Work In Progress: What's Next for Arena PvP

90% of this looks promising but I'll have to wait and see how all of this goes.

It is extremely evident that you aren't reading my posts entirely or much of this thread for that matter, because again each mod has a counter, and nothing removes an abilities vulnerability, it merely changes the said vulnerability. You continue "spreading false information" with your false assumptions. You continue to claim that there is no counter to empowered channeling. You claim that removing HT adds depth to PvP. This is all false information, because I have explained how to counter many of the mods giving you and others in this thread trouble, and the definition of depth, begs to differ with your false assumption.

Again, the counter to empowered channeling is a dodge, a properly timed shield, a properly timed soda, block, etc. there are MANY other counters, the issue is you are still in this vanilla mindset. This game has evolved well beyond its vanilla state. It's something you are going to have to learn to accept. All MMOs evolve, and that is precisely what HT did for PvP.

I understand you and others may have trouble fighting these mods in PvP, and they may even force you guys to stay on your toes to be ready to defend against any of the strategies and/or tactics HT brings to the table in PvP. However, just because you and the others do May or May not fully understand how to combat HT strategies and tactics, and adapt to what PvP has become, does not mean HT should be removed from PvP. It means you all need to adapt and come up to the rest of the communities level, and adapt and evolve with DCUO itself.

It also seems you don't fully understand the "Straw Man Fallacy". Each point you have tried to make so far, I have proven wrong, and explained in detail why your points are wrong. I have even offered you assistance in game with the problems you may or may not have with current PvP knowledge and strategies, but you continue to ignore the advice and help I am offering you. It is you who is using a straw man argument because you are ignoring the facts that are being presented in this thread, and you are constantly contradicting yourself, misusing words and twisting them to how you wish they were defined regardless of what their true definitions are.

I recommend going back and re reading that link you posted about the straw man argument, and re reading much of this thread. The main reason I say this, you have contradicted yourself yet again, and it really shows you have not read much of this thread, or any of my posts. So it is really you going in circles, because you aren't fully comprehending what is being said. Yet another contradiction on your part. I look forward to your next response.

P.S.

Whether you like it or not, HT was created for both PvE and PvP. It was marketed as such. It was left in the arena after all other PvE trinkets were removed. There is a simple reason, it was designed for PvP. Therefore, it should not be removed from PvP. Also, if you think a Healer or Tank using explosive block or deadly block is unkillable, you are doing something wrong. My offer still stand in game to help you with any problems you might have with HT in PvP, just PM me in game. You know where to find me.

Just because you do not fully understand how to fight against HT mods and trinkets, does not mean they are being "exploited". It simply means you may or may not fully comprehend our combat system and the mechanics within the system itself to properly utilize them as counter measures.

I extend my offer to Risk, to you as well. Just PM me in game. This thread also has a lot of advice that I posted for how to counter many of these mods giving people issues. I highly recommend going back and re reading this thread if you choose not to PM me in game.

And what will beating you in a pvp match prove?

Many of the people that are complaining about TM, empowering channel and explosive block are not having trouble beating them. No, these players are good enough to stand on their own and not need a crutch,not hats why they want them gone for the good of pvp. They are just stupid mods that dumb down pvp by removing a layer of counters to the games combat mechanics. Pretty simple really, nothing complex to understand about equipping a mod and being able to mindlessly spam finishers or rolls.

Again Giggles, kudos on arguing such a bad case but sticking to it despite being proved wrong on all 48 pages

He's not asking u to fight him just to see who's the best he's trying to help u undertand how to counter this mods because its possible. So far is like u think u can only counter in just one way and thats not true. U can counter Channeling with a shield, knock back, blocking and stunning before they make the move so u can cancel them. Theres many ways to counter u just need to think out of the box. The devs knew what they were doing when they made them and so far they are working as intended.

Shouldn't put game changing PVP additions into DLC's period. Proven over and over now with Lightning Strikes (debuff and serum colas), Last Laugh (Maps, Game types, other headaches) and Home Turf (General Derp). Beyond that, any pvp addition that IS put into a DLC should be specifically designed for a controlled PVP game state in mind, and should be completely minor in scale.

Three Strikes and the idea should've been shot down by now.

Here we go now that you and I disagree on this matter somehow because of this you assume I dont comprehend. An yes it is being exploited once you see a mass amount of ppl switching to acro not because they like the movement exclusively for tm that speaks for itself. The same affect phase dodge had with super speed ppl started flocking to it in masses.

Regardless you keep saying counter this mod counter that mod how im curious. Because as far as I know some mods make you invulnerable meaning you can't be countered not you can't be beat but cant be COUNTERED. You like to use some slick word play to slither around the reality of the situation but im pretty good with words myself and the military helped a lot with attention to detail. So your ranting about how you beat ppl with these mods are meaningless we all have but I do know one thing. You didn't beat them by countering anything other then a block or blocker. To even pretend as if you literally counter those mods is insanity and misinformation not beneficial for this thread period. Your method in defeating ppl with these mods is nothing more then your own personal strategy countering is not included and I rest my case.

Question for the devs- the changes to arena could work but how will it affect the pvp phase? would these items work there and mix with the pve gear or would it be pve gear only?

Wow. I am hopeful DCUO, but this sounds icky. It's fun to have any kind of group you want in an arena, but giving a fully-roled team a boost is all kinds of lame. PVE instances...well endgame instances should need the fully-roled push and that should come from difficulty. I hope it works for the best though. I too miss the good ol arena days.

