Putting on my player hat

i was really enjoying reading the post and agreeing with your sentiments up until the last paragraph, or two.

ya the attitudes should stop, but on both ends. as you said what is so hard about this technique, well not much. it is called jump canceling, so hit a power and jump, i mean cmon. the exact rotations around/after are the bit of skilled part.

keep in mind this game also does not tell you anywhere how to do it, or even that you can do it. heck, Brainiac just started showing us how to block/bb/interrupt

i give the same props to those who do it well and those who can and dont like to. because that is a different play style. not this already 'figured-out' cookie cutter stuff. but i give no love to those who cry about it and say they shouldn't have to do such things to play this game. well you dont have to. but due to imbalances in animation times Vs Dmg out (clipping in all forms included) you must if you want to be competitive.

thats is what this game is. very fast paced combat, with great RPG and social/grping. love it! Just because critics and website/media label this game "MMO" does not mean its a 'wow' or an 'eq', or any other game that just is not DCUO

I'll be honest. I'm Hard Light. Have been most of game. I worked extensively with Omaar in developing that power, testing, re-testing, combos on timers on my iPhone which helped turned HL into the powerful green monster we know it as today.
(well, maybe slightly less of a monster, but still.)

And I honestly don't CARE what changes DCUO makes to Hard Light specifically.
I care what changes they make to the game in general to make all powers equal as possible.
And (MOST Importantly) ensure that each power set has it's own personality.

That's right, personality:
DOTs, versus Burst, versus self-heals, versus team buffs, versus big animations, versus short smack you in the face attacks.
That's what adds flavor to each power set. And that is what will make people PROUD to be a ____-_____ or a ____-_____

Keep that mantra in mind DCOU and folks will continue be excited to log in everyday.
Because you're proud kick toss a sticky bomb on the Joker or put Circe in a DOT Circle, or hit Batman in the face with a HAMMER.

Where that fails. Is when you're playing a "less-than" powerset in your role and you know, unless you do everything perfect.
A group of pugs is gonna have "something to say" about your DMG/HEALS/Power.

It's an ugly part of the game but a true one. You can't change the way people act. You just can't. So let's level out.

-Zurr

I've enjoyed the discussion here and I feel that the conversation is getting rather heated, and somewhat alienating factions of players as the discussion continues. None of that is good for the game, regardless of which side of the discussion you are on. The goal should always be to make all players happy, yet provide challenging content and engaging game play.

I wanted to add my opinion to the piece. Discount or consider it if you wish.

- 1. Clipping is not hard - bottom line.
- 2. Figuring out what clips best, reading and deciphering how each power works, testing it's parameters, and putting together a loadout that takes full advantage of every factor to maximize your characters potential is much harder than clipping... but still not hard at all... it is just applying common sense.
- 3. Some players do not want to apply common sense... it's true... at least when it comes to loadouts/rotations and maxing out your characters potential in any role.
- 4 Some players do not care to be 'LEET', some do care, and others want to be, but find it easier to complain on forums than try.
- 5. JC is not the only clip. There are support powers, trinkets, consumables and some powers can be clipped with wpn attacks.
- 6. Clipping IS fun for many players... not fun for many others.
- 7. Clipping IS more difficult on a controller than some other devices.
- 8. The players who are your min/maxers will continue to be regardless of the system that is put out because that is the competitive nature in wish they play.
- 9. The players who are not min maxers will likely continue not to be for the same reasons... and still complain here on the forums.

There must be a happy medium here. The new feature sounds exciting. Honestly, it sounds like it will add a whole new dimension to the gameplay. I reminds me of the early days before the gear was rebalanced when we all have min/max might and precision sets, in addition to tiered sets, and figuring out what works best when. I still think that was one of the highlights of this game's life as every challenge/duo/alert/raid had something to drop of importance. That's exciting as I'm sure many will figure out when is it more beneficial to clip vs. weapon mastery... and I'm sure many of us will min/max the cr*p out of it and break it down to a science.

