There is a pretty decent between might and precision atm. Flurry shot and doom spin arm is over performing. Today’s the only thing that is required to do some damage is artifact at 200 and enough skill points to unlock weapon mastery, cries and either precision or might! Would be great for the deba to actually do there own testing and balance everything.
I really don't agree with the "but precision should be stronger than might anyway because of X". They're two distinctive playstyles, and one shouldn't be stronger than the other. If looking at risk vs reward, flurry shot really is broken when it gives out a big reward with no risk involved whatsoever, unlike a rage trying to melee or someone using 2h doomspin, even if those may be a little overboard. Flurry shot needs to be toned down, and the other weapon combos need to be looked at to bring variety to precision. Meanwhile, might shouldn't be overlooked. Certain "weak" powersets should be looked at too (Mental, Sorcery, Ice...), and exploits should be fixed (Nature).
I don’t disagree with your statement, there are two different play style, but in reality all powers can melee using doomspin, Rage like every other power in the game has a range loadout, I have a munitions as my primary toon that is might range dps, and there are times were I like to melee with splosion (risk vs reward) with no luck and damage is terribly lacking. Good old times in the AM era, miss it baaaadd!!!!
Both do need to be toned down though, but only minimally, neither combo needs a huge nerf, just a slight touch, especially doom spin. However, nerfing flurry would just eventually cause a domino effect that will create chants of nerf amplified heat vision, since it’s needed for St dmg with all might powers (exluding celestial, and Hl).
It has nothing to do with might dps being salty, the fact that you are trying to use skill points as an argument means you know very little. This game is all about artifact's now. I'm almost certain a prec dps with max artifacts and enough SP for weapon mastery and some prec would out dps a might player who only had 80 artifacts but max might & power. (I could be wrong on that but I'm highly doubtful) I'm just sick of doomspin because it's luring wannabe scoreboard chasers into playing like absolute tools in lfg. They just all get stuck in and a lot of the time die. Otherwise, I don't actually care about the scoreboard as long as I get the run done as quick and efficient as possible.
You forget that one point in "Weapon Mastery" gives you 10% of "Weapon DPS", which corresponds to about 1-1.25% increase in damage in general, if we are not talking about some ridiculously small amount of SP (for example, that you get from the CR skip) this one point more than compensates for the additional costs of SP for precision...
The premise "more 'top tier' players are prec because prec is the best" is flawed. Prec is popular because it's a one-size-fits-all cookie cutter build that has worked fine for a very long time combined with the fact some people just like the way it feels. It's the "net deck" of DCUO builds, which isn't a bad thing. Prec isn't some magical gateway to 1337dom. I'm might and not nature. I've met fewer than about a dozen prec players who reach even 75% of my output in any content, with most lucky if I don't outright double them. Have met mebbe 2-3 where the output is pretty much equal but, in so doing, they're also extreme high-risk glass cannons who have to be really careful whereas I can laugh into a current-tier elite boss' face for an extended period without dropping rotation without much worry. Can achieve fairly comparable results with other powers. This is also achieved while I'm wearing a bloody Tetra from which the other DPS are also benefiting. Might balance is actually pretty decent atm with the hardest hitting ones being more susceptible to interrupt and vice versa. The practical ceilings for both prec and might are pretty much where they ought to be atm, nature included. Edit: I really wish people would stop complaining about Doomspin especially... if trash mobs aren't already almost dead by the time they reach the meat of the combo then they're beating people's trash damage because the other DPS are underperforming. Similarly, prec does better in reg than it does in elite in general... but still not enough to justify all these fruitless complaints.
