Is The Warrior Class Dead?

mage pet r still killin warrior! warror cannot compete with pets
warriors cannot summon themselfs with 140k hp

Its depends on a lot of things. However, its not as simple as saying what you did though.

Yeah, this new 36% knight disc pretty much takes 2/3+ of the scant reason anyone had left to play a warrior and nullifies it. Looks like it's time to swap out my main character (11 yr old raiding war) for sk.

I never minded the minor bit I lost as a paladin to a warrior for the heavy hitters. (raid or group)

What always makes me /sad is when a raid geared warrior wants me to tank, not so he can relax while grouping, but that a knights abilities are that much better in group.

Something should be given to warriors, to make them more desirable in the group game.

Seems like there has been quite a lot of "giving" this or that out lately via new aa's to the tanks. How about taking a few things away until group/raid desirability more or less evens out amongst the classes?

I guess you dont understand the part where the disc gets SKs killed on stuff that requires a defensive disc (as been mentioned in this thread and others) - Not to mention, SKs I know use it as a DPS disc and not a tank disc.

Kelethane, I'll tell you what I have observed, and read from others.

You could be correct regarding sk, but I'll tell you what I do understand from observation (and read others saying) Kelethane. Knights can tank RoF raid bosses - I've seen it. It's not just me either - other posters here are saying that they are seeking knights to tank RoF bosses now, and not warriors. Maybe they aren't using this particular disc, maybe they are - I haven't asked them myself.

Others in this Tank forum are now saying they are seeking knights for primary raid tanks, and not warriors because knights can do the end game tanking and offer a lot more to a raid team. If the SK classes find that they can live better without using this disc when tanking, that suggests to me that for at least 2 minutes they can "effectively do better than" mitigate 36% of damage for 2 minutes. This makes my case even clearer.

Either way, this disc really does offer 36% mitigation to the knight classes for 2 minutes, and since the war gets 45% for 3 minutes (with ZERO self heals mind you), you really have to ask yourself, for all the gaming hours most people put in, is it personally worth playing a warrior for that extra 1 minute raid cushion a few times a week? Even if you do think so - you aren't going to get invited to some raid teams, because they don't think so - per the posts on this forum. Ouch...

We previously had these abilities

Grelleth's Carapace Rk. III which is 20% mitigation up to about 460k

and

Bonebrood Mantle Rk. III which is 35% mitigation up to 979k

Both of these we could use with Visage of Death to increase our melee damage output and our 2.0 to also heal us for 85% of the damage we were capable of putting out.

Now we have these two abilities and

Unholy Guardian Discipline Rk. III which will mitigate up to 36% for two minutes while decreasing our damage output by 60% which effectively neuters our self healing abilities, especially our 2.0 which is what the class is designed around. Much like Paladin heals.

Yeah well given that warriors have zero self heals when they disc, you're not really saying much in the overall context of this forum thread Sinestra.

Warriors are a soloing joke compared to knights.

Warriors are a group joke compared to knights.

The line between a warrior and knight tank is getting mighty thin, and this 36% mitigation disc (coupled with even gimped knight self heals) blurs the line even further.

What is happening with war is the biggest issue with class balancing. I am sorry but sk and pallies should not be as good at tanking as a war. While they should be able to tank current content it should be more work for them not less. A hybrid should not be as good as their parent classes at the parent classes main role. Enchanters are in the same boat as most of what made them needed in groups/raids has been farmed out. But because soe has to gear the game towards their main customer base(causal players) they need to make it so you can change out any tank/healer/cc/dps class for another and not have that much difference in the group so people don't got wait.

Strongbus hit it on the head, SOE has now made it to where classes can be switched out and that makes old school players fearful. OMG they wont want me, BS, you still are useful, and now others are useful too. My guild still uses WAR primarily on raid bosses as we have 3-5 wars all the time, and sk is add tank and pal is ramp tank mainly because we are not fully geared to current content, therefore wars still have a huge advantage. Even in higher guilds, no one is throwing out the wars, and new wars can still get invites if they can play their class.

As for the group game, if you have 2 tanks in the group who cares if the war isn't the main tank, oh wow you actually get to dps for once. Feel lucky that you get to branch out. There is no sense in calling the class dead because you don't have the common sense to realize that making classes interchangeable doesn't mean that the player is worthless. People still invite to groups/raid based on the player, and his/her skill level when it comes to tanks. Just means you have to actually play your class.

I'm quite sure you entirely misunderstood Strongbus. As he stated, the problem is they made tanks interchangeable only on one level "Big Boss Tanking." They failed to address the warriors in the process, as our last vestige of usefulness above knights arguable was big boss tanking, and now it has been farmed out. However, as many pointed out in beta this was gone even before ROF; it is merely universally undeniable now because even blow average knights will be able to attain it.

Habit... not because it is best... Gear is irrelevant to this debate...

