On the topic of UI upgrades, I think the EQ2 interface has pretty much everything it needs, but in my opinion its biggest problem is organisation and appearance, so my suggestions would be Have an attractive default option, with the option of a HUD you can put everything in in the bottom of the middle of the screen, currently a new player has a scattering of user interfaces peices around which suits an experienced player more but isn't as visually appealing as it could be. An opaque HUD that embeds the minimap, XP bar, 2-8 rows of buttons, threat meter and rounded off with some beautiful graphics would be nice. I think it would be good with the above suggestion to have a window pop up with say three defaults you could cycle through along with some text to tell a new player that they can customise it as they wish as the first thing they see just after the charater creation screen as a final step. Even an animation showing the possibilites would be a good addition, it might be fluff but it if its pleasing to the eye then its got to be good for new players. When you get new combat arts that are a direct upgrade of a previous combat art then just replace that one, going from MasterII to apprentice is normally an upgrade for most things, come to think of it. If the game is designed in that way then we could remove them from the spell book. Things that won't have direct upgrades probably will be things like the create arrows skill for Rangers, yet even there I'm not sure if any Ranger would seriously want 50 or so arrows 10 levels too low for them rather then 15 arrows at their level. I find the slider gadget on the chat window is small and fiddly, having it so that you can click on the central window and scroll up would be a nice addition (leaving the slider in just so people aren't lost when they first see it), make the cursor change as you hover over it to a scroll icon would be good. The chat change icon is even fiddlier (so I always end up typing it), making it the same size as the rarely used tabs and at the top of the chat window would be cool. Personalise the party bar, having a small portrait on the left for each character would look very good, experienced players could turn if off. Some players I know of go for 3D moving portraits in WoW, each to their own but as a default someone you are adventuring with shouldn't be just a health bar. I know this is something a lot of other games do, but I think its too good a feature to avoid, it also plays to one of EQ2's strengths, people actually look different plus I can look at a glance to see who it is most of the time (if a proper portrait is selected instead of just a racial picture, alternatively having the class could be another route). Either option is handy for pugs when you have a new ever changing party. More feedback visually, not really part of the UI but seeing and hearing clangs (and sparks) for parries, thud/clangs for blocks tells the player what is going on without having to look at the combat log. But some things just don't seem to be fedback to the player, as a guardian I'm not really sure if my taunts land a lot of the time, I press the button, it activates but there is no response on the interface, not even on the threat meter, I guess its resisted, but some way of knowing would be good that does not resort to the combat log. Make it all more beautiful, right now its very functional looking. Most things have harsh angles, a combat art could be square, but having the bar its in softened would be nice, I think the script design for epic mobs would be the cue for the styling I'd pick here since it gives the classic everquest 2 look to things. An auto-stack-bags-across-the-screen in a tidy fashion feature could be good, at least as a switch with the default to sort them for you, experienced players can turn if off if they don't like it. One problem I do know at least WoW players have with EQ2 is responsiveness, its not actually a UI thing but I think I should mention it. One of the loudest complaints is that there is no global cooldown, and some people I know have had the same problem with WAR since they are so used to the WoW system. It took me some time to get used to EQ2 and I've realised that actually its more responsive since using a basic ability goes like this EQ2 : lag then 0.5s cast time then hit then 0.5s wait time, 0.5s cast time then hit then 0.5s wait time etc WoW : lag then hit then 1.5s global cooldown, wait for lag, hit then 1.5s global cooldown etc So in EQ2 (and the same in WAR) since I can queue the abilities in advance free of the global cooldown I can avoid lag. But the advantage WoW has there is that when you press a button for most classes there are a variety of abilities that activate instantly. My suggestion here is that it would be good to see a couple of key early on abilities for EQ2 changed to activate the same way, for example on a guardian kick and the basic swing would be ideal contenders. That would give the player a feeling of instant reponsiveness without actually changing the game since it would go like EQ2 : lag then hit then 1.0s cast time, hit then 1.0s cast time For certain abilities, or even just shaving a few hundred milliseconds off the 0.5s cast time might be enough to feel instant. EQ2 : lag then 0.2s then hit then 0.8s, 0.2s then hit then 0.8s. Its just a thought, it sounds like it could be an improvement although without altering the code myself I'm not sure if it would create an animation mismatch. Apologies for the wall of text, there are a lot of different ideas in there I wanted to get out here!
