The advanced loot system and it's exploits

Hi all. I am a returning 1999-2003 player, and I have really enjoyed my time up until today. I'm sure you are all familiar with the advanced looting system. Which I have actually been a fan of up until I realized what it could do today.

Just a quick setup. After hours of being in groups and failing to take the Lguk /Sup camp, I finally got in one. We started from the zoneline of Lguk bedroom side and cleared all the way to /sup. We had died and re-cleared numerous times, but everyone had stuck with it. We finally found a pick with an open /sup camp. One guy was boxing a rogue/shammie. Very geared out. Then you had his friend who they were communicating to one another through Teamspeak. She/He was a druid. Again, druid very geared out. Then a mage, and myself. The best thing I have is a blackened alloy longsword. Everything else is bronze/banded.

Now to get to the issue. Ghoul Supplier spawns. It dies. First drop and it's the thick banded belt (AC 8, +15 str). Now...the group leader/master looter and the druid are in the same guild and on TS. NBG had been agreed upon, and let me say that as a dps melee type, I certainly would not have been selling the belt and probably never would have. By far the best item i'd seen for my class thus far. Especially for the slot. And, to my shock and horror the item was given to the druid.

Firstly, I don't understand why this kind of thing can even happen. I hate to mention the other game, but you can NOT roll on an item if you can't use it. I understand a druid could use the belt for...maybe carrying extra items and thats about it. IMHO A druid shouldn't be allowed to even roll need on the item, only greed. Now, with that being said I just discovered today that as a master looter you can automatically place an item in someone's inventory! How in the world is this okay? Why would that even be an option? I see very very VERY few circumstances that option would be viable. It should be straight up Need/Greed and you can only greed unless you can use it, and it's an upgrade. I feel like this system needs some serious work.

Of course, I guess that DBG would never even consider fixing loot seeing as how you have magebot armies running around camping an entire zone which was happening in Lguk, and nobody wants to do anything about it..pretty ridiculous. I spent allll day on /sup, dodging magebots and picking over and over all for literally nothing. I'm quite disappointed. I feel like I've wasted an entire day, and this is not okay behavior. If your not boxing, and not in a guild that runs your level groups all the time, your forced to pug with this kind of stuff going on. I really don't care about it but the leader/masterlooter would auto every bit of fine steel in his inventory. I don't think that is acceptable either. I read the other day that these mage armies are taking over whole zones, selling no trade drops for outrageous prices, and of course making money on all the regular drops. So if i'm losing to magebots, and now groups abusing the advloot system what is the point on even progressing in the game? I get up high enough and i'll be laughed at for having terrible gear. I see level 1's with better gear constantly...no doubt their bot army alts. I hate to say it but I don't see any purpose in continuing to play. I have no desire to start boxing, and if my time is going to be wasted there is no point. The game is about progressing, in levels and gear. These shinanigans make it impossible. Levels 1-30 were fun. Thats about it.

This is just my 2 cents, and I'd love to hear what other people, especially some druids think about having an item handed to you like that over a melee thats using a regular banded belt.

no offence.. that happened a lot before Adv loot system.. people will remain dicks no mather what.. you had a bad luck with your group

Ninja looting has always been a part of the game (not to say that it's something I accept), and with or without the ADVLoot system, the druid could have theoretically looted the belt. I don't know what the current EULA has in regards to ninjalooting in a group where NBG has already been decided. I just know that I will always discuss loot rules before xp'ing, and I try to only let people that I trust ML.
I forgot to add, that I guess the one thing I'd change, is I don't know why classes who cannot use an item at all, can still roll need on that item. So now if I am ML/GL for a group thats not guildies, I will usually just ask the needers to /rando 100, and assign the loot to the winner myself.

Thanks for the quick response, iirc your right, back in the old days you just right click the corpse and loot it and then you would do /random 0 100 and assign the loot. It's been a long time so I did forget about that, but I still feel advloot needs some serious work. There should not be any option to place an item in someones inventory. at all. Friends can team up on the loot like that and really make someones day bad, not just mine. We are all potential victims. Thanks all.

