Tanking in Elite Content

You can Tank toe to toe in older content/regular for the most part and/or you have decent shields from yourself and Support but yeah in just about anything new and Elite it seems you have to keep moving to tank. The one thing kiting does do that I appreciate is it lessens your chances of getting boxxed in which I really hate in some raids.

just went rage for my first time. getting it handed to me at the minute. how do I make the heals when in rage stronger?

I honestly didn’t even see this post when I was replying. Every role has to do things differently in regular vs elite. If you’re constantly running elites, you’ll start sleeping thru regular. It will feel like it has the same difficulty as event. You can do pretty much whatever you want in reg as a troll. You can run 5 supers and a group heal as a healer if you know what you’re doing. Dps, not really worth mentioning but can just go ham. Tanking, there isn’t a single thing in regular that is going to affect you. Like face tank all day every day. Doesn’t matter. Run a shield maybe. Don’t really have to but whatever. This is why I keep saying we need something between regular and elite. There is a giant step between the 2. A lot of players breeze thru regular so they assume that it’s time for elite. They get slapped and make a “nerf this mechanic” post. The new way of multi levels of elite is nice and all but that’s to make things harder and harder. They need to make another level or 2 of regular so players can learn what is going to happen in elite.

As far as do roles need to act differently, god ya. Trolls become very important. Important enough that if they go out early, you’re best off wiping. Without their buffs and debuffs, your dps will be far less effective. Some instances, without their stuns you will fail. If they aren’t grabbing downed players, your burn drops off. Plus like Deity mentioned l, possibly in the other thread, the troll can be the one separating a certain add. Trolls get no love in regular but all the love in elite. Let alone they’re usually the ones that have to deal with lunges and cogs.

Healers, yeah they’re going to be put to work. There isn’t a regular instance out there that would ever require 2 heals or an EoG heal and a full heal. Once in elite, they will be working non stop. The tank will be getting very hurt constantly so even if they can survive without you, they’ll want you to heal your buns off so they can kite less and/ or deal with mechanics with less worry. A speed run type of group will want at least 2 EoGs so if you’re solo healing, you need to be able to work with 4 slots instead of 6. Do able, but much tougher than just running a full heal build. 2 healers running one each at a minimum makes things a lot easier but takes away some burn. It depends on the group how that is going to go but if you’re already running 2 tanks, 2 healers means you’ve lost 2 burners.

Even dps have a much different experience in elite if they’re good. There are phases where you can’t burn at all without killing the group. Then there are times that you need to do so much more damage than normal to topple a mechanic. Aka burn checks. Dme was a big burn check setup. They also need to know when to AoE burn, when to concentrate on one enemy and keep good splash damage, or just straight st while doing absolutely no splash damage. Things like tsde 1st boss, any add you kill is going to spawn again. Maybe you take out a general and a sniper replaces him. That’s bad. So straight st on Lois with no splash is ideal in a solo tank setup. Maybe you’ve got 2 tanks so then whatever hits best is the play. 2nd boss, you better pray that tank is dealing with Cyborg while all the dps are focus firing on him. The list goes on and on. Every single role/ player is important in elite. You can carry maybe 2 players max but it’s not a full carry. Like they still need to know what to do and pull some weight. Obviously we’ve all 4 manned/ seen 4 man raids and that’s because 1 of each role knew exactly what to do. It’s honestly easier that way sometimes.

There’s lots of ways to rage tank. I think the easiest way, personal preference here, was severe punishment clipped with remorseless recovery. You can’t be hurt and if you are, you’ll heal back. At the 9 o’clock cool down of severe, pop redirected rage shield. All your rage crash should be mitigated to near nothing thanks to the shield and remorse. Let that expire and can either do Hard light for a min and go right back into severe/remorseless or if redirected lasted long enough, skip hl and go right back to severe/ remorseless. Without mercy to juggle and heal and rage bringer for pulls and heals.

Other option and far more common, severe and hit e chain at the 9 o clock cooldown spot. Then redirected then hls and back to severe. You’ll want to carry a breakout trinket cuz this setup is death if you kiss your e chain timing/ get knocked out of it. Ire can work instead but meh, no one really likes ire. And ground slam and pull stay the same. Rage bringer is also a heal so can spam that if you’re in trouble. And remember, the more adds the better with rage. It’s a timing is everything powerset tho “my” load out is pretty idiot proof. It needed to be for me tanking lol.

As far as making the heals stronger, that’s going to come down to artifacts and sp. if you’ve got a ton of sp, put some into resto and even crits if you’re really flush with sp. Circes mask works pretty dang well too if running hls and redirected but you’ll absolutely want manacles and mystic still. If you’ve got a 200 EoG, bloom or blossom whatever iconic works wonders. Rage isn’t too much about getting healed as much as it is about getting what’s taken away from you back. If that makes sense. Like, you’re going to take damage but you should get almost all of it back a few seconds later. It’s basically like a healers worst nightmare lol. You heal and heal rage tanks and they’re like thanks but I don’t need the heals. Unless you time things wrong, then you just die.