Not saying it to brag and the prec players at the same tier could say the same for the most part. Saying it because these "waahhhh prec op" threads are toxic and asinine (OP even appears to be a smurf account of a person who posted, essentially, the exact same whine thread not that long ago). Also, I didn't mean I only know a few "DPS" who can keep up, I mean I only know a few "prec DPS" who keep up. I know a lot of good might DPS as well and, overall, the good might players I've encountered have performed better on average but the ceiling is still at the same place for both and the higher average is likely a result of that aforementioned cookie-cutter appeal diluting the prec talent more heavily. That said, the overall number of 100% maxed-out-performance players I know is pretty much evenly spread between might and prec and, while I don't keep track, I've met at least one person on every power, prec and might, who does it well enough that it's obvious the balance right now is actually really good. Just as HL's, Gadgets', and Mental's output in actual content is less than their Sparring Target output, so too is Prec's. Same thing with Elec/Nature AoE. Consistency is a huge part of real, practical performance (which is also why most DPS comps are facepalm-inducing when players do it in content where everything is practically a sparring target and they virtually never have to stop DPSing for any reason). I've run with plenty of people outside my league. This isn't a small sample size. This is over the course of the last several years. Also, it's not like there's an unfathomable number of players in high-end endgame at any given time. The overall game community is huge but the endgame community really isn't. Of relevance to the "prec op" QQ (not directed at you): - Mentioned this a bit already but prec will always have its best performance in reg and weaker content than it does in elite content. There's no way around this. It's a glass cannon. In elite it has to play it a bit safer whereas vs weaker stuff it can sit at point blank range and everything is basically a better looking Sparring Target. This creates an illusion to inexperienced or reg-only players that Prec is better than it is. - A Rage/Elec being permafed green circles has an advantage, prec or might, in that they can maintain Berserk/CB permanently whereas everyone else can only maintain 50% Neo uptime (w tac swap). That's not a prec vs might thing though. Pretty much nothing can match a Rage player who can safely sit at close range against multiple targets while spamming Berserk. Realistically, given how innately squishy any given prec player is, Prec is underpowered (relatively speaking). I can't tell you the number of times I've taken a hit that puts me at 30% health while 1-2 prec players next to me get instagibbed. Glass cannon builds are supposed to hit harder, but here they cap out at the same level. Arguably, this is more of an issue with overtuning certain boss attacks but hopefully you get my meaning herer.
Saying that flurry is overachieving when compared to every might rotation, when that simply isn’t true. I’ve mentioned what powers are maximizing flurry’s potential in another post, and excluding rage and electric, the powers I mentioned have to be coupled with a decent amount of skill points so those rotations can be run efficiently, people have been crying about skill point not mattering, but crying about flurry at the same time, that’s kind of ironic. Also, you failed to notice how arts factor into this argument. Everybody simply doesn’t have might artifacts, you Need a 200 solar amp just to do decent numbers for might ST, and you might need grim, or you might need soul cloak depending on your power. However, with prec you only need trans, strat, and venom , well you’re kinda forced to play with those arts simply because the other prec arts aren’t really viable lol. Now, you have venom which is more than likely already at 200 because of the past whines that catalyzed a nerf, and then you have trans and strat which are universal, and can be used with any power, Safer options, considering the investment toll of artifacts. I’m sure these players you mentioned used bow into smokebomb before the nerf, meaning they already had a 200 venom, and only needed to pair it with trans and strat to fulfill their art setup. MIGHT NEEDS A BUFF IN THE ST AREA!!!, and doomspin needs to be brought down a little. Although Flurry is good, it’s only excelling with certain powers
I remember the wm spec. It’s the 17th spec for a flurry shot build if you’re spec’ing into bow first. Without that one spec, everyone would have to be a might dps to do any good damage. If the calls for nerfing prec were due to players being unhappy with the test results between their might builds and their prec builds, then I wouldn’t have said anything about anyone being salty. When I test, I take my artifacts off. My prec build still outperforms my might build sans any artifacts and I’m fine with that because my prec build leaves me hurting for skill points more than my might build. I know the game isn’t about skill points anymore, but they are still a grind and grind should have a payoff. If I take the best performing build for me (prec) into a raid and that translates into me being the top dps, it wouldn’t be only because I was prec. And prec dps aren’t always on top. I’m definitely not. Like someone said before, this is the closest to balance the game has ever been. Just for the record, I’m not against balance. But let’s balance both sides of the coin: the input and the output. Might dps can spec into 2 major stats at the same time. If you put it on equal footing with precision, then why be precision?