On the auto attack I don't think its an obvious element of the gameplay, an intuitive approach would be to cancel the auto attack until after the combat art has completed. The other options I see are to queue the auto attack up between combat arts (ie, with a 1.5s auto attack swing, if you are 0.5s into it when you start a combat art then there is 1s left of auto attack swing to go after the combat art has completed before your next auto attack hits). Or to have the auto attack just hit away no matter what the player does, then its just a straight flat dps. All three of the above options though simplify things and don't add to the gameplay for me since they don't involve the player beyond starting a fight, all they would achieve is to make bad players do the same dps as good players. So while I would like to see the auto attack timing need removed as a core gameplay mechanic I would only want to see it removed if a new game system was added in its place. Ideally one where you respond to the opponents moves more (for fighters I could suggest one where combat arts are grouped as either attack/defence, so the fighter could be trying to batter their opponents defences so that they can launch some devastating attacks, or maybe just trying to hang on shielding/parrying off a lot of attacks, making the combat more interactive would certainly make it more fun). As this would be a major change to the game so in the meantime some sort of swing timer would be good since I cannot tell from the animation, something like a ring around the threat meter with a red thing moving in a circle would be cool and unobtrusive.
Most of these requests in the last two posts are not UI related, but define some of the very vital core gameplay mechanics of Everquest II. Stick to UI related suggestions.
Adding a few thoughts to the discussion As a UI modder I have many issues with the current UI - I'm sure I will think of more, but here is what comes to mind immediately 1. Too Many Windows!! - there are way too many windows with only one function - seems like every time a new feature is added to the game someone says "just make a new window for it" - PLEASE stop doing that!!! - my entire Modding focus for my own UI is to eliminate/combine windows - if you made more dynamic data available so that "Combo windows" were more easily designed, I'd be a happy camper "any element in any window" is a Modders dream 2. Con system - there are currently 2 con systems available - I find this silly - pick one, or make a new one with the best elements of both. 3. Echo STRONGLY the request for Dynamic Data for Effects/Detrimental Effects. 4. 2 "types" of chat windows : regular - allows input & display & "display only" would be fantastic 5. Target windows - the auto sizing to allow effects icons is annoying for those that like their target windows at the bottom of the screen - keeping the window a static size without resorting to UI coding tricks would rock (or at least allow the icons to appear "above" the other info not just below it.) 6. Window Resizing - currently if you want a window to resize, its "pinned" to the upper right corner - I'd love the ability to have a window expand "right to left" or "bottom to top".
Rothgar wrote: Your obviously not serious, but this is one of the best things that should have happened in LU#13. Its probably too late now, but there should be no such thing as free damage, which is exactly what auto attack is.
Dragowulf@Nagafen wrote: Most? I'd say that most were directly about the UI, some were things that are effected by the UI, and the rest were gameplay elements that I thought were relevant to the UI discussion (autoattack has already been mentioned). The responsiveness thing is something I know a lot of friends have commented on, even Wolfsheadonline mentioned it, and in my friends case they talked about the interface and it took me a while to realise where that 'feel' came from, hence I wanted to mention it since it seemed relevant. (Also, you are picking a very large font there, is there any reason? My mind interprets text like that as shouting in a book )
Well, I for one do *not* want auto-attack timing to become a core part of gameplay. Adding a timing bar to the UI would risk making it central to gameplay for melee classes. Powers &8^]
Rothgar wrote: If you changed it without normalizing the damage from autoattack, yes, it would cause some balancing issues. However changing it and normalizing it would if anything make things more balanced. Removing auto-attacks totally is certainly viable as well, again you'll need to normalize CA damage to take that into affect, and you might need to address why you need mana to swing your arms. My point is, if you can't clearly communicate it to new players as its obtuse and difficult to grasp, maybe its not the best mechanic to be using in game for melee classes. Why should melee range and CA range be two different ranges? Isn't this further mudding of the waters for players entering the game? How does the UI or the game itself teach these players about this aspect of the mechanics? My understanding of the goal here was to deliver a game with the expansion that would attract and engage new players to the Everquest franchise, as such, I'd recommend you take some time seriously considering if the mechanics your having trouble building simple UI interfaces for are the right mechanics going forward. If its integral to reach your potential in game, then its important to visualize and communicate to the new player early on.
