8/20 Faceless Insanity Breaks Rotation

That was me noob. Just wanted to clarify, reading is hard. Carry on.

I THOUGHT YOU WERE DONE POSTING! HA!

Faceless is the most insecure and petty guild I've seen in 16 years of Everquest.

When I transfered over I receieved tells from some old friends asking how I could pick MM.

Last nights shenanigans only act as confirmation I made the correct choice and which guild has the more mature leadership in place.

That was the most bush league thing I've ever seen.

Do as I say not as I do? Darth and the officers know full well what the meaning and spirit of that clause was. There were more than just one name on that list. Only one name was send a tell and no other efforts were made.
http://imgur.com/QAwe1kJ

You fools are STILL using the word "competition"
Is sliding down a slide competition in your world?
Ha ha I slid faster than you neener neener...
Sharing IS CARING! Facelss, why not grow up and share?
The only thing Faceless CARES about is denying non faceless members content.
Try following YOUR rules next time...you know, the ones you voted on?

Firstly, I'm not acknowledging that no mediation was in place before GM intervention. I'm just pointing out a simple, and valid truth to your entire argument.

Secondly, even if your point were true, which I HIGHLY doubt that it is, your claim to FI breaking the rotation is about as baseless and pointless as people screaming the world is still flat.

Now, I don't post on these forums, or honestly read them the majority of the time for obvious reasons, but please take a moment to learn what words mean:

Taken directly from the rotation AND to quote you again:

"Guilds are expected and encouraged to use a neutral guild to mediate disputes before resorting to guide or GM intervention."


ex·pect
ikˈspekt/
verb
past tense: expected; past participle: expected

1. regard (something) as likely to happen.
   "we expect the best"
   synonyms: anticipate, await, look for, hope for, look forward to; More
   
   
   • regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
     "they were not expecting him to continue"
     synonyms: suppose, presume, think, believe, imagine, assume, surmise; More
     
   • believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
     "Celia was expecting a visitor"
2. en·cour·age
   inˈkərij/
   verb
   past tense: encouraged; past participle: encouraged
   1. give support, confidence, or hope to (someone).
      "we were encouraged by the success of this venture"
      synonyms: hearten, cheer, buoy up, uplift, inspire, motivate, spur on, stir, stir up, fire up, stimulate, invigorate, vitalize, revitalize, embolden, fortify, rally; More
      
      
      
      
      
      
      • give support and advice to (someone) so that they will do or continue to do something.
        "pupils are encouraged to be creative"
        synonyms: persuade, coax, urge, press, push, pressure, pressurize, prod, goad,egg on, prompt, influence, sway;
        informalput ideas into one's head
        "she had encouraged him to go"
      • help or stimulate (an activity, state, or view) to develop.
        "the intention is to encourage new writing talent"
        synonyms: support, back, champion, promote, further, foster, nurture, cultivate,strengthen, stimulate; More
        
      re·quired
      rəˈkwī(ə)rd/
      adjective
      1. officially compulsory, or otherwise considered essential; indispensable.
         "eight editions were published, each required reading for trainees"
         • in keeping with one's wishes; desired.
           "the corset, the garment that ensured the required female shape"
      
      

referred

We have demonstrable proof that it was never mentioned in the leadership channel(as was claimed by your officers). Your officers have been able to provide 0 evidence at all that any contact was made. None. Not a shooped up screenshot or a doctored log to your name. Nothing. The burden of proof falls on faceless because you can only prove existence, not nonexistence. We're all patiently waiting for them to post something that proves this claim, but it has yet to come out.

As for your dictionary warring over "expected", once again, this post from your guildleader shows what HE expects:

http://imgur.com/QAwe1kJ

And my previous example given:

If your boss says "i expect you to be in at 7am tomorrow", and you stroll in at noon, hows that gonna work out for you? How would you interpret "expect" in that case? Would you think hes just looking forward to the probability of you showing up at 7am?

This is not the place for this discussion.

The other thread concerning this issue was locked. I expect that this one shall be as well.

Time has passed and most are now aware of the details surrounding this event. I am sure that anything further will be addressed in the leadership channel or else at the next rotation meeting.

The problem again - that is YOUR interpretation. Roshen, the arbiter and judge here, has interpreted it to mean that attempted mediation and arbitration is REQUIRED. These rotation rules were not written by lawyers. I'd love to overhaul the whole rule section and make it more ironclad, but I'm not doing pro-bono work for this. If someone want's to pony up my $350/hr fee, I'll fix the rules so they are ironclad.

And what exactly makes MM mature? You like most people have fallen for Dima's lies and manipulation. Do you think it's mature for someone to dispel another guild's charmed targets and repeatedly cast Eyes of Zomm in the middle of another guild's raid to screw up their players targeting? Well that what's your guild leader did in Sky. So don't give us that, "you're so immature" crap. Your guild has KSed, cheated, trained, kill stealed, griefed, and manipulated every situation more than any other guild.

Not a valid analogy since guild leaders are not bosses over one another. The use of expected in the rotation is that of "hope for". Encouraged further clarifies this, since you wouldn't encourage guilds to do something if it were required.