Just wanna point out that's a terrible idea in general. Game is intentionally balanced around arti builds. Without them, all you're really doing is looking at old balance from years and years ago. That said, there are certain artifacts which shouldn't be worn for comparative testing, eg trans, just because all they do is broaden the performance brackets on any rotation without fundamentally altering capabilities (eg we get the most accurate comparative results when testing with the absolute minimum crit rate). Testing without Solar Amp, though, is kinda pointless. Similarly, some powers need Grim for PI or they can't compete (and the powers that do or don't need it are balanced as such accordingly).
what would be nice is too see some power specific artifacts introduced into the game rather than one bland generic band aid artifact. wouldnt be as easy but it could address many issues players are unhappy with while building on the system the revamp introduced. i would love to see some sort of power interactions brought back creating a better synergy between players.
The reason I think that’s not a good idea is that it will be bringing back a form of the AM days where if a power want to use it they will have to play a specific way.
I understand. But my testing is limited to only my power. I don’t test other powers. I just want to see which build, might or prec, deserves further investment into artifacts.
Already mentioned the advantages of CB and Berserk, which aren't exclusive to prec. You say that in jest but that's precisely why a lot of people do prec: It's waaaaaaayy simpler on controller and the inputs are universal. Conversely, pftt is way simpler on kbm, where on controller it's completey new muscle memory for the different flavours of rotation and awkward in comparison. Still not giving yourself accurate/useful results though. Putting the cart before the horse and artifacts are simply an integral part of the game balance such that testing with no artis on provides no useful information beyond obtaining the raw damage of individual attacks. For rotation comparison, it's detrimental. If it's just to decide what to invest in, invest in what you prefer.
Berserk's never "ranged" jfc. This is fruitless lol you're being intentionally obtuse. It doesn't matter anyways. When someone's able to match/exceed top tier prec output on a might power, and pretty much match, in practice, that power's output with every other power, that objectively shatters the "ermagerd prec op" qq argument. "Top" players will be "top" players no matter if they're prec or might and no matter what power they're on. If as much effort was put into the game as goes into these QQ threads, those who post them probably wouldn't feel the need. That's the last I'll say on it, sorry for interrupting the nerf cry circlejerk.
Ok. Now I see what’s happening here. I don’t test rotations. I have a rotation for might and a rotation for prec which are pretty much set in stone. Without arts, I get more damage with the prec. With arts, I doubt that will change. If you think that’s flawed, then I’ll tell you my power and rotations for prec and might and you can test both builds with arts. I can’t be leveling up 3 might artifacts just to see if the results will be different.
The thing is that you can’t be using one loadout for everything. Both might and prec require different loadouts for meee/range/ST. And even than the artifacts will change too. Atm my damage for most prec rotations is 40k+ at cr300 for ST while my might js at 35k+. The difference is that my might artifacts aren’t maxed out and I don’t have dlc augments for might. Plus my generator mods are prec and so are my elite mods so I am missing almost 9k might. So my might loadouts will do more if I were to max out all those things.
Isn't it sorta the case with prec right now? I did a brawling prec with fire today (excuse me for playing for the lulz). I got outdamaged in an alert by a nature healer. I had 18CR and the healer had 12. All I saw was her swinging her giant axe around by doing doom spin. She wasn`t even using damage role gear. I don`t dispute your argument that might overdamages prec, because I am yet to be outdamaged by a weapon player with my rage toon, but, let's be honest, the cookie cutter loadouts didn`t disappear since revamp. They just changed. Conversely, what I think it would be the best idea is not to nerf whoever is in the spotlight, but buff whoever isn`t. This would make the game more balanced. I never understood why many games level the options from below, instead of levelling from above, i.e, why they nerf the strong instead of buffing the weak.
