Amazing how many people just don't understand basic FPS mechanics. Not even taking in to account the terrible hip fire accuracy, you have a weapon that does less overall dps, combined with a slow rof and high single bullet damage to compensate. The reason this is bad at cqc in this game and every game in the history of games, is because each individual shot is a larger percentage of your total damage. Every individual bullet you miss significantly increases your TTK, causing you to lose close quarter engagements. This is why a gun with a faster ROF is valued in close quarters in all games, because each individual missed shot isn't as punishing to the shooter.
But at the end of the day, its the TR that end up losing in CQC because they have the worse accuracy. TTk, DPS, w/e you call it. The NC alpha more then makes up for thier lower RoF, especially in the case of the NC6. I dont win every CQC engagement, but more times then I know I have been engaged first and the high dmg of the NC6 has won me the fight, while the VS/TR guys are busy missing me and losing.
i think VS has the better LMG. there weapons have much lower recoil with fast fire rate and good damage. giving them an overall very good DPS and the accuracy is superb to that of the gauss saw or the carv.
Hip fire is irrelevant for the most part as that is more about twitch skills and who circle strafes the best. In CQC most of the time you are pulling up some kind of sight so hipfire arguments are null. When you have a sight up the NC LMGs low recoil keeps more shots on target and the higher bloom of the TR LMGs means you miss more shots. Which is not to say the NC need to be nerfed but rather TR need to have access to more recoil management options and higher damage ammo. These small adjustments are already in game in the form of attachments but not all attachments are available for all weapons. This needs to be changed so that each weapon can be better customized for the user's intent and not how the devs think the gun should perform. In the end the guns which perform the best in close combat will always be more popular than the guns for range since every infantryman will have to close for captures or defense at some point or another. Giving one faction better CQC options is an easy way to create frustration in the opposing groups.
TR guns are very accurate in the ranges that they are supposed to be effective. If more TR learned to shoot the Carv in 12-15 round bursts they would see how deadly the gun is but they don't. If the Carv had close to the SAW horizontal recoil then it would be totally op seeing that it does more dps. It is meant to be a short mid range gun TR have other options for longer range. Are they better then the SAW at long range? No and they are not supposed to be. Play to your strengths. Also Knightcole the more of your posts I read the clearer it becomes that you are a bitter ex TR trolling for a nerf. I mean how long you gonna be BR 20 bro? Anybody that plays all three factions and actually takes the time to to learn and use the guns and faction strengths can see that they are pretty well balanced. Learn the guns learn what it feels like to fire the maximum amount of shots you can fire at different ranges and still be accurate.
Polaris is the king of CQC LMGs for the vanu. The LSW, SVA-88 and the Orion cannot compare with a fully certed Polaris. I'm also willing to bet the Polaris has a place on the top 3 CQC lmgs in PS2.
If you round a corner and come across an enemy (particularly a shotgun wielding one) and you go ADS - you're already wasted time if they decide to hip fire where you're almost always going to lose. Most LMG's have a significant movement penalty while you're ADSing and if you're moving into A point in your typical tower, you're going to be firing from the hip with an LMG. If they're an LA going vertical or someone jumping like a moron, at least the way my sensitivity is set up, it's difficult to track those movements while ADS. I'm only ADS in CQC if I have the drop on someone and they're unaware of my presence and I can almost guarantee the win.
Well, I have been BR20 for like 3-4 days, 9K to BR21. I only am able to play this game a few hours each night, and it seems the times im able to play the NC as a whole are not on and were warpgated on all 3 conts. As for EX TR trolling for a NC nerf. No, im not. I am just in opposition to all those people who claimed the TR were OP and that the NC are so UP. Early on I was reading tons of posts about how the NC were so UP and so hard to play. Also, reading posts that the CARV was SssooOOoooo OP that it needed nerfing in GU1. Now that it has been nerfed, the TR I just found pretty lame. The CARV was a bit overnerfed really. The CARV prior was able to 12-15 round burst and kill a person, afterwards...the recoil became so bad it was hard to 5 round burst anyone and have the rounds not landing on the moon. I ran with Grip/Suppressor and x1 optic. Yes, I know the Suppressor lowered effective range and dmg, but I accounted for that and even in CQC the gun still lost alot. Even without, it still lost alot. Then, you go NC and you already have low left and right recoil, then its said NC have bad recoil, but we get more then enough upgrades to all but cancel out our chief weakness. I am able to fire 2 spotting rounds, then burst just like I used to do on TR, 10-15 rounds for a kill(its around 7-12 for NC). Now im on the NC and from BR1 I was more attracted to the sheer dmg of the nation. I do not like guns that require extended bursts to drop guys. Rather, I like to see a target, acquire, burst it, drop it, move on. TR was my 1st faction, I was a noob, but I learned the game and by day 2 I was rolling a positive KD. I played up to BR24 on TR, had my tank tricked out, had a T16 and TMG50 tricked out. All the guns I hated for the same reasons, to much left and right recoil and lack of a x2 optic. (TMG50 has one obviously).
