Implants....let me get this straight...

So, you basically took away all the implants I had, all the work I had done with chargers and with upgrades....and you gave me NOTHING back?

And now I had to spend my ******* certs to get implants back....and after spending 4k certs, I STILL DIDN'T GET THE ONLY IMPLANT I ACTUALLY WANTED?

Seriously, go **** yourselves.

They give you two free implants and the rest is as ISO.

Sorry, not enough....I had a HUGE number of ******* implants, a bunch of them highly upgraded , not to mention a lot of superchargers.

This ******** has finally convinced me to drop my however-many-years-long subscription....paid for this game even when I didn't play for 3-month stretches and never considered unsubbing. This **** broke the camel's back...

Yeah, new implant system is hated by most people except the very most sunk cost fallacy'd fanboys. Even some of them are criticizing it.

Combined with the new player base system that demands a huge investment to make an actually defensible hive, PS2 is sliding down a slippery slope of p2w. The new implants added not only a huge grind/money requirement for an advantage (battle hardened, regen, catlike) that also has an RNG aspect. Many are considering this the death throes as DBG pushes the game more towards the likes of Perfect World games or Warframe. The game was already incredibly hostile towards new players with vehicle weapons and ability upgrades. It's getting worse.

Hopefully DBG will listen to complaints and give us back drops, at the very least. Lowering the cert cost of implant packs was also nice.

On the plus side, the new combined implants are kinda cool (even if the balance is still off: see the 3 above implants), and you don't need energy anymore. But it's one step forward, two steps back.

Taking away the implants people already had was really just salt on the wound.

Warframe where you reasonably 99.5%+ the gameplay items and even most of the cosmetic items for free, also the most heavily RNG walled items are simply traded for? That game? OK...

I was never heavily invested in implants or chargers - just enough to keep my Regen tier 1 going. I saved up a few certs from when I heard the new implants were coming and, basically, now I run Regen 3 or 4 which I got as almost a straight swap, plus some bonus (for me) tier 1 implants.

I feel sorry for OP and some others who have lost out and I think the amount of ISO you get is pretty poor. I hope they bring in the new ways to gain ISO soon. But the change hasn't affected me negatively and I imagine quite a few players now have functioning implants they weren't able to keep running previously. I also hear that some interesting new implants may be on the way too, so I'm saving up again.

They converted your old implants and chargers into ISO4, and considering the conversion rate and how fast you got implants/chargers you are at a pretty damn big advantage in speed to upgrade your new implants compared to players who have to pay certs to get it now.

The new implant system is designed to be a cert-sink, and you aren't supposed to max it out in quick succession. If they gave you all the implants you have before on a silver platter the entire system wouldn't have worked at all.

As for not getting the implant you wanted. Grow the hell up and be a man will ya? Look at the implants you have, you can make many many viable and useful combinations with them. And I bet that if you actually start using those combinations that you'll stop wanting your completely overrated BattleHardened.

This is not his argument, this is you turning his argument into your own, and then replying to that. He is complaining about losing what he had, not whether he has lost more or less than someone else.

It's not his argument either. He doesn't say he wants to max all implants. He doesn't say it shouldn't require work. He is saying that he spent time and effort into getting what he wanted, and that was taken from him. Now he can go and do it again. He invested 4000+ certs and that didn't bring him to where he was.

Such hostility against a fair point. Let me elaborate how it went for me. I will shortly describe what I gained, lost and what stayed the same or I don't care about. Then you can see that the new implant system isn't a win for everyone, or in some cases even a loss.

I gained:
Ammo printer - not that important, barely care
Catlike - fun to play with
Dual implant slot - every infantry now has same implant as before + catlike

I don't care about:
Energy - never ran out of it anyways
Assimilate - won't use
Vampire - won't use
Minor cloak - won't use
Merging of most implants - minor additions I don't need

I lost:
3000 certs
Awareness
Sensor shield

I went from having all implants (including all T4) with 400+ chargers and 25+ ultra chargers to 2 basic implants. No replacement for awareness and sensor shield - which I value much more than having catlike equipped as bonus. So you can call him (and me) a child for complaining about this, but in reality it's not an argument. Nice implants that were worked/paid for got taken without proper reimbursement. That is his argument.