There you again, not reading or selectively reading my posts. I never asked for a match, I mean if you want one I'm happy to oblige you if you want a match, but I simply offered to teach you how to fight against and properly counter any mod give you trouble. Please start reading and stop selectively reading.

These block mods to not effect any player unless you they do the melee or range taps on a blocking opponent, OR they do the hold part of any combo on a blocking opponent. Therefore this isn't a "crutch" as you falsely accused these mods of being, it is a tool that punishes an opponent who is not paying attention and playing properly. The empowered channeling mod can only kill someone if that player sits there and does nothing to defend it. Empowered channeling can be countered with dodge, a properly time shield, a properly timed soda to ensure ones health is over 35%, a well timed stun. Stop "spreading false information", Risk. All of these mods haves proper way to counter or prevent them for being used, it's all about skill and combat know how.

You have not proven anything in this thread other than you have not read any of the important points of this thread. These mods aren't crutches. I'm sorry if people are getting bested by these mods because they can't pay attention to when to their opponents start blocking and throw a proper block breaker or other counter measure like dodge, a shield, etc.It sounds like some people need to brush up on their PvP, as it is no longer vanilla PvP. Please stop your straw man argument, and read this thread, it's evident you have missed a lot of important information.

P.S.

My offer still stands to help you in game. Just PM me your name and I will help teach you how to combat any mod giving you trouble in PvP, just PM me in game, you know where to find me.

If the devs came out with a mod that ignores block counters making hold melee attacks, 3 tap melee attacks and moves like outrage and whip thrash unable to counter by blocking. Would that be adding more depth and making pvp more skillful for dumbing down pvp? Answer that question

Thank you, I rest my case

I would assume that open worl pvp is anything goes

Let's look up the definition of a counter measure, shall we?

https://www.google.com/#q=define counter measure

So now that we have the proper definition of a counter measure, all of these mods have a proper counter. Again, it is just not the black and white vanilla counter trinity. DCUO has evolved way passed that vanilla way of playing, you have to really know this combat system and how everything works to do well. The fact that you and others like Risk feel these mods make people invulnerable and unable to be countered is "misinformation" just after reading the proper definition of a counter measure.

When you face a tumbler, there's a window where they are forced to pause before rolling again, the counter to keep them from tumbling again, is a well timed stun. A stun is one of the many counter measures that exist in this game. There are many other ways to counter a tumbler, but a well timed stun is the easiest way to do it, and we all have stuns, so everyone can counter a tumbler.

I also hope you realize that any movement mode can use tumbling master, it's not only made for acro. However, now that you know the proper definition of a counter measure, you too will hopefully see these mods all have counters. The key to countering these mods is to stop thinking only about the vanilla counter trinity, and utilize all counter measures available to you. I listed a good chunk of counter measures in this thread, feel free to go back and re read it.

Lets not go into hypothetical mods that we both know would never exist. There's just no point. I mean I could ask you a very similar silly question, but in the end, it doesn't matter because it would never exist.

The definition if depth found here

https://www.google.com/#q=define depth

Proves that HT adds depth to PvP, and removing it from PvP would dumb down PvP. You claim that many of these mods ignore combat mechanics and cannot be countered, when we have proven you wrong on each case as you attempt to argue it. There is no need for hypothetical questions, let's stick to what we have now. Thanks.

Home Turf changed PvP for the better. I know you never liked many of the changes because they slowly brought ice in line with all other power sets in PvP, but I'm pretty sure not much will change. PvP will be business as usual for the most part, with a few new additions.

Ht ignores counter attacks and overall dumbs down pvp = needs to be removed from pvp

I can go in circles all day giggles

Exactly, twisting others words and trying to support his straw man argument seems to be the method of attack now. Regardless,the majority has spoken and we want these mods out of pvp so we can have some real competitive pvp. It's so sad that Legends pvp is held in a higher regard to the competitive dcuo scene, a major part of that reason is because these cornball tactics such as HT and damage consumables are not allowed.

Devs, bring back the prestige and honer to arena pvp. You can't say the good old days and Home Turf in the same sentence.

I'm only wrong in your eyes, you are obviously extremely biased on this topic and your judgement is clouded. You are the one who has been proven wrong by myself, jeebie, frankzilla and others. You just refuse to listen to logic and reasoning on the topic.

The majority of the thread agrees with me and that's all that matters

I see you love your google lol. Look I understand the point your trying to get across but it seems your ignoring the literal truth. Which is your counter measure is just your own strategy to prevent ppl from using tm which would make them invulnerable. You can put emphasis on before and after all you want. The truth is there is nothing that can be done during, I shouldn't have to waste mana trying to prevent something a simple lunge is suppose to stop.

Then you have break out trinkets and counter immunities which make your stun attempts nothing more then a waste of mana. You can argue your strategy your opinion but my defense is truth you can't fight the truth. More and more it seems your trying your best to avoid the truth.

The best part about dcuo combat mechanics is that everything has a risk and a reward. Adding empowering channel removes this risk, your opponent rolling is not a risk, getting lunged and hard countered is a risk. Abusing tumble master for free rolls all day has no risk but all the reward. This blatantly screws up balance for pvp. Not to mention that other mods like explosive block just create an environment where both players are afraid to commit for fear of getting knocked off the node in a 1v1. Regen shielding is easily abused by ice tanks, now they have heals and shields.

Empowering channel and tumble master just blatantly ignore combat mechanics and DCUO's standard of risk and reward. The other mods that I described are just plain silly in a competitive environment.

Yes, I have these mods and I am guilty if using them. But, as a competitive Fighting game player, I'd prefer we strive for more competition and not lame tactics and gimmicks.