NC have the best long range LMGs no doubt, but at shorter ranges the VA/TR lmgs are distincly superior.
Ya know why I love my SAW? Besides it's obvious anti-infil capabilities I mean. I need one bullet. Just one. If I hit you even once... I have an assist. I've played my TR and Vanu alts a bit, and it frustrates me to no end that I can not peg you with one shot as you round the corner running away from me, and expect EXP (and with it, confirmation that you died). No, I need to hit you a few times. With my NC weapons (AC-X11, NC6 Gauss SAW, even my Magshot. How awesome is that?) I do not feel the need to go out of my way to hunt you down. I do not feel the need to round that corner and get a face full of fire. I hit you, you expect me, and so I will ignore you, and leave you to my fellow NC. It was not a waste of ammo to take that shot. I will go hunt enemies that were just recently shot in the back by some other NC to return the favor. (Not that I won't gun you down mind, just that I won't chase you) It's also helpful in the event that I am laying down fire with a lot of allies. Again, just one hit means XP. That is why I love my SAW. Ya it's petty, but seeing that "You got XP!" flash along with the ding is rewarding. Makes me feel good. I'm not about to turn down the extra XP either, every little bit counts. ...It's also fun to plink-plink people from range and still do enough damage that they're pretty much forced to take cover or die. Wonderful suppression weapon.
Yes, the NC have the better LMGs. It's very simple really. However, the difference between the 3 faction weapons isn't huge. It's not like the NC are OP though, they just have a little bit easier to manage, harder hitting weapons which is more beneficial in 9 out of 10 situations in my experience. I love the NC weapons though I main TR. But at the end of the day I think it's a lot about playstyle and what feels right. I feel that I do better whenever I use the Gauss Saw than any of the TR options. Same with the EM6 or Gauss Saw S. I really want to like the TMG 50 but it constantly just feels like a less accurate version of an NC weapon. Fine if it had higher RoF, but it doesn't. The Carv is so random and for those of us who don't have uber skills it feels like it doesn't excel anywhere, not even in CQC where there are shotguns and stuff going on. I use it now as a transitional weapon because I'm not very good with shotguns and CQC stuff, but I still feel that I'd take the Gauss Saw.
As a base weapon - yes. Overall? I think the high cert Vanu LMGs are pretty nasty, but the TR ones are dire due to low dps, same rof, and less recoil management options.
The NC LMGs are not the best by avg score/hour: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=37 It appears the VS have a slight advantage, with 4 of the top 10 and the SVA-88 coming in 1st.
The SVA-88 was much derided (well, maybe not that much, but it didn't' seem like the favoured one), but it's interesting to see that it gets the most kills/hour and score. What makes it tick? 0.75 speed ADS multiplier?
Basically the NC6 outperforms in that limited 40-65m range. THAT'S IT! At longer ranges the so called "high damage, no recoil shot" is rather meaningless. Wow you hit a guy twice before he ran off.. wounded but still alive. The battle rifles, even though they suck do better, I've used both. At CQC you have to be crazy to think even a fully tricked out NC6 is better then virtually any other weapon, let alone another ES-LMG. After romanticizing the NC6 and trying to use it at cqc or long range, for a long time, I realized it's rather crappy vs most of the other guns in the game. If you miss even 1 shot your DPS and TTK increase DRAMATICALLY vs all other LMGs or pretty much any gun in the game. I personally could care less if they nerf the NC6 into the ground, I never use it. EM6 is far superior in every situation. I get many more kills at cqc and it's easier to get long range kills because recoil is lower and ROF is higher. I can semi auto head shots in half the time. 143x2 is better then 167x1 at long range...... If you check the stats the em6 is actually the king of the 167-143 LMG's. It's a beast. Try it in VR. As far as NC6 being OP or UP. The stats don't lie. NC is almost always last other then MAX and since the nerf it has fallen dramatically. Even though we are last in everything the Empires are really rather even now. We don't really need more nerfs to anything. What we need are buffs to stuff to bring them in line with other stuff. Battle rifles, Vanguard ROF, medic AR's, MBT increased armour/Hit points(all empires), rear armour option for tanks, a counter to invisible infiltrators ( permanent engineer motion mines) or (implant audio amplifier) The "is this gun OP or UP" threads are getting old. I respect all the posters in this thread, I respect their opinions, but can we move on to other subjects other then constant nerfing.
The TR and the VS stock, zero cert guns are almost as good as our fully certed weapons. NC has to spend hundreds of certs just to get basic functionality.
