Skill points are a pain!

Okay, first off, this statement?

Is completely, wildly inaccurate.

And since I'm a homework guy these days, here - I did my homework.



Test Subject A: Galea Kimone (Precision Build Mental) 3x 30 second Parse, single target, with Doom Spin.

• Series #1 with 200 Arts and no allocated SP in Precision or Might had three parses - 38794, 41875, and 41488 per second, respectively. Average 40719/s.
  
• Series #2 with 200 Arts, 285 SP in Precision and 66 in Might also had three parses - 54117, 50162, and 53228 per second, respectively. Average 52502/s

I'm using Doom Spin for my producer instead of the MegaSmash combo or Dual Wield - > Flurry because although it does less, it's very consistent - your buddy's test had combo variations of up to 19 hits in the parses.

Mine has a variance of *seven*. Each parse is between 97 and 104 total hits. Also...

There is LITERALLY a 10,000+ difference in her Precision when I have the SP allocated.
There is LITERALLY a 12,000/s difference in her damage when I have the SP allocated.

Test Subject B: Galena Kimone (Might Build Earth) 3x 30 Second Parse, single target, Jackhammer Combo.

• Series #3 with 120 Arts and no allocated SP in Precision or Might had three parses - 31819, 35653, and 31310 per second, respectively. Average 32927/s.
  
• Series #4 with 120 Arts, 285 SP in Might and 66 in Precision also had three parses - 37564, 42469, and 42127 per second, respectively. Average 40720/s.
  
• Series #5 with NO ARTS, 285 SP in Might and 66 in Precision also had three parses - 34492, 36028, and 38769 per second, respectively. Average 36429/s.

Her combos look more like your buddy's test series, mostly because she literally runs out of Power midway through the combo with no Might allocated. Also, her output sucks, because I don't have 200 Arts on her, her Augments are unfinished, and I started playing Earth on a whim about three months ago because I had a 290 skip and 3.2K Replay Badges so I could.

And you can still tell the difference, even through all that jank. Also: The last test is SP alone and had 4,000/s more than a parse with level 120 Artifacts.

And I'm using THE TWO REQUIRED PRODUCTION ARTIFACTS FOR A SERIOUS DPS in pretty much every test.

The two takeaways are this -

1. Artifacts below the 160-200 line simply do not hit the same way,
2. Skill Points Work Y'all.

Final observation:

It seems disingenuous to imply that SP are worthless AND ask for literally HUNDREDS of them in the same breath. As demonstrated, there's a definite difference.

In the face of that observation, it seems like you're asking for 300-400 purchasable SP because you know "that's the minimum requirement to have a functional character".

Which is (directly) you asking for (another) pay-to-win consideration.

You know the difference in average is not that large. No one said sp was not working what so ever what I said was arts are better than sp and were made less of a need. if you want more of an accurate test take your gear off. But that doesn't stop me from pushing to get buyable sp. I have over 300 sp .

Thank you!!!

My only observation is...

When you wrote "There is Literally...", did you leave out the word "no" or "without", cause it reads the same but with a difference in totals or numbers.

Still waiting for how you came to your conclusion.

In industry terms we call that "grasping at straws".

For the Earth character using crappy artifacts, it's not that large, but it's still significant - and she still beat "120 Arts Alone" with "440 SP Alone".

On Galea, that difference is almost 12,000/s. On a parse that caps at 52,000.

That's over 20% yo.

20% is the difference between 80 and 100 dollars.

20% is the difference between 5'1" and 6'4".

Based on that observation alone, plus the assertion that "Some character development process should remain in-game alone", I don't think SP should ever be more buyable than it already is. It seems like you already know this though, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to buy more of it at 300 SP, which is slightly after the range where old styles and time capsules would drop you off...

And to be blunt, I consider my point made - and it looks like I'm not alone in that assessment.

Simply put, you're not going to be running current content with 100 CR worth of gear: you're also not gonna put 200 Arts on a CR 90 character. And really, I don't see it changing that number in a positive manner for the artifacts; removing everything but the weapon and the utility belt still leaves her with 18,000+ Precision @ CR 39. Not going to bother with the video this time, but it slides the difference close to 25%.

As you are in a testing mindset right now. I'd be interested to see the difference between either toon with the 100 SP in the skill of choice (crits and whatever WM/movement also needed depending on build)....and then with the 285 in the same Skill tree. The difference between the 2 being (at this time) about 185 SP...or roughly what most of the requests of 'sell me 200 SP' have been.

I would test it myself...but you have done a nice job so far....figured I'd give you the option of finishing it up...plus I'm kind of bad this kind of testing and vary wildly between parses myself.