This is fundamentally why I think NBG is a pointless concept for EQ given how the game works. It is honestly, better for the entire group (regardless of class or use) needs the item. Granted yes, we can argue, well the druid could wear this but it really is a paladin item, but in all honesty... that druid just spent 3-4 hours to gear you up if that was the case.

In games like WoW, where many players have come from, the NBG concept works entirely different. This is because in the gamut of raiding, dungeoning, etc in WoW, you will see items drop for relatively all classes at some point (Barring some poor luck). In games like that, it is no longer, me spending hours on end (fully knowing that I won't ever be rewarded for it), but instead me fighting as part of the group and hey, if I get lucky, something nice will drop for me.

So all in all, it depends on what the group decides. The group chose NBG, and someone made a of themselves to violate the rules of the group (I've actually seen someone get ninja looted from his own guildmate... messed up...). To prevent issues like that, and to allow adequate (fair) return on the investment of time and resources, all characters should be rolling on the gear. If you want the item that dropped, either continue and hope to get a drop for yourself, or potentially you can buy it at a discount from the one who won.

In either case, the loot distribution is more fair and balanced... (save for those rare situations where someone wins every roll)

Need before greed is only a discussion for no-drop items. Every single thing is needed.

If a wizard and a warrior are in a group and a swordworth 1000pp and a helmet worth 1000pp drop after several hours of hunting together, NBGassumes the warrior gets the items and the wizard gets nothing (/shrug RNG).

WRONG

The wiz gets one of those things which are worth texact same amount to him as to the warrior ......1000pp

Then the wizard can sell it and buy a 1000pp robe or whatever.

Iwish it was mandatory that every person had to take a kindergartner's introduction to macro economics and the value of material wealth study before spouting off about NBG.

There is no such thing. There never was. Everyone said it but it wasn't real and it was based on a flawed concept of fairness which was, in fact, the most unfair system.

Again, this only applies to tradeable items.

Just my 2 cents here, sometimes I 2box named camp alone so I can get said items, I don't need any help but when I see someone lfg, or someone pops
Up and asks if I have room I'll always invite them, that being said I'm generally straight forward about letting them know what I'm after and they have little to no chance at said items am after, could be like that, you did say they were geared so maybe they invited you for xp and failed to mention the loot

Who knows

I always agree with that guy above me, I was invited to a lord group in Guk and when I got there they said NBG after inspecting the ranger warrior and bard I came to the conclusion that it will take 2-6 ssoy for me to get one for my warrior I quit for the Mage after tanking various names for KSers ( I mean dps racers)....lol little to say in ever did stay long

this isnt an advanced loot issue, its a Dbaggery issue.

it sounds like the group had agreed to NBG before hand. if thats the case, backing out on it is just a Dbag move.

I guess you'll meet people that feel this is inaccurate. If I'm in a group of casters, and I'm a tank, and a Robe drops that someones going to wear, i would NEVER NEED IT. How hard is that to comprehend? Who cares if its worth money. I don't get this attitude.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the advanced loot at all. Zip, zero, nada. It has everything to do with the people who you grouped with. There was no exploit here, there was no in-game issue. It was 100% the people and nothing but the people. Let's at least place the blame where it belongs and not try to blame the system because someone in game was a jerk.

Get into a guild, and group with your guild. Get to know people. Strangers will do this.

This thread isn't for those trying to bring up their views on greed being the only way to go.

But as folks said, this happened because your group looter was not a good person.

That said, there are many valid reasons why that option to give to someone is there so it should remain. Unfortunately you just ended up in a group with a dishonest person.

