Test Discussion Episode 27: More Loot and Rewards Feedback

The way you changed the dropped gear actually makes it slower to gear up compared to before if I chose to rely on dropped gear, not to mention we now get less dropped gear than before. To top it all off, following this system you are still having us relying on RNG trying to collect enough purple drops not only for the style and the feat attached to it but to try and reach the highest CR possible through dropped gear and from my own experience and many others running AF3-content on test, the current droprate for purple gear is rather terrible.

So again, gearing up your off-role will take a lot of time AND money and will practically force you to put other toons on the backburner.
To me and many others this is an obvious issue, I just can't believe that you guys figured it was a good idea to end up doing nothing about it.

the content is not large enough to last 12 weeks. not to mention that you have to play all of the daily content without fail and run each raid every week without fail to get to the 12 week mark. And if you wan the elite and regular feats off your list you are talking even more time.

Before RNG gear was stated to designed around a full set in 8 weeks on average and since it was only available in raids you really only had to run 1 or 2 raids a week. why the shift in vendor gear to 12 weeks playing everyday model? Seems like best gear in vendor is being handicapped from the start.

I don't understand why this game has to go from one extreme to another, to another.

The way this is we might as well park every alt we have.
I play just about every day and I know I will not have time to keep my alts up.

I don't mind the grinding but 6 months on the same, what 6 missions, everyday?

Tread very lightly here. Unless you want to turn off new players entirely and solely depend upon your existing base, you need to be very careful how you balance this. If the increase is not linear (say you hit 75-80% potential at 150-ish SP with smaller gains thereafter) then the system will not be so bad for newbies as grinding out 150-ish SP really does not take that long and these players will not be at a huge disadvantage to the majority of the population.

However, if it is linear or, even worse, an exponential increase in power the more SP you have, you will create two problems: insane power creep and a huge divide in power that will discourage any new players from trying to catch up as the grind will be too much. I'm sure you are considering quite a few things here but do not forget that player perception is huge and may not always match what you think they should think.

Regarding the timing between episodes, I think you guys are missing the mark here by a lot. The amount of content announced for AF3 will not keep players' attention that long. Trying to create longevity by making gearing up and completing everything a huge chore will backfire. Again, I direct you to player perception. If the majority of players view the grind as boring and tedious, they will not do it. They will get bored, flame out the forums and quit.

I understand that this is all new but I get the feeling that you do not think the players know what they want and you could not be more wrong. They know exactly what they want: fun and meaningful progression in a reasonable amount of time. They are telling you exactly what they want and how they want it. Dismissing this feedback and telling people that they do not understand what they want but you do will not end well. You need customers for your product. If you don't want to sell them the product they want, they will buy it somewhere else.

This is what the community requested with getting rid of monthly content. The amount of content in AF3 equals put exactly to what you get in a 3 monthly cycle of content.

So in essence? What's the complaint?

This^

The daily quests (solo, duo, and alert) Take about 30min-45min to complete at best and an hour at worst. So if you focus on the 3 alts, then you really need at least 3 hours to work with at worst.

6 alts? Then you will need to invest in the time just like you are doing now.

Dropped gear from content can be improved on till CR188. Vendor and Elite gear are CR189. The stat difference between drop and vendor is not too big. Your off role can do fine with CR188

So your main role can be vendor and your off role can be dropped gear with a couple vendor pieces to get you at least CR189.

So in essence, you absolutely DO NOT need vendor gear to beat the content as proven by the testers. So consider that wisely.

So you've stated that no changes will be made to the vendor gear prices here:

And stated as well that you're only focusing on 1 character 1 role.

Also you've said that you can get the elite gear, but in that case you woudln't be taking the normal gear, which means no feat until 12 weeks afterwards.

All that I see, without being conspiracy theorist is trying to make money out of replay badges. Getting rid of the randomness in the game means getting rid of the people who replay it non stop to get the gear they need.

I get it you're a buisness, and you need money, but you can't expect to have this system and keep your player base intact.

A big thing that I assume most of my fellow members would agree is, If I'm paying a subscription I don't see the reason why I should have to buy replay badges to being able to get the whole gear/experience of a dlc/episode. This including elite raids which hasn't been for the longest time.

With the one character and one role progression I can see the gear unlocking being a thing in the future. Of course you all had this in mind for more money. I know you had in mind for the people that really wanted to have multiple characters at a good level, but the money intention is there, once again I get it, but don't expect wining more than you will lose, that's just not the right way to do this buissness.

It's been for the longest time the case that before the next batch of episodes one is able to fully gear both of their roles. You've expressed in the past how you want a good comunity with people helping each other, people being able to do both roles is that, that's why you also introduced the armories a while back.

Yet this one role progression is against of all that. It's not the first time you contradict yourselves, I get it but if you're doing it for the money, there has been so many plausible models for you to monetize the game instead of breaking the comunity and making players leave.

I've went through all of the important updates, and this is the first time i'm actually considering unsubing. I'm here to play a game an MMO at the best I can, I know grinding it's part of an MMO, we have grinding in this game to throw out of the window ( I'm looking at you LPVE) there is a lot a lot of grinding. Introducing more grinding to the gear and mods it's just not what will apeal the comunity.