I'd guess that the difference between 0 sp in the skill tree and 100 is greater than the difference between 100 and 285 even though the actual SP difference is almost double.....this has always been my point. Yes....you need some SP, enough to get your crits/WM+100 where needed. The rest is nice, but gravy. To get to that +100 number it's less than 200SP (for a DPS), around 185 I believe...less if you drop the WM and go straight power build.

Just a suggestion....not trying to make more work for you. Just think that the test would shed better light on whats being asked for...as the 'sell me 200-300 SP' seems to be the average pitch.

Uhm, later tonight probably: changing a tire right now.

Let us buy up to 400 sp for new and returning players!

sp should be buyable up to 400 with such a low number you'd still have a long way to go.

Again.

I won't ever deny that my SP are below what some might expect for the amount of time I've played the game. And such a system might indeed benefit me.

But taking all that into consideration, the fact that I'm going with a



stance should be a pretty telling indication about how I feel about the idea in general. Plus my use of this meme (twice no less) should tell a person about how much seriousness I think the proposal put forward deserves at this point.

Either way I'm pushing for 400 sp to be buyable.

And i'm pushing for your sense of entitlement to not be indulged in order to preserve whatever integrity this game has left.

at least he's stopped trying to claim that SP do nothing and that's why they should be buyable, which is what he was doing before someone poked a giant hole through his "evidence".

Still gotta go with a "no" though.

People who want feats......

And corny

No. The fact that people can already buy level 200 Artifacts is bad enough - besides, with all the time you spent arguing that SP is worthless, I would say you don't need any, according to you.

Haha like I said.....corny

(kidding)

Seriously though, this request -

ESPECIALLY in the context of this thread - is really a pretty solid one.

So I decided to test Galea (since the big question mark regarding the actual value of Skill Points always seems to involve the 200 Artifact level commentary) - I've run a comparison test with "Assigned Criticals, Weapons Combos, Iconic and Movement Mode Abilities, Plus 100 SP" and "Full Course Assigned SP".

Also, because "context is key" I decided to include a test on the 8 target set as well.



100 SP is a very sensible amount for a "midpoint functionality test" since it's the drop-off point where the 10% Bonus resides. Functionally, it seems like it's about the halfway mark for Precision in Galea's build - with 0 assigned Precision SP she had 41427 Precision, with 100 SP assigned that amount was 45231, and with all SP assigned her Precision is 51792 / 51432 (depending on whether or not I have the Omnipotent Helm equipped) and she carries 4K extra Might.

The numbers from yesterday's "0 SP" test didn't change, because I didn't run it again. That video is right up Hnyaah, we all just saw it.

So, the single target test is performed under the same operational standards as yesterday - No Buffs, 3x 30 Second Parse, one with the 251 SP Build (I know that's a *little* higher than a Might build, but Girl Got Weapon Combos and a Robot, Yo) and one with the Full SP Build.

Test Subject: Galea Kimone (Precision Build Mental) 3x 30 second Parse, single target, with Doom Spin.

• Series #1 with 200 Arts and 100 allocated SP in Precision or Might had three parses - 46065, 43936, 50400 per second, respectively. Average 46800/s.
  
• Series #2 with 200 Arts, 285 SP in Precision and 66 in Might also had three parses - 52181, 53530, 52748 per second, respectively. Average 52819/s.

That's only 317 more than yesterday, FYI.

But still - between the two? A difference of 6000/s, almost flat.

The 8 target test (AOE test) was a bit more uhm... decisive.

Test Subject: Galea Kimone (Precision Build Mental) 3x 30 second Parse, 8 target, with Doom Spin.

• Series #3 with 200 Arts and 100 allocated SP in Precision or Might had three parses - 89473, 106886, 97537 per second, respectively. Average 97965/s.
  
• Series #4 with 200 Arts, 285 SP in Precision and 66 in Might also had three parses - 118893, 116119, 116189 per second, respectively. Average 117067/s.

And y'all thought I was insane for using Doom Spin.

But yeah, for multitarget it's basically a 20% increase over the 100 SP + Crits and Friends.

Two Caveats:

Any parse on a given day is purely up to the whims of RNGeezus. Make of that what you will.

The other side of that coin is this:

100 SP in Precision is also comfortably above the threshold established by "crits and combos only", so it's also a meaningful, significant increase in character power. For more: do more. This is a game, after all.

Nice work...It does seem to firm up on the fact that while the additional 185 SP in the tree is helpful, it's only about as much as the first 100 as far as output value....meaning 200 SP (easily attainable with a minimal amount of effort AND access to the runs) is as or more valuable than the +200 SP to get to 400 that most are asking for. No...you will not 'top the board' with 200 SP, but it should be enough that you can participate, and more importantly adding in 200 Artis (which ARE purchasable already) can still make you a decent mid level (or even high level....depending on your group) DPS.

Nice work and thanks....for all the good it will do for the 'lemmie buy them though', crowd.

BTW....where's that SAMMICH?