Edit: almost forgot, always have your hit counter above 25 hits. Flurry one handed is rages best friend. Must have hit counter up or you’ll be pretty squishy with any load out tho you’ll be ok in regular content. Rage is complicated but awesome once you’re used to it. Practice on the open world bounties, you will get to the point where you won’t even need to pop a cola.

That’s true I forgot about celestial but that supercharge makes the enemies go after the healer. Healers shields aren’t as strong as tanks in this case Mass Density. This sounds like fun though, healer pops supercharge shield, after it wears off then the tank pops Mass Density. I don’t remember sorcery having a 8 man shield. I believe they have the giant bat form, summon powerful pets supercharge, the other supercharge transforms enemy or enemies into an animal. I don’t know anything about water, as for electric I do recall they have a shield supercharge.

Hmmm if we’re talking shields here from supercharges, I assume trollers would also pop a supercharge shield. Often times I would see quantum throwing a group supercharge shield. Three support roles throwing supercharge shields sounds like overkill but maybe it’s needed like that lol not to mention I’m only thinking about 1-1-1 o.o

yeah considering I’m going to pug elite lmfao i have to change many things it’s fine, once I get enough experience pugging elite then I can move on to league or lfg elite runs.

I get that Wallachia, but it just doesn’t represent a tank either if you have to kite. A tank isn’t supposed to do damage sure but a tank is supposed to also take the damage hence the name tank but when you have to resort to kitting in my eyes that’s running away and if you have to run away then you’re a squishy tank. And I’m not even talking about skull attacks. I’m sure with more experience I’ll find some way around it or learn which elite run is easier to not have to kite.

You don’t the only way is to increase your damage done. Rage healing mechanics are leeching heals. At this moment there is no artifact, Allie’s or anything for that matter that will increase rage healing. I brought this up in one of my threads some time ago. The only responses I got especially from the all mighty Obsidianchill is that rage is programmed for Severe Punishment which makes the other powers that rage has obsolete. But rage does have something unique Dilusteel artifact. The description of it is the same as rage mechanic thus when using it in conjunction makes it seem like your doubling your tank mechanic. As of now I only want to do elite content with rage and atomic, though that’s going to take some time to rank up my tank arts on both toons.

I mostly wanted to stay out of this thread, but you do have a point when it comes to "tank" and "avoiding". If the damage is so strong that requires even the tank to run away, there might be an issue with damage numbers from enemies. And I'm not just talking about skull attacks that should be avoided or blocked. (Depending on the mechanic.)

There are other games that do have avoiding tanking as the mechanic, but they usually are much weaker and faster in builds of the character. In DCUO, we have just a neck mod that allows us to be in block or out of block and all other tank elements are pretty much the same across the board. (Though, they used to be more unique to each other before stats revamp.)

I don't think this is the limitation of the content, but the limitation of the standardization of the tanks. I feel the development of the new content wants to change how difficulty works with player interaction. Keeping us more active, but after stats revamp, they didn't really make a change to the roles to give variety. If anything, it made them way more simple and that limits the content.

I'm not sure if there is a fix to this other than changing how tanking works or just majorly adjusting Elite content numbers. Which lowers the skills needed for success if you are a tank. (IE, kind of godmode, which isn't fun.)

Curious, why did you wanted to stay out of this thread? There’s tons of helpful information on here lol as far as skills and godmode, I don’t believe there is much skills to running away “kiting” it could also mean I’m overthinking hahaha the thing is I don’t see how in elite, tanks definition doesn’t represent it and we’ve had elite raids for many years now and it seems it became the norm to kite. Whether it’s intended for tanks to do that or not is something I would like to know from a dev standpoint. If the devs agree that in elite you have to kite regardless of how durable and strong you are then I’ll concede but if not then there has to be some numbers wrong. I mean, I’m EEG elite content they did some changes which the notes states, I however need it explained more I also know that EEG elite is different from End Game Elite.

I'm not a primary tank. I play a controller class that mostly DPSes. (Our league has troll primary that get that slot.) I have a healer villain that I mostly keep up to date and a tank, that gets 3rd dibs on any resources left over. So I wanted to stay out of it, as I feel that I am not the best point of knowledge to talk on the subject. I will try answering your questions.


Well, in terms of tanking, we have 3 types of bosses and each don't usually overlap with each other, but can.
The big monster. - This was the original bosses we had. They didn't have counter mechanics and basically were designed more like traditional MMO bosses that stay on tanks. (For the most part.)
The humanoid. - Counter mechanics are your friend. They can be countered and keeps you alive. Save the big skull attack.
The humanoid big monster. - This one is annoying. These are the gods that can't be countered, but can counter you. They can do a ton of damage.