You've expressed how you want to close the gap between being skilled vs not skilled. What you're doing is the oposite. This is just giving people that can grind all the time to have an oportunity to be closer to the skilled ones just by stats alone, doesn't matter how skilled I am, If I don't have the stats it doesnt matter.

I don't want this game to become another job, I already got one. I get it's my decision to grind or not, but there is a moment when you have to consider what most of the people in the game wants. And that while it's a grind you have to keep it a sane levels.

A couple of questions in response to the topics listed here:

Is it your intent for this episode to last past the release of the next DLC, or is it intended to be completed by or before the next DLC?

A while back Mepps made a comment in regards to the stats revamp and support roles in duos etc. Maybe I read way too much into it but is some sort of unified gearset coming in the stats revamp?

But you also have to consider that we need the dropped gear for salvage feats and materials for the new mods.

You know this is exactly how it was when vendor gear was best before took months and months to get a full set. So congrats #bestinvendor players you got EXACTLY what you asked for and what you were warned it would be.

True. I forgot about the mods. The mods also have a feat tied to them as well if I'm not mistaken.

So you're ok with choosing between feats or gear? You're ok with marks dropping 50-40% less? This is a mmo. Mmo are centered around progression. The "you don't need to be fully geared. . ." is some of the dumbest stuff people say about a mmorpg. Especially a mmorpg like dcuo that don't have anything else but progression

Still prefer this system over the old system where best gear is dropped gear. At least in this system at the end of an Elite raid I can see my progression rather than see a green drop on the last boss and say oh well maybe next time.

totally agree

What is a primary character? After investing thousands of dollars in resetting content for alts and both roles, armories, auras, buying SP and feats, each character of mine is a primary character.

People play multiple alts because last few years or so, the drop gear permitted such progression without causing any burnout and also because they don't want to have to buy 100's of power respec tokens to change power when it becomes useless and players avoid it like a plague in their groups.

Playing a single power and a single role is actually a curse in this game and you are changing the entire existing continuity of progression design making duel role a near impossibility for players to achieve when largely the entire end gaming community is duel specced.

The new progression design is a grind on steroids. We asked you to alleviate unnecessary grind not treble it. You take our feedback and twist it in the most punishing progression design ever conceived.

Not long ago, Day Break publishers and the CEO of DCUO committed that excessive grinding will not be the future of DGB games and yet, the exact opposite is implemented.

You doubled the vendor costs, reduced the gear drops to one third, halved the currency rewards and created unnecessary mod grind which cannot be achieved in less than 6 months. What is the rationale behind all of this? I don't think that is anything like player feedback.

The reward system is the most twisted punishment for having faith in DBG. There is no need for any feedback if this is the approach of the community manager who fails to see the overwhelming negative feedback and clearly disregards the facts.

At cr175 DPS, players are able to complete the entry content very well. The solo, duo, and alert are all do-able at cr175. The maximum Cr that can be obtained by the drops is CR188. The vendor gear is CR189 and there's not much of a stat difference between both sets. So it's perfectly fine to have your off role be around CR188 for a time being. A couple vendor pieces and it becomes CR189.

Generator mods drop in content regularly and can be farmed. Many players did not pay a dime for them since it can be farmed. Granted this new method of getting mods is grindy, it is what it is.

That's bit incorrect according to the testing done. The daily quests take about 30-45min to complete at best and at worst 1 hour (solo,duo, and alert combined). The weekly content takes about 3-4 hours once a week (2 raids, open world quest). So with 2-3 alts, you can invest in 2 hours per day dedicated to DCUO. Which is perfectly do-able if you time out your day. 1 hour here, 1 there, and the other later even. Normally, a normal person with a family, job, and tasks...should have at least 2 hours kill to on a video game. There's 24 hours to work with...with at least 6-8 that you sleep with.

That's a little too far and a bit overreacting. Come on Kitty,

Well i think here is the issue. You developers seem to have built a system where it aimed at primary roles and we can get gear for off roles but not the vendor gear or elite gear until roughly 3 months have passed. Problem is you have developed a system in game with armories and off roles where the community actually likes gearing up both roles they like being a strong dps and are able to switch to a just as strong off-role at the push of a button which they wont be able to in the new dlc.

How about rather then going to from extreme to another, and if your not willing to lower the prices to the old prices, then have a compromise with your community and meet us in the middle. For example the old chest pieces cost 70 marks but now I'm hearing they cost 100 (my figures may be wrong but humor me here) so how about you meet us in the middle and go down to 85. This will still keep the longevity you developers are after but will please the community somewhat before this goes life cause it would still be easier to gear off roles then what we going to have now.

Honestly between getting gear to be able get by the content and choosing between 3-4 skill points....is a no brainer for me personally. For the way I progress, I don't need to have it all to be a competent player. That's just my opinion on that so take it as a grain of salt.

Marks still drop the same amount in the new content (as well as ancient coins I believe).

It's not dumb, I can still have a couple blue pieces and a bunch of purple to get CR175 and have around 120 skill points and still tank SM high rounds fine and I can still beat the Elite content fine. Because in my head, I know that a good group, personal skill, and a decent CR (or stat when it comes to #statmatters)....will still net me great results as a player.

I kinda got over that progression OCD a long time ago. You don't need every little stat and every piece of progression to be a competent player. It's the way I choose to play and I enjoy it.