However, there must be a happy medium here to keep all sides happy. Most of this is on JC, the use of JC, the timing of JC, etc. Also, the biggest 'gotcha' point those against JC make seems to be with the keyboard, which mostly effects the PC side, ad macros which solely effect the PC side.

Jump cancelling is an important skill to learn how to do... when stuck in an animation, how many of us wiped because you were stuck in a fireburst animation in Sub or Inner's last boss? (Going way back, I know) It is something that should be in the game not just for damage role but for all roles to evade attacks, not just maintain continued damage.

The real issue is TIMING.

Here's my proposal... How fast can a console player continually JC? Wouldn't that be a fair standard to implement as a cooldown timer? Sure, that will still anger many PC players, who admittedly can cancel much faster than those on a joystick... but then wouldn't that level the playing field? That is the goal right?

I'm assuming weapon mastery is to level the playing field with the clippers as now you have speed (clipping), or timing (wpn mstry) to perform at your highest level. So why not the cooldown on JC be as fast as console player can continually execute it? This would balance out the PS and PC side.

(Just please don't tell me the cooldown will be .5 seconds as I know I'm far faster than that on a control pad)

I hate fighting hard light because of that. The claw never registers as a lunge (and if it just doesn't, then it just should), and the interrupt in their little "leet conbozors" doesn't lost long enough to effectively utilize. Couple that with the fact that every move instigates a different stun, and you've got the makings of an untouchable PvPer.

[quote="The real issue is TIMING.

Here's my proposal... How fast can a console player continually JC? Wouldn't that be a fair standard to implement as a cooldown timer? Sure, that will still anger many PC players, who admittedly can cancel much faster than those on a joystick... but then wouldn't that level the playing field? That is the goal right?

I'm assuming weapon mastery is to level the playing field with the clippers as now you have speed (clipping), or timing (wpn mstry) to perform at your highest level. So why not the cooldown on JC be as fast as console player can continually execute it? This would balance out the PS and PC side.

(Just please don't tell me the cooldown will be .5 seconds as I know I'm far faster than that on a control pad)[/quote]

I am a casual player and having played this game for over two years on PC and PS, I can match up the keyboard speed with a controller easily (not consistently but very closely). I use a controller on both PS & PC. Skill is not simply in matching rotations and timing, in addition, it involves positioning, power management, team-work and coordination all of which go hand in hand.

Spytle,

I can't speak for everyone else, but I think a lot of the anger and bitterness stemming from the proposed changes, come from the fact that part of the community (those of us that do enjoy min/max'ing) are beginning to feel marginalized. I know it's just a game, but I try to personally excel at everything I do. Hobbies, work, sports, etc... I don't participate in anything to be second best. It just feels like you're punishing us for playing the way we do.

Wouldn't the removal of the scoreboard alleviate a lot of the issues? You wouldn't see all those "That guys cheats, he beat me on the SB" threads that we've all seen time and time again. There wouldn't be as many kicks from PUGS based on simple stats. Things would simplify down to "we beat the content" vs. "you're not as good as me, I'm l33t * Vote to kick player xyz*".

In addition to the lore, the draw of DCUO for many is the twitch based combat. The fact that on PS3/4, if you have the dexterity and persistence you can see your hardwork pay off. Seeing hours spent in front of the practice dummies honing my DPS rotations pay off in raids? The best feeling ever. Even as fire, I was keeping up with HL/Cel but I had to bust my *** to do it. And being able to finish Nexus and Dox while solo tanking as fire was incredibly rewarding, especially since the bulk of the community only wanted ice tanks. But like many, I worked hard to memorize each tell and timing when to come out of block to throw a power and re-establish aggro, etc...

I feel like your posts are an attack on us "try-hards". What's so wrong with having fun excelling at your role? I don't understand why people who don't want to put in the time to practice, or make the choice NOT to clip/JC should be complaining when they're not topping any scoreboards. They make that choice knowing it's the case, and no one is twisting their arm to do it. You can be very competitive without it, but it's gonna take some effort. Besides, why is it even an issue if they supposedly don't care about DPS out?