Kite and avoiding is considered more skill based because, especially if you are the single tank, have to juggle the adds in the encounter as well as keep the boss' aggro all the while avoiding being hit, otherwise you get downed quickly. (May not be a one shot, but could be 2-3 shot.) So if they adjusted the numbers on damage from enemies, it would be god mode. Especially with all the really amazing artifacts tanks have. *coughManaclescough* Which in non elite content, they are pretty dang close to being invincible. They are almost always the last one to die, unless they are undergeared with bad artifacts. (I know this from experience. My alt account I am shelving has good gear and artifacts are 160 now and she overperforms my tank with similar build but no good artifacts and gear.)

As for EEG Elite, it hasn't really changed, YET. Right now, it's just clamped 10 above enemy CR, includes the additional stats that elite content gets, and has full piercing. Which accounts for very little in terms of bonus stats. The difference between clamped and unclamped Elite is really player stats. A player can start to outgear a piece of content by just having a few extra SP a full vendor gear from previous episode. Where clamped elite is no real outgearing. Since piercing works on your clamped stats. So you are stuck, which makes it much harder than original launched unclamped version.

You can face tank plenty depending on your sp and artifact setup and build in general. Like a fire tank with near 700sp and 200 mystic/manacles/Everyman paired with a great healer or 2 will be face tanking 95% of the time. The kiting part comes down to being add overwhelmed or needing to run for a min while the healer gets out of a cc like handcuffs. Like I’m sure everyone remembers the stu elite alert with those 4 pain in the butt bosses. That was kiting because of being overwhelmed not because you realllllly had to. I kites like crazy with ice, my fire tank buddy mostly face tanked till the one mechanic that you just couldn’t. But then the tables turned in the new elite duo where I don’t move an inch in the Lex fight and he’s jumping around constantly. He’s closer to 650sp and I’m a bit over 550 so he’s got the edge clearly but we’re both full built tanks as far as augs and artis and whatnot are concerned.

Basically, aside from sm, when we talk about kiting it doesn’t mean that you’ll never face tank again. It just means that you as a tank will have to actually adapt and move around on occasion vs planting your feet and hammering away. Just don’t think that all you need to do is run laps in a room haha. Well, till sm cuz then yeah you’re just going to be running laps around a room unfortunately.

When you put it like that I can see now where it’s skill based. I’ll keep that in mind. The thing with counter mechanics is that it doesn’t always work. Could be I’m seeing counter mechanics different compared to pvp vs pve. Take for instance Zeus in FGS, you have to lunge when it states it or suffer his super attack. I lunge and lunge and still nothing. Most of the time the rest of the group isn’t even doing that. How many players would it take to successfully stop that mechanic from lunging? Is the tank the only one able to lunge to stop the attack? When I run that instance I try and lunge as much as possible to no avail. I see sometimes other players try and lunge and still he does his super attack. When I try to counter an enemy sometimes they are immune or my attack isn’t registering for some reason. Could it be the dovetail? I know we always had the issue when it came to countering that when you do counter say like a lunge or block breaker it doesn’t work at times.

Zeus goes into the Big Humanoid Monster and you can't counter him. His big charge skull attack is a group effort. One person can't be the only one lunging. So it really doesn't count as "counter mechanics".

Bosses like Lex Luthor/Batman from Nexus of Reality would be an example of a boss that you need to counter to stay alive. (Pre nerf.) This was an example of a boss that if you gave him immunity, you'd better pray that you can survive until he is no longer immune. Which is why most tanks hated rage and weapon melee players, because Lex would block and get that immunity and the tank was like "welp, this is my life now." Now a days, it's not a problem, as most if not all Current End Game raid bosses can't be melee'd. So most people play with a mid range melee build or just straight range.

Everyone is supposed to lunge him. Works in regular since we stay grouped up. In elite we’re spread out but there should be 2 players, one tank but can be 2, standing in the middle. They both have to lunge several times. Think it’s 6 total? Been a min since I ran it. Does not have to be a tank tho. Obviously the tank should be one of the lungers. As far as counters go, some bosses don’t care. Zues being the primary one to not give a pooh what you’re doing. You’re never going to knock him down or whatever. Best we get is making him a little dizzy if we lunge enough. Other times, like anti monitor and grodd and even the devil guy in coue, we can keep them on their butts almost the entire fight if we’re doing it well. I think a lot of it comes down to lag/ latency. Other times, it’s a slow lunge on skull needed but we assume skull means lunge instantly. And maybe both work but only one is a true counter. I don’t know, I rank with my eyes closed or I get headaches lol

For someone that doesn’t want to get into tank discussions, you have an awful lot of good knowledge. Maybe don’t shy away from tank convos anymore?? The games lost a lot of the great ones and those of us trying to step up and fill the void like all the info possible.

