someone (i can't remember who, and i can't find the thread) said something recently about using the faster generic 2h compared to the knight specific 2h, thinking that the generic was doing a bit more damage. just to test and confirm i ran some parses using COTF raid T2 weapons. identical buffs for both tests (enc haste rk2, call of gloomhaze rk3, TDS unity rk3, shroud and vizat rk3, AM3 for overhaste - 5091 atk, 216% haste, 308 hstr for the piercer, 315 hstr for the 2hs. both tests were about 8k in melee dps and 1700 via procs (shroud, vizat, totc, weapon procs) brilliant flame edged cleaver: Combat Dummy Ena II on 3/9/2015 in 27163sec Total --- DMG: 261164287 (99.99%) @ 9615 dps (9615 sdps) Royal Executioner's Ornamental Bastardsword: Combat Dummy Ena II on 3/9/2015 in 26483sec Total --- DMG: 256211235 (99.99%) @ 9675 dps (9675 sdps)
flat damage from Bloodthirsty Blade. I found very similar results with the Arx 2handers on my paladin, enough that i was pretty pissed that i wasted the effort of getting the knight ratio 2hander
Did you do any tests with casting life taps and see if you lost any rounds? side question, what would people think is better if you don't lose any rounds to casting? I could see lower delay for HHE, but higher dmg for % effects? for SK % effects are going to be on us more often than HHE.
I was curious about the underlined: both weapons are listed as slashing with the difference in HStr of 6 instead of 7, possible typo?
bit of fudging on my part actually. I don't have a t2 2h so was actually the t1 with a 13 dmg aug in it, making the same base ratio. I put no aug in the generic 2h to keep it even, so only diff was a few hstr. sojero: no
I would be interested to see what would be the rate with casting, also if you have a 16 dmg aug in the 30 delay it does more than the 37 delay, ratio wise, so cannot really count that out, but still not enough to really pull them apart. As to what i was saying before, for a pally that has HHE, I would think the 30 delay would be much better. I will try and get a burning steel broadblade next time one drops, they are going cheap for us, and compare it to the lance of the bloodfiend and see how that goes. Also, the person who originally was talking about it was Xan over on evilgamer.
oh, right! I knew there was a reason the entire notion seemed incredibly stupid and easily disproved... that would be it.
Also, he didn't say it was better, he just said that during casting he wasnt losing but around 600 dps and the melee was around the same, which is what peaked my curiosity. Also, you just helped prove him right that the dps is the same, now I wonder what it does when all things are combined together. We wouldn't lose any dps to dots as they are instant, but life taps take 1 second to cast, and thus the reason I thought we got 37 delay weapons, but if that has changed.....
No lower delay would be terrible during VR. It was about 4k less dps (the 30) than the 37 comparing 2 overnight parses. The only thing that makes them close non burn is 1100 or 1200 flat damage from Valiant/Bloodthirsty blade. Under VOD/Carmine I BELIEVE (ie: I did not test this) SK would see the knight ratio 2 hander pull ahead as well. Factor in any kind of ADPS and the flat damage loses its luster.
I was under the same impression Raven about the vod/carmine. I was wondering about VR because I had read on a different post, about BER that the 30 delay was way better than 35 even at same ratio because of the HHE they have, so was wondering if it was true for pal, glad to hear that it is not.
And yet you failed again... Typical - you looks facts straight in the face and deny them (even ones you just gathered yourself). As I posted on EGN and as what you have found but seem to fail to understand is that a 283/30 weapon was better than the Lance of the Bloodfiend (370/37); seeing that you parsed the 2nd best known ratio knight weapon in the game (383/37) and compared it to a 283/30 weapon, you've backed my findings. Easily proven and for most, easily understood, 'special' cases notwithstanding... For casting, I've parsed with both and obviously with instant cast DoTs, there was no effect. If I switched those out for lifetaps under Unholy Aura (1st spire used on both runs), the taps were a wash compared to DoTs (all rank 1s and TDS group foci at the time). I did see a loss of ~600 melee dps at most on the 283/30 weapon with taps. As for burns, it was still in favor of the 283/30 weapon and all of it can be contributed to the extra rounds. In the GGH in 149 seconds, I saw 361 swings. With the Lance, in 158 seconds (yes, 9 seconds longer...), I saw 283 swings. With 60 more hits using the faster weapon, the extra 1264 damage (on average) from the Lance just couldn't compare.
If I remember correctly, it used to be that knight 2h weapons had a longer delay but a better ratio. Now it seems that the ratio is the same which is why the faster weapon is winning out. Not sure why the change in direction.
The longer delay was always because of casting, so that you could get a 1 - 2 second cast off in between rounds, now with many spells in pal being .5 cast, and sk being 1 second, we would need to see again. The only problem I can see is, just from basic math you would think on a burn the hhe, haste, and higher damage % would bring the higher dmg weapon ahead. I guess you would have to look at what you do more often, solo, group, or raid to see what works best for you.
So there's now a (sorta, but not really) legit reason to loot that awesome looking generic 2hs scythe from arx? Sounds good to me, hastaduria looks awful!
I think they really need to look at the knight 2handers and make the ratio better. Probably doesn't need a huge tweak, but certainly it seems some would be called for to give the historical benefit back. I feel the higher delay could still be left to differentiate and would give it a side benefit of somewhat less riposte and dmg shield effects.
When I get a chance ill try and parse the group weapons since the burning steel wont drop for me lol Flame Etched Halberd + 16 dmg aug = 221/30 - 7.367 ratio Sol Honorblade + 16 dmg aug = 303/37 8.19 ratio Lance of the bloodfiend + 16 dmg aug = 386/37 -10.43 Burning Steel Broadblade + 16 dmg aug = 289/30 - 9.63 I will try to do it under burn conditions, and with casting to see what a real difference is. I will also repeat Tearsin's parse to make sure that the group ones I am comparing are close to the same as what he found with the raid weaps so we don't have outliers. I choose the group ones as I can buy both easily, if anyone knows easy to get group ones that are closer, ie the ones i picked are are t1 30 delay and t2 knight, I will be glad to switch.
If it is something they wish to change, I'd almost rather it happen via an AA that scales it automatically. If Tearsin's parses are accurate, they basically show the need for ~100 more damage to compensate for the extra 7 delay - what happens when that 30 delay ratio is improved next expansion? Or the next? It's a divergent path that I could see devs shaking their head at later on down the line.
The flat damage from BB and the pally equivalent was maybe not the best way to go. Look at what has happened to rangers and their disc, except for us its all the time we use a 2h weap. The problem is, how do you add to a higher delay weapon without making the lower delay that much better? without taking us off the lower delay weapons or tweaking the weapons?