Just remove the scoreboard. It's a simple fix without pissing off each group of gamers.

At the end of the day, you guys should be happy to see people so enraged. These are people that are passionate about a game you guys made and are frustrated with how things are changing. Be glad that we care enough to speak up.

So beautiful. So true. I wish every player had attitude similar to yours. The best part ? When the changes come you prob gonna do it again. Because thats, in my eyes, why a good player do, when a change come. He adapt.

I play on ps3 and haven't talked to a single person in game that likes the idea of changing the jump cancel mechanic. It might be a different story on PC, but on PS HL is NOT a power everyone can be good with. That said, if it is really easy and takes less skill, my question would be......So? No power in this game is really complicated to begin with and half the people are just throwing dual wields anyway. HL is as close as it gets (haven't tried rage yet) and the jump cancel is a big part of the fun. If someone doesn't enjoy it, they can always play a different power and do well.

You raise a good point. If this restriction is going to hamper any escape tactics especially for tanks. All hell is going to break loose on the boards and i'm going to be leading it ! Think well on this Mr. Player in a Hat !

Spytle already noted that you'll still be able to jump cancel as an escape tactic, it'll just play out a "cancel" or "dovetail" animation before you can go into your next move

Not to focus directly on HL but wouldn't it be possible that the upcoming changes to combat could be a blessing in disguise?

As it stands now, HL can put out great damage but the majority of the hl combos revolve around either fan or whip thrash, utilizing the extremely fast pace HL can clip at.

If HL is slowed down and the lack of a jump cancel/phantom triangle leads to a dramatic drop in damage, isn't it possible that it'll bring attention to the other less-desirable powers in the power tree and they'll be adjusted accordingly?

Being honest, as a HL player my first thoughts when hearing the upcoming changes was "wow, HL is going to take a huge hit" but after giving it some optimistic thought, maybe this'll open up hl from "must spam these 3 powers as fast as possible" (which I'm fairly good at) to "now I have a chance to use different powers and constructs because they all are viable now"

I pretty much only do Legends because of this - doesn't fix all of the problems but at least everyone is on a relatively even playing field. Or at least more even than it is when you consider personal loadouts and people in different stat gear.

What truly takes skill is to take an under powered dps ability and have it keep up with celestial,rage,etc. Then it goes beyond just hitting powers in a sequence its takes weeks of practice and trial and error. Then nothing beats that feeling when you get out of the odyssey feat and someone says "is that top dps earth? how?" That's skill.

Do that with a PS4 controller, though.

Or worse, do it with a PS3 one (ew). Maybe there's a source of some of the disconnect. Pulling off some of this stuff with a gamepad is significantly more difficult than bounded keys.

You should read the OP again. I mention just that. Some people seem to be missing some of the specifics of my feelings on the subject.

yeah with a controller i doubt its getn hit faster than 0.2 or 0.3 so they should be fine

Spytle do you remember kaatrinoReturns?

I do like the idea of making the game more skill based, but I hate taking jump clipping out. The top powers right now majority use jump clipping but gadgets does not need to jump clip to be top dps. HL still is an annoying power to heal for and now the HL rotations are going tochange and drop it off of top powers. Personally I love the HL combos with jump clipping, it's fun to me. I mean I see how it's over powered for keyboard but I still only say take jump clipping out in pvp only. You may be taking away some of the best powers in the game in pve and leaving one of the most power hungry powers ever alone. The only way I see taking jump clipping completely out would be to nerf gadgets.

Hey radium why did you beat me up yesterday lol?

That would definitely help with scub DPS who aren't concerned with anything but damaging... (solo healer gets locked up in Wave & DPS that barely outdamage trolls still won't help)

At the same time, the scoreboard is the easiest indicator to yourself of how effective you were. If you run with the same people a lot you can really quickly tell if the changes you made to your loadout or rotation worked well.

EDIT: Also, scoreboards are an invaluable tool for league recruitment AND/OR figuring out who is causing a fail group... although it's rarely just one person.

I guess I'm going to jump on the side of keeping the board & continuing to teach/kick overt noobs.