I love when people start talking about SP specialy when they dont know what they talking about ! Add max SP in health max dominance and cheack how much more stats you got and then go to those ads and cheack how much health you loose from 1 hit single add thats yours 700 SP worth . 10 years farming SP gives you advantage equal 1 hit from 1 add in elite raid sad isnt it ? When you got like 10 ads on you its hard to even notice difference 100 sp or 700 sp .
Artifacts doing all work there + gear ofc .

I have yet to tank any Elite content save The Threat Below, which is one of the few Elite clamped content that is super easy to handle.

Which why the hesitancy on me trying to give good advice on Elite tanking. My leaguemate would be a better choice to talk to about this, as he's tanked quite a number of CEG Elite as well as will be usually the tank in EEG Elite. I at least understand the mechanics, but I don't have the experience necessary to really judge Elite.

Yeah, it definitely comes down to everything else more than sp but with tanking, more is always better. 1 extra hit in elite can actually make all the difference. My health is at like 250k I think? I have 100sp in it. I know it’s under 300. His fire toon is either close to or already over 600k. They get that buff but having that plus 100 dom, 100 resto, and 100 power, he’s set. He has more in each but that 10% is all that really matters. After that, yeah pretty useless. I’m probably one of the biggest “sp doesn’t matter” people but I say that as after having like 400ish. Having a tank that’s barely able to max primary stat and nothing else in elites… they better have 200 artis and maxed everything else or it’s probably going to be another strugglebus ride. Obviously there are outliers to this and they do great with low sp and low artis but those types are few and far between. Plus that may mean that while they’re getting all the credit for being godlike, there were incredible healers and troll and dps in that run. The tank could be the carry. It’s possible since a great healer and troll can carry the raid for awhile without a tank.

I don’t like it, I don’t hate it. But I do wish there wasn’t such an emphasis on kiting. Mix it up a bit. It got boring just pulling and face tanking, and I welcomed kiting with open arms. But it got old quick

I agree, both can get old quick, variety is important otherwise it all inevitably gets stale

I guess it depends on how well people are playing their role in reg. I mean, if the auto-run feature also guided you in the correct direction down corridors, through doorways, etc, I'm pretty sure reg is able to be done blindfolded. But for people who are trying to play as well as they can, outside of additional mechanics in elite that aren't present in reg, healing and trolling are mostly the same. As far as trolling, the only thing I do differently between reg and elite that isn't purely attributed to laziness is pay attention to LoS for my PoT. A lot of times in elite, objects are used for strategic positioning or are crucial for mechanics (ex. pillars in TSDe Superman fight). So I have to pay attention to how I as well as the others in the group (especially healers) are positioning themselves in regards to those objects so I can maintain LoS. There are lots of other things I do differently but those are all things that still technically apply and that I technically SHOULD do in reg but they're not necessary sooooo...eh. I don't heal but I imagine it's mostly the same. Like, "yeah, I think some of the group is outside my healing range so I SHOULD move closer, but it's reg soooo....eh." lol

As I stated in an earlier post, atomic can face tank better than other powers. It's kind of built specifically for face tanking since you can move or combo but not both at the same time (though you can combo and shift over a little bit). Also, it's hard enough to consistently catch counters when having to combo, it's next to impossible if you're trying to constantly move and combo. As far as positioning, the adds are much more of a factor than the boss 95% of the time. A boss is gonna do what a boss is gonna do regardless off whether he' in front, behind, left right, up down whatever. But the adds you gotta ALWAYS keep in front of you and keep within range of thermochemical explosion. Thermo chem constantly spreads and pushes them away though, and that's a big part of the skill of atomic juggling.

Another tip for atomic, when you're new and getting used to it or even when experienced and just getting used to particular content, save Mass Density for your own personal "OH S***" moments. Don't worry about shielding the group until you're super comfortable and familiar both with atomic tanking and the content. After all, when you're a tank, keeping yourself alive IS keeping the group alive. Plus, most of the time where it's tactically smart to use a group shied for the group, good healers and trolls who know the content (mechs, phases, etc) are going to play the same way they play with Rage, Ice, Earth and Fire tanks and pop their shields anyway. So yeah, be selfish with your MD.

Only shield lunges are quick enough to execute that mechanic by yourself and even then it's iffy (lag, etc). Others can't really help because clipped lunges won't count and you don't want people lunging the full distance in to the middle just to get slaughtered by Zeus or one shotted by rotating lightning trying to return to their exterior position. Unless we were running with a tank using shield and experienced in successfully doing that mech, we always just blocked it out and popped a soda or got healed up. When tanking, I tank with brawling so I just made sure to have my soda ready and blocked it.