Disregarding all else you said (as that is not the focus of my reply), you are categorically wrong here. to quote the OP "all the work I had done with chargers and with upgrades....and you gave me NOTHING back" so demigans responce (paraphrased) "you got a ton of iso4 for it brah... that aint nothing infact its a pretty damn big advantage over everyone else." you say "thats not his argument" like... what

His point is that he had implants, and now he doesn't. Suppose I take all the guns you unlocked away, and in return I give you the attachments. Next you have to buy crates that reward a random weapon back (which you can then upgrade for free because you have the attachments already).

Did you have a function weapon? Yes.
Do you have a function weapon after this change? No.

So, while technically he did get something back, it's not what he wanted, nor something he can use without investing certs first (again). So please explain, what was the point of your reply? Semantics?

The ISO conversion rate is the biggest issue with this.

You get 25 ISO for each duplicate implant which is broken down - which is crap considering how much you need to spend on implants and the ISO cost of upgrading.

So if you have all implants - and sink 750 certs to get 9 duplicates - you get 225 ISO when you convert them.

To upgrade a single implant from level 4 to level 5 takes around 2400 ISO - that means you would have to sink 8250 certs into buying implant packs just to break down and provide enough ISO for that single upgrade (and that's without factoring all of the ISO you need to get the implant to level 4 in the first place or spending certs on other things like weapons).

Some implants you may not need to upgrade to level 5 as they confer limited benefits lower down the scale - but for something like Catlike - even though you get the crouch speed bonus lower down - the jump height bonus doesn't kick in until level 5.

*sighs*
Lets flip this around.
is the premise of his position unsound. Are you saying that "he got nothing back" is factually true? (whether he values what he got is irrelevant). you cannot answer "yes" because it is not factually true.

you then assert "not wanted" quite possibly true. but here is where you argument falls short "nor something he can use without investing certs first " as unless i am wrong, you get 2 default implants at least one of which is useful for most players at one point or another. he can cert that up to max rank, and he would be better of than 90% of the player base. he still has his advantage if he chooses to use it. it may not be as flexible but it exists.

He can choose to invest to get other implants, thats his choice, or he can stick with maxed out defaults if he wants, but either way, he has a better footing than everyone else. they are not useless. they may not be AS useful, but he got something, that makes his position unsound. it is not semantics, its the very ground upon which his argument rests.

So... Because my argument isnt the same, its a problem? If my argument was the same then we wouldnt be having a discussion now would we?
What you probably mean is that you think I'm talking about a different part of the same subject, but thats not true either. OP claims he didnt get anything in return, I point out he got upgrade points and immediately make the connection as to why this actually is relevant.

I also point out why moaning about having your previous work converted, rather than removed/stolen/lost, is kind of necessary considering how the new system works. And your previous work still gives you an edge vs newer players as you can max out things quicker.

And its not a fair point hes making. Its closer to a tantrum. So I tell him to grow up.

Level 3 implants overall are plenty powerful. Just like most players never unlocked nanoweave 5 because they could spent their certs better.
Smart players will unlock level 3 for most implants they use, then upgrade their favorites to level 4 or 5. Upgrading from level 4 to 5 takes more ISO4 than from level 1 to level 4. So for starters, dont bother with level 5 unless you are swimming In ISO4. Its just not economical.

I only ever used regen 1 with the old implant system and i never changed it to anything else regardless of whether i was tanking or w/e.

when the implant system changed, I started off with over 30,000 implant points (w/e they are called) so now i have a whole bunch just maxed out, and can actually use them because theres no stupid energy drain.

so from my perspective i dunno what the fuss is about.

