phone or the door or something? Power outs? Sure some of those things rarely happen, but others are quite common, combining them and considering the repercussions can be "account penalties" then it is a serious issue. Requirements should be very low in order to avoid these situations, but if they are all that low then people will find a way to throw the match without being detected. So it seems that this system will either hurt innocent people or be useless. I do hope I'm wrong and your heuristics methods are capable of discerning toxic behavior from weak skills and external incidents. Also, what about a whole team realizing it can't win, throwing the match and the opposing team not getting any rewards. This is not fair for the would be winning team. Why should they be punished by the actions of others? Makes no sense. On last SOE Live Spytle said something like "unlike players, we are not dicks to each others". So, devs know how much trolling happens on live servers and yet they decide to do something like this? I think devs need to re think this. A good rule of thumb.... Don't hurt your "good" players in order to punish the "bad" ones. 5) Is it really a problem ?? Some people say they encounter slackers all the time. The times I've decided to actually play pvp I've rarely see other people doing it. But that is only my personal experience. The question is.... How often does it happen? If this doesn't happen all that often then probably the solutions devs are implementing will cause more problem than the ones they're solving. If it is actually happening so often to make this a real issue that needs to be solved then devs needs to think about this... "How desirable is PVP if that many people prefer to stand around doing nothing instead of playing it ? " Also, if so many people is slacking, then how many people is going to be happy and how many people is going to be unhappy by these changes? This lead us to point 6.... 6) Treat the disease, not the symptom. Ok, there is a bunch of people queuing for pvp content and then standing around doing nothing. It sucks right? And apparently, it is a problem so big that it requires the dev's attention, so... What to do? Lets punish those evil stinking punks !!! Mhh... Well, that is clearly an option, the one devs are choosing. But, what about stopping for a moment and thinking... Why do people do it in the first place? What about removing the reason why people slack? So, why does people slack? Lets think about it... Is slacking fun? Nope, I can assure you it is not fun. If it is not for fun then why does people slack? Lets keep thinking.... What does slackers get when they slack? Marks of Valor (and Marks of Legend if they slack on legend maps). And what else? Well, pretty much that is all... Marks of Valor (MoV). So... what can you do with MoV ? You can buy PVP gear (which will make you stronger in PVP). And remember, PVP gear has certain styles attached, and those styles can get you feats. Basically, by slacking you get stronger at pvp and get styles and feats. Considering all those things I just said, and based on motivations, I think there are 2 types of slackers: A) " I don't like PVP " Slacker. This slacker wants to get styles (feats included) from PVP and doesn't like doing PVP activities. If he doesn't like PVP then why does he wants those styles? For PVE of course. I beleive THIS is the bottom of the matter: There are PVE benefits inside PVP. B) " I need to catch up " Slacker. This other slacker actually likes doing pvp, but he just started his pvp career and feels that in order to be able to compete he needs better pvp gear to catch up to the people who has been there longer than him and has stronger gear. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think that by far the main type of slacker is type A, the slacker who slacks in order to get PVE benefits So, the "disease" I mentioned in the title is PVE benefits inside PVP content. I think that is the root of the problem and I believe this is what devs should be solving instead of punishing players (specially with "account sanctions").
Then what should the devs do? I suggest this: Add "pvp" styles to the rare style vendor. This would make slackers go away. This would be easy to implement. This would not cause innocent payers to lose marks or to get "account sanctions". This would not scare people away from pvp. This would not upset the slackers (why would you solve the problem of a first group of people by annoying a second group when you can solve the problem of the first group without annoying the second group?). PVP enthusiasts would get what they want (to get rid of slackers) and slackers would get what they want (the attainable by losing pve benefits hidden in pvp content). Also, to make things fair add a new vendor that sells PVE styles in exchange of Marks of Valor. Pure PVPers deserve to add some extra flair to their toons too I don't like things to be "handed", but I like options. In this particular case options for PVE players to earn pvp styles and options for PVP players to earn pve styles. And again, if there really are so many slackers, then it is a clear indicative high demand for pvp styles to be accessible from the pve side. So this additions would be very welcomed by a lot of people. P.D. : Wow, I had to split my post because it has over 10 000 characters
I appreciate that the devs are doing something about this but I have a very hard time believing that the devs will program this correctly.