I'd like item links to go into the window marked "Always Chat Here" instead of whatever the origional chat window is (as this window can be closed and others made but then people can't link items because they go into a closed window)
I'm actually very happy with the present default UI, I don't see the need for any changes. It does everything I want, and most things are covered by options. Apart, that is, from the need for an option to get rid permanently of the welcome screen. Oh and of course I'd also like to see the new launcher ditched, it's so flaky. Failing that, at least give us an option to use the old launcher instead. I was forced to use it when installing onto a new machine, and I've had no end of problems with it. How many years has it been in beta? If it hasn't been fixed yet it never will be.
Mini-Map Radar: In PvP, the one thing that's always stuck out as an eye-sore is the tracking window. It clutters up the screen, and requires way too much interaction with it to get relevent information. Even in a PvE enviroment, it detracts from the immersion of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have it than nothing at all but, it can get frustrating at times. Now there is this one feature from the *Game that shall not be named else risk being ignored* UI that I thought was a great feature was the radar mini-map. Essentially, it combined the mini-map with the tracking ability so whichever type of target you wanted to track would show up on the mini map as little colored dots that moved in real time, the color determining the type of target it was. If you wanted to track a different type of target, you could switch to that search filter and the radar would update with the appropriate information. My idea is to combine the tracking window with the mini-map. Instead of a long list of targets that fit the filter, you'd just have the mini-map with the information being displayed as dots roaming around. The list of target names would be truncated to a small list that can be toggled on or off from the mini-map window, selecting their name would make the corrisponding dot being to glow or otherwise point in you the direction of the specific target (like a PoI). While a single click would be prefferable to accomplishing this easily, I'm sure people would like the option to deterimine the behavior of clicking on the target's name There would be 4 filters (3 on non-pvp servers): NPC/Player/PvP/ALL. You could only have one filter running at a time and the color of the dots would indicate the level color of the target being tracked. Directly above in the title bar would be the name of the filter being used and/or the current target's being tracked (example: If you searched for "rat", the title bar would display "Rat". If you were actively searching via PoI like directions to a specific tracked target, the title bar would display the exact name). Directly below the map portion of the mini-map would be a text box for entering in a specific search which could then be used to narrow the results on the mini-map and an orange arrow would point you in the direction of the nearest target to fit the criteria. You would need to get rid of the orange blob and just have the dot appear with an opposite color outline glowing around it (or whatever stands out the most). Something like this: (probably be better if it were a seperate mini-map and optional). You still wouldn't be able to tell the class of the target from this information and of course the usual limitations from stealth/invis would still prevent players/npc's from showing up on the map without the appropriate buffs to counter the effects. ****Editted for clarity and reconsiderations****
Haliken wrote: Yes that is exactly what I mean. I must use a custom UI just so I don't have things overlap or have huge gaps between them, I fail to see what purpose these extra borders are supposed to serve other than waste space. Thanks for posting a screenshot, it's a perfect example of what I was referring to.
Eileah wrote: I looked at removing the border space but the problem is that if you don't have the spinner visible you have no way to reposition the hotbar.
If it's essential to playing the game, there ought to be an indicator for it in default UI, and not dependent on 3rd party UIs. Resizable raid windows with click to cure. Auto attack timers. Auto use potion cures. Customizable hot bars that don't require 10 spots. Say, 4 spots here, 6 spots in another. If we need these things to be able to effectively do our jobs in game, then the game should provide it. Otherwise, curses, script triggers etc. shouldn't be in the game design.
Rothgar wrote: In profit UI he added a little box like 5 pixels wide/tall in one corner (like the one on bags) that allows you to grab it.
I've always thought click-to-cure should be in the default UI. I'd like to be able to see more effects in the maintained window, too. With all the procs/effects in maintained now, it's easy to hit the max number of effects, which can make it pretty much impossible to track your debuffs, DoTs, and wards/reactives without a UI mod. Along those same lines, I wish there was an easier way to order your maintained/effects windows, so that it's easier to find what you're looking for, but I can't really think of a good way to do that within the default UI.
Rothgar wrote: Hmm... what about maybe adding in something along the lines of holding some combination of keys to move a window or, alternately, making it so the window has a border unless the player chooses for it not to (like, in the window options listings)?
CoLD MeTaL wrote: Yep, I'm aware of that since I use Profit as well. It does solve the issue but I've never been a big fan of it.
