Charm is too strong

Mnt pooka with full mage toys.

It's all about that PoWater hammerhead. Most ain't ready for that kind of power though.

pet doesn't summon walks slow.

Real mans pet. Need like 500 AA and top end raid gear and a good alert Cleric for them boys. Still a lot of risk.

There is a huge risk vrs reward they already changed the charm once. If the only thing some of you play is 1 expansion or 2 and expect us to just roll over and let you nerf another class you got another story coming. We been through 20 yrs of nerfs enough is enough.

I meant for DPS wise those pooka's put out a lot of damage.
I need to get my archery up so I think I will test out this hammerhead guy

Well I hit max level the day after all the server first rushers and didn’t have an ench for 99.9% of my leveling. So maybe I have no clue about of much sleep those people decided to get versus the people I was grouping with. But it certainly wasn’t going to make or break anyone.

But hey if people want to believe you need optimal group makeup for limited amount of mobs in overcrowded zones. More power to them. Doesn’t matter if a frog dies in 5 seconds or 20 seconds when there are only 10 frogs on a 20 minute respawn.

It most certainly does when dps racing is king and you have two groups to either side of you competing to pull and kill your 10 frogs.

lol dps racing and when 50 comes around you will be like OK time to go play something else, i still have 3 months to go.

Which for the most part...wait for the shock. Most people actually respect camps.

I know, the forums won’t believe it. Maybe after the first couple waves of people level all hell breaks lose, but the leveling process people describe on here and what I have experienced on TLPs multiple times does not line up. When there are multiple picks of the zones...most people are not actually a holes.

How so? After PoP, charming slows down considerably.

I'm still waiting to hear why you care.

Uh... No. I played an enchanter on at least 2 TLPs, maybe 3 (I forget). There is very little risk in charming today vs. the old days. Very little. To be clear, I'm in the camp that thinks charm should be left alone. The argument that it's high risk for high reward, though, isn't valid in today's EQ, IMO.

I'm in the same boat. I've played enchanters on several recent TLP's, usually an alt with poor gear, and I always charm. I think it is very powerful and low risk, and I don't think they should change it.

I think all the folks arguing that it isn't very powerful are being disingenuous, they just don't want to see it nerfed so they downplay how good it is.

As an enchanter I'd say it needs to be toned down, most TLP's let's face it last until POP and that most people encounter this ability during those times.

I'd prefer it be toned down with a slow component that would still make it useful, just not ridiculous.
Either way works but anyone saying it's rivaled by some risk is just...

And every TLP plays out the same way too. Where after the initial wave of people who basically don't sleep on the way to racing to get their "first to 50!" trophy, the next year or so sees 90% of the good to great group exp'ing going on within the server gravitate to orbiting completely around the cornerstone of having a charmed pet carrying the heavy load.

My last TLP experience I was the one that rolled the enchanter (first time ever playing one) among the group of my own small hardcore playtime group of friends. For the same unfiltered reasons I'm strongly guessing you and a few other of the more vocal people here are against any re-balancing change roll one every single time too. Any "great" exp group is going to need one, so I wanted to directly have what is, by far, the single most unbalanced and OP aspect in the everyday game play that goes on. I wanted my reserved spot with no other possible class fill in replacement-in any exp group I choose. I wanted to be the guy out there exploiting that charm OP'ness of having an absurdly high hp tank/dps controlled pet killing things I otherwise would typically have to involve (and of course share the experience/loot with) a bunch more and/or other boxed toons to kill. Of course I also wanted to be the guy with the unique ability to go lock down one of the obvious premium item camps early on everybody ideally wants to do without having to sweat having any outside tank or dps help, so I could sit there for 18 hours a day with a boxed healer and stock up on that easy early krono farming.

I did all those things too. It's also funny you mention and attempt to use the chardok king/queen too as your example of the risk vs reward (which in itself really just serves to stress the OP aspect for the most part btw), because other then one time I burnt a pizza and then sat in the kitchen for too long raging out about it, it's literally the only time I remember dying classic - vel with the direct reason being a broken charm (sure there had to have been 1 or 2 random times though). Most of that being with my buddy's boxed healer until I went on to level one of my own, and including every pug without the box I every joined. The people trying to paint some risk factor being involved in that equation that would somehow present even the slightest possibility where the enchanter might choose to *not* charm because the payoff along the way won't be worth it....I mean cmon lol. That is complete and utter nonsense imo.