DCUO Census 246,656 Characters Server EU PC Faction All Power All Level: 30 PvE Combat Rating: PvP Combat Rating: Skill Points: DCUO Census 22,389 Characters Server EU PC Faction All Power All Level: 30 PvE Combat Rating: PvP Combat Rating: 81 Skill Points: %9.07 is a lot of players?! I dont know the minimum starting cr for PvP so 81 it is. Not even a full 10%. Yes PvP on EUPC server is booming.
Please do everyone a favor and actually watch the SOE Live PvP panel. In June of this year 22.8% of level 30 players played PvP across all servers. Which is 4-5 times what other MMO's report. Meaning on the high end, and estimated 5.7% of the player base of those games play PvP. On the low end is 4.56% of the population of those games play PvP. Also as a stat to compare that 22.8% to, 26.4% of level 30% played duos (as in PvE duos). You took information from the least populated server in the game and it still came in showing close to double the percentile value of some other games. You've successfully managed to do almost all the work for me.
So all characters vs 81 cr pvp characters on all servers is 1.14% *edit min pvp cr is now 97 so that 1.14% is being very generous actual pvp players on all servers with 97 cr is 22360
you keep defending this as if this will save PVP, sadly you are more concern with fighting and winning PVP, than wonder if everyoen really enjoys it as much as you do. You obviously love PVP, there's nothing wrong with that, but supporting a system that could cost a member his entire account, the one pays for a gives him the right to throw a match, and if he doesn't get reward then fine, after all he didn't do anything, but risking the account is extreme and an abuse of power by the devs, and why?, because a couple of PVPers feel so high and mighty that if you don't play at their level you are not good enough to even be in game as a whole. It's so easy to just use the same system that kicks you when you don't leave the spawn point to also kick you if you just don't move for a certain number of time, but telling me the best way to fix slackers is to take their account away it's just stupid and clearly shows a lack in effort from the devs to use a more reasonable solutions to the issue. BTW Throwing a match is not bad at all, there should be something in place that if both players, or groups, agree to do it then the system should recognize that and allow it, but as I said before, the few PVPers that screamed for something like this are too proud to accept that and move on. On the upside no more lvl 10 in PVP, because well there is no way they'll risk losing their account not one day after starting to play at all. Oh and don't even bother replying with any more reason why this is a good thing, or who this will make the game better, by now I see you don't care how other players are affected as long as you enjoy the game your way, well as I said before also, only you and a handful will be left enjoying PVP eventually.
After reading this thread, it seems apparent to me that people complaining about this change only want to complain because they dont understand what pulling your weight means. The devs have a great idea on their hands and it should definitely improve the PvP experience for the game.
This is a perfect example of why we don't use the census for this stuff. Aside from your math being way off (235,782 active characters with greater than cr81 PvP gear across all servers out of 1,795,407 active characters is not 1.14%) you do not need gear to compete in PvP this season due to the stat buff. So any level 30 could have done PvP and the census cannot tell us this. All the census can tell us is people who received the gear buff due to having gear prior to this season and those who have purchased gear since. Also by any chance do you happen to know what determines an active account? Because that skews data as well. Actually I don't care about winning at all. All I'd like to do is play the game. As stated earlier the PvP in this game is meant to be competitive. So it's going to appeal to a smaller crowd. As per more reasonable options, myself and several others have presented and shown support for other options and solutions to this problem. Why the developers picked this exact one, I don't know. There's also a number of things that can and will make me pull support from this, ranging from the developers not explaining how the program works, to it being buggy (which is incredibly obvious), to it being unfair, the greifing potential of the current system and a number of other things that make this one unfavorable compared to others. https://forums.station.sony.com/dcu...on-3-gear-cost-concern-and-suggestion.222622/ https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/proposal-influence-revamped.226966/ I'm fine with a number of different systems being put in, ranging from those two above options to one someone mentioned earlier about putting PvP styles in the rare style vendor, to completely separating PvP and PvE feats so one doesn't apply in the other's instance. However the developers insist on having PvP gear progression mean something in this game, which leads to them wanting you to actually play the content. All that being said, people are making a bigger deal out of this than they have to. PvE REQUIRES you to COMPLETE content. Here, all you're being asked to to is play the game and regardless of the outcome, you'll still get your reward.