We won't be booting good players. We may go the route of encouraged main changes. We ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT BE RECRUITING WARRIORS. This will go for many top guilds now, unless there is a sudden shortage of knights (there is not). We turn away warrior recruits all the time, and have plenty of knights to choose from.

We are not interchangeable that is the problem. However, knights are now interchangeable in our only arguably advantaged role. We are vastly inferior in your historic roles, kiting, off tanking, range agro, solo, group, etc...

The point is when people are playing their class at absolutely peak performance (something you have proven time and again your not familiar with) then there is a huge disparity. I should also add, given a few months even average players will start to see this huge gap.

Since these posts are all about opinion, we are each just showing our opinions in the level that we play at, Lanthor you most likely play at the top end, while I play at the mid tier. My opinion is that in group game war/pally/sk are all interchangeable. There is nothing a war cannot tank, might not be as effective, in some peoples eyes, but that doesn't mean that it cannot be done.

For the majority of EQ players, gear is a consideration, any raiding not maxed from the last expansion has to use wars to fill the gap and use the little bit extra mitigation that they have to win events until the knights can catch up.

Not recruiting wars is an option, mainly of elitists, but still just an option, still doesn't change the fact that wars can still do the job without problem.

Also trying to attack someone that you don't know and have never played with by saying that they don't know how to play their class just belittles you, and does not effect me in any way.

I was only giving actual numbers and information to keep the discussion grounded. Soloing is not something relevant to the discussion at all. The new ability does nothing compared to the drama being given to it. It was something we could do previously up to a certain damage cap/timeframe. Now we got a 1% increase that has only a time limit rather than a damage cap and it neuters our self healing. And neutering our self healing is a big deal.

the deal is yes we warriors can still tank the content your right and druids can still heal the main tank is it the recepie for the most sucess no. you still seem to live in some other word and cant see how things work in raid u put the best fit for the role to preform it period that will grant you the best sucess thats pretty simple right . and as it stands right now only reason warriors are still tanking the big bosses is guilds dont have enough knights to covcer adds AND main tank and as warriors are way worse as add control then knights the winning concept atm is where do we use warrior most effichently in the raid on the main boss as thats the only role we fill sucessfully. keep in mind sucessfully dosent mean its the best suit its just we arent fitted to fill any other role

so we are main tanking not cuz we are the best at it its cuz we suck at everything els

The problem is your view is from a top raiding guild. The majority of EQ does not work that way. Most mid tier guilds dont get the "best" all the time. I am saying you need to fight for benefits to your class without bringing up bs, that the devs know is bs, and wont help you at all. They are not listening to the top, they are listening to the masses. Warrior class is not dead, same as a few expansions ago paladins were not dead, they sucked for the most part to play, but they worked with the devs got some great ideas, non of which were, o geez war can do this or sk can do this, they found stuff that worked for them, and got it.

Every Knight in the game wouldnt care if a Warrior takes damage better than Knights while raid tanking. We all dont care if your defensive discs last twice as long as Knights. We all understand that is your job. Knights dont want your raid main tanking roles. Never have. What you are seeing now is a direct result of the devs wanting parity and interchangeability within the raid game. Knights didnt ask for this 3rd disc, it was the devs idea. So if any Warrior feels the need to place blame, its squarely on the devs for this, not the Knights. Since they are the ones that gave Knights an ability that we didnt even ask for. Besides all of that, its an ability that is completely useless for Shadowknights. Its a DPS disc for us, not a defensive disc. Any SK that uses this new 3rd defensive disc will get killed vs a mob that requires a defensive disc to survive.

And some of you Warriors whining over the raid game: I get the feeling that you want some kind of lazy IWIN button. Perhaps you should take a long hard look at your Priest core and weed the bad out and get some Clerics that can actually heal a modern day Warrior on a raid. My guild doesnt have issues at all keeping Warriors alive on raids these days. We dont put SKs or Paladins in the main boss tanking order. If your guild does, then that means you are trying to compensate for a bad Cleric core and looking for excuses. Either that, or you are just one of those Warriors that click Final Stand and go AFK for 10 minutes and then come back and wonder why your dead. There is more to playing a Warrior than just simply clicking Flash and following it with Final Stand.

This thread title needs to be changed to "Are all of the good Warriors dead?"

I'm not sure what discussion you're having, but this thread is called "is the warrior class dead". Soloability is one of, if not THE top motivator for class popularity. I can think of nothing more relevant.

The game is not now nor has it ever been balanced around soloing. The devs have even said this. Raid leaders and group members don't choose their main tank based on how well you solo. Constantly bringing up soloing when it comes to balancing tanks actually just hurts the discussion. So I don't know what discussion you're having.

I was not the originator of this thought, regardless, soloing is a part of Tank life for some in EQ and the warrior is the lamest at it. Keep in mind I mentioned grouping and raiding as well in the original post - soloing is simply a subset of my argument.