You seem to be playing dense just for kicks.

Of course I wasn't correct in saying "nothing". It's called hyperbole.

What DID happen was, I lost my implants that actually mattered, and after spending 4 ******* thousand certs, I STILL don't have the one that I consider the only necessary one. I got everything else in like 70 ******* drops, EXCEPT the one I wanted. And the ONE I ALREADY HAD BEFORE. And as for the upgrade currency I got....I CAN'T ******* UPGRADE WHAT I DON'T HAVE.

And I don't even have a chance (which I had before) of constructing the implant I actually WANT. It's all ******* random packs, the bane of modern internet-based games....******* packs of every ******* thing under the sun. I'm so tired of this model...

You don't take **** away from players, don't give them equivalent stuff back and expect them to remain passive and accept their new fate. I don't like getting ****** in the *** without a chance for a reach around, thank you very much.

Say you bought multiple packs and still did not get the implants you wanted to use that you had previously. If the rng was not in your favor I'm guessing it's possible someone in the same boat as you would be irritated. Most of the implants are easy to obtain but it is possible to buy a lot of packs and not get what you want, excluding the rares. I used regen frequently, hoped to get it on one of my characters, bought 3 packs and ended up with 24 duplicates... Sure I can buy more packs and should get it eventually but it's crazy that I have to spend so much cert points or station cash for something I already had.

Mmmmmmm... well I guess, i bought one 300 pack and two 750 packs, and i got sweeper, vampire, regen, ammo printer, several dozen times, maxed them all, and still have 16000 points left :S

I guess others had a **** deal.

smells like fanbois in here... smh

Being hyperbolic means it was exaggerated... you didn't exaggerate, an exaggeration would have been "i got something absolutely worthless" (as iso4 is realistically speaking anything but as the vast majority of players require and would love to get a ton of the stuff). Outright lying and misrepresenting the situation is what you did, because you changed the facts (you got something but said you didnt), and did so solely to get support for your position... thats not "hyperbolic" its lying and when you support your conclusion with a premise made of lies, the conclusion isn't realistically supported very well.

The old system was as bad, I spent months trying to get sensor shield 3 or 4, i spent tons of certs on packs just to supplement my in game earn, because i wanted it that badly, and i never got it. sure it hasnt been released yet, which is a shame, but atleast now, if i have the lowest tier unlocked, i will be certain i can get the higher tier, something i prefer. Not to mention i have a ton of other cool and useful implants most of which come completely useful at tier 1...

"the bane of modern internet-based games" maybe to you, many people enjoy having a shot at super rare items through some form of loot crate, thing is, this game does it well, because you don't need to spend IRL money to open the crate like you do in most other MMO's, that said the current incentives aren't great, i mean the rare implants suck (but i hear we are supposed to be getting faction specific implants, but don't quote me on that and i would guess these will be atleast uncommon atleast if not rare).

No they can, if the old system is worse than the new one. For most people this system is an upgrade... new players get a couple of implants that actually work, vets can generally buy the packs to get better implants and already had a ton of upgrade points, sure some people get screwed, thats the risk with loot boxes, but overall its better. If people stopped complaining because they didnt get that 1 implant they wanted, and worked with what they did get, frankly, everything would turn out well.

you just seem like a petulant child who didn't get what he wanted so hes screaming and throwing his stuff out the pram.

The irony being, I don't like the new system much either, I just dislike people being idiots and lying about the situation just to get sympathy and support for a factually impossible position, especially when for most people its an upgrade to the old system.

i feel you, it now takes something like 12,000 certs to rank up a single implant,

and that is after dumping 750 certs repeatedly simply to get the implant you want.
or you can whip out your creditcard and gamble much faster
its a pretty extortionate and transparent cashgrab.

(even the implants that you already had which were deleted only get converted into a small amount of "iso-4"
nowhere near enough to get back what you already had.)