While I whole-heartedly agree with you, NBG was agreed to and the item was GIVEN to the druid by the master looter to sell, no doubt, because she had better.I don't understand why that option to "Place such and such item in someone's inventory" is an option in the first place. It gives people even more opportunities to be a dbag. Do we really need to make it easier for folks to do this crap? It's like setting down an opened candy bar down in a room full of children. Someone is going to get it, most likely by pushing and shoving and bullying and the rest will be s.o.l. until someone sets another candy bar down, at which the same EXACT thing is probably going to happen (speaking to statistics here and personal experience). I feel like i'm wasting my time even going after it, and by extension playing in the first place. Thats all. If I quit, I quit and thats my problem not any of yours, but I think it's a sad thing to have person after person leave this fantastic game for the same reason. It should be fixed. Bottom line, boxing 6+ people is an issue in the game. These camps are hardly EVER open, and when they are all it takes is one A-hole 50 mage or even 6 level 30 mages coming in at once and winning the dps race. I can't win for losing you see? Get a group, spend 8 hours (yes, spent 8 finally getting the camp) to have that happen. And afterwards, we of course lose the camp, they got what they came for. Time to origin/gate out. Screw everyone else. Thats the mentality I see more and more. But instead of being able to get another group together you get a mage come in and take over. "Hey this is my camp now, you can waste your time trying to get it back I don't care, regardless it's mine <insert evil laugh here>". Whats the point ya know? Sure I can get into a guild and group with them, assuming they aren't all 50 in the next week, but what does a group have against all these DPS machines? I appreciate everyone's input here though. I think i've made a decision on how to handle these issues. Much thanks all!

Hmmm

As others have rightly stated, this is nothing to do with the advanced looting system that is in place. This is to do with the definition of "need" being used by the group. Rather sad that you have to check the definition of "need" after need before greed has been agreed...The best way to get round the problem is to only group with friends / guildies.

You are in the very small minority with this view.

My groups are always NBG, always. If you are going wear/use it (use tradeskill items) then go ahead and need. If you are just going to sell it, then you get to greed on it.

If the example you gave, yes, the Warrior should get the sword and helmut, giving him those upgrades helps him tank for you better. Really no different than that SMR going to you instead of the Warrior.

Prior to this system whoever clicked fastest got the loot if they so chose. So really this isn't any worse. This way you only have to trust 1 person (group lead) vs the whole group.

As this person said.

If the warrior can use the stuff and its an upgrade...nothing goes to the mage. It goes to the warrior. In this case there should be coordination and understanding with the group. "Okay, warrior, you got 2 items which are huge upgrades so we are going to move on to a different camp so the rest of us can get some gear"...perfectly acceptable. Whats not acceptable is saying well since the warrior got 1 upgrade the other (even tho its an upgrade) goes to someone else for plat. Thats ubsurd. The more we keep supplying these bots with gear to sell the more they buy krono and the more they take this game over. If we would all get the items we need in a FAIR manner, we wouldn't have to pay these outrageous prices for the otherwise easily obtainable items, and then the mage bots would go away because they wouldnt' have krono from all their heavily camped items. Simple. I'd love to walk into Lguk, take a camp without being run out by a mage or ninja'd by somebody. But its just not happening. This is turning into a vicious cycle and mark my words, those of you who don't have a clue whats going on or don't care, soon you will.

I am pretty sure no pick up group in the history of EQ has ever said "Hey, warrior, you got to upgrades so let's move somewhere else." Far, far more likely the warrior would be saying, "Hey, I got what I wanted, thanks for the group guys, I gotta run."

The system isn't the problem, the players are. Group with more ethical players. I love the assign feature, it's great in guild groups.

So if casters / clerics make up most of the group at frenzie then the meele take all the FBSS and brigan tunics to sell, so the next time they're exping at frenzie they can need again.

Those dirty casters and clerics have no right to expect ( the only possible good loot drops ) from their camp for the time they spent camping it.

Need before greed indeed....

When everything decent is worth krono+ theres no such thing as NBG,its upto you to make friends/& join guild & only grp with them to avoid this.