I actually popped into this thread curious to see if this had gotten any attention with all the re-balancing that has been since the last time I heavily played, and kinda shocked it still hasn't tbh. Especially since there is no other as obvious in need of class mechanic re-balancing that could be done that would double as having as much a generally positive across-the-board and universal leveling-the-field impact on the everyday/non-raid gameplay and alternative class inclusion/setup viability elsewhere in the event the deck wasn't so stacked in favor of going the charmed pet cornerstone route. Not that the min /max mentality involved wouldn't in many cases just switch to something else of course, but at least the actual discrepancy difference in that choice wouldn't be as extreme and detrimental to those not surrendering to that mindset because it otherwise just makes too much logical sense to do so.

My proposed fix attempt to tune down the utter op'ness would be a simple one, and basically in the same mold as raid mobs were fixed from being too easy. Add a mark buff to any charmed pet that adds a 50% slow/50% threat gen reduction, and one that falls off on breaks. With the goal of making them more of a situational meat shield option for the soloing enchanter as opposed to god mode solo/group replacement ability it is now.

Minus the super power gamer types who basically only play the class for the super OP farming aspect to begin with, or the lone wolves who just want the ability to efficiently grind group content without the shackle needing that actual group effort, my guess is lots of people would still play enchanter class too. With them still maintaining their priority spot in the grouping game as well. Probably even on the same exact level at that since they still have the mana regen everybody ideally wants in a good extended camp grind, and since subtracting the super powered tank/dps aspect out of the equation essentially just ups the need and/or potential value of their superior CC ability.

All of the TLP thus far have gone beyond PoP, why does this myth keep getting repeated like it's some cast iron fact when it clearly is not?

YOU might lose interest by then , a good number of others may also lose interest by then, but "after PoP" is not the reason players leave the server/game in droves, fact is that the TLP servers, just like most of the Live ones did, picks up some or a lot of players on launch / sometimes grows a bit after launch, forms guilds & then loses a few guild with EVERY expansion, they don't all just quit after PoP at all.
Now if you were to say "after PoP is the point at which many players notice there has been a decline in server population" you may have a valid point.

Ragefire saw the biggest drop when Phinigel Launched due to the AoC feature being a "Killer App" but even that server still has a few guilds raiding now into Secrets of Faydwer.

When classic was current content yes Enchanter charm was very risky to solo with, that was likely the main reason it was so strong vs the summoned pet being so weak, having a group really reduced that risk in era.

Later changes to the game over its 21 year existence lowered that risk further, the spell itself is as strong today as it was on inception but less buggy.

That ability was just as the original designers intended, balance be damned. That's why I like it the way it is.
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I would rather the melee - particularly monks, were not so strong in classic on TLP as they are now so that the band-aid MoTM fix wasn't needed and so the other melee weren't so completely overshadowed by Monks for 90+ levels. The change to remove focus effects until Luclin unlocks was a good move in the right direction, doing something about melee is the next step towards allowing the removal of MoTM.

If all you truly want is balance & that is your over-riding concern then really think about all the balance, do you want to balance every class in every era? If don't really want balance though you just want to hit one class - nobody really expands on charm for Mage, Necro, Druid & Shaman but those are powerful too.

So decide if you really want a balanced EQ or you just want one class nerfed out of jealousy, if you want balanced, then widen your scope of changes to be called for to improve the wider picture or you are nothing but a hypocrite.

If you want to just nerf Enchanters out of jealousy then at least have the guts to straight up admit that and stop hiding behind your obfuscations.

For all of those that want charm nerfed or think it's 2 OP can you answer me a couple of questions

1) Why is it every raid guild starts with 12 enchanter mains in Classic but ends up with 2 mains by the end of PoP. If Enchanters are so OP why is it that everyone quits the class?

2) What does "nerfing charm" ultimately accomplish that positively affects the game? Do you really want slower XP for everyone?

1) LOL CHARM IS OP as a mechanic. Enchanters as a class are a really strong class for group play even without charm. Sure they fall off for raiding, but there's a lot of bad classes for raiding, and enchanters are necessary for some encounters.

2) Give me a break. Yea exp will be slower when a charm pet can't carry a group. But I'd rather play in a traditional group with a tank, a healer and a dps. Not have a charm pet fill 2 of those roles and just carry everyone. That's just bad game play. It was "fixed" after PoP for a reason. It was out on control and you know it.

This is such a baseless argument, you are not forced to have an Enchanter in your group, you choose to have one or not, if you would rather not have an Enchanter don't have one in group or ask the Enchanter not to use Charm. You have something called "free will" try using it.

don't care either way but lol.. you'd be surprised how many bad enchanters there are. keep your pet tash'd people, it will hold longer. one guy even MR buffed his "to stop ghoul root." and please rebuff KEI before you leave the group sheesh

I bet, if you polled people the pro-nerf crowd will be predominantly Aradune, and the status quo crowd will be Rizlona.