Here are a couple direct responses from Roshen in a conversation with the LJ guild leaders.

"This is why you have a group of guilds that can work together to come up with solutions after something "not awesome" happens with the rotation.

You can meet after an incident comes up, and work out compromises. Maybe those compromises are trading slots (or giving up a future slot as punishment) when someone is at fault. As we move forward and there are raid rotation issues some issues will be malicious... and some issues will result from misunderstandings.

You've asked to have control over your rotation, and the management of it. I've told you that you guys have control over your rotation and the management of it... and we're available in situations where you guys can't work it out.

... but don't contact us and tell us that a guild has broken the rotation and you can't work it out... then be surprised that someone reads that message and comes to the conclusion that you couldn't work it out. "

"Since it's not clear in the current rotation document, it would be awesome to get some system in place so "we couldn't reach someone in X guild after an hour so we opened X CS tickets" IS NOT how guilds on Lockjaw handle situations with the rotation.

I understand that when guilds plan their time around the rotation, it's a beat if someone breaks that. It can mean that people log on to do raid content, and that time has been wasted by someone breaking rotation.

That being said, it isn't really fair to expect every guild leader (or decision making officer) to be available to you in every minute in the day. Handling a raid rotation, and having consequences for breaking rotation doesn't mean that everything needs to be handled in that moment. "

Faceless has stated their expectation for all guilds on the server is that they should have a representative available 24/7 in the leadership channel to be prepared to answer when situations like this arise. There is no other guild on the server who is willing or able to do this and it's just beyond ridiculous that once again Faceless states that just because they do it, all guilds need to. Fortunately Roshen has answered this request with a firm no.

The fact is, this entire argument is just petty and everyone knows it. I've been involved with the rotation since it began. I had the original conversations with Darth, Gulfein and anyone else involved in the rotation. I've known Gulfein since before the server started from my days on Fippy, Darth applied to Ascended Darkness before Lockjaw or Ragefire ever started, and Ascended Darkness was even reached out to by Zaide to have their member core of Faceless be absorbed by us before the server began. Our core had a longstanding presence on Fippy and one thing that I believe can be said without dispute is that we have an outstanding reputation of playing fair and avoiding drama. I play way too much EQ and I know the details of everything involved as well as the background of all parties.

Here is my request to all parties involved so that the server can continue on with a healthy relationship. We are going to be playing together for a long, long time. It does not have to be such a brutal and bitter environment. The server can be as great or terrible as the leaders of the server make it. Faceless and Modest Man appear to be the 2 biggest parties involved, so I am going to state my honest and open opinion of what it would take for things to de-escalate.

Modest Man, quit accepting so many people who use and abuse . You are doing yourselves zero favors and you're also contributing to ruining the integrity of the game by allowing people who bot to remain in your guild. Remove them. Also, quit trying to play the manipulation card at every single turn. Gulfein, you have a long history of pulling the strings of people to try to get them to side with you on everything and act like anything that happens is no big deal, when the reality is it is a big deal. You know many things your guild has done has been questionable ethically. Quit trying to be so vindictive towards Faceless, forget their past transgressions, and let it go for the good of the server.

Faceless, quit with the personal attacks on Modest Man leadership, particularly from your own leadership. I've watched this entire drama unfold with first hand knowledge of what happens, and to claim in any way that you had zero to do with the manner in which it has escalated is complete and total bs. You've antagonized Modest Man for months now and have contributed to the situation being the way it is. Quit claiming the rotation was healthy before. You held the rotation hostage, made the rules up as you went, and were unwilling to listen to suggestion AD made in regards to how it worked before. That rotation was NOT healthy or one that AD would agree to if it weren't for the alternative being both guilds socking. You all over us time and time again in situations where a server would crash on our Vox turn and you would say oh yeah, I guess that makes it FFA, without having any prior discussion on the matter. Some of your other proposal included 15 minute engage timers for mobs and having a raid force in the zone when a mob spawned on a 24 hour variance window, or your mob would be forfeited. You want total server domination. Additionally, your leadership has gone on a public campaign to destroy Modest Man and denying this would be completely ludicrous at this point. Whether you admit it or not, the irony of this is you are the exact same quality of people you claim Modest Man to be, particularly from how you view their leadership.

It's really sad watching grown men be so damn petty. All of you need to grow up. I watched the server population of Fippy shrink due to the vocal minority, aka the ultra competitive guilds, dictate the pace and direction of the server. Those guilds killed the server, and the way both of your guilds are acting now will contribute to the same think on Lockjaw. Log in, have some fun with your guildies, and enjoy the game. Your actions have begun to leak over to other guilds leadership who are having to mediate and it's getting old quickly.

Your interpretation is irrelevant. DBG has already ruled. The arbitration/mediation rule is NOT an option. It is mandatory. Your own GL has stated that the proper procedure was to mediate the disputes before going to GMs.

You can try to lawyer your way out of the rules, but it is clear based on the course of dealings, and now a ruling from DBG, that arbitration/mediation was required.

FI did not follow that rule. The Guild Leaders should punish them.

If the rule wasn't meant to be followed, it wouldn't have been a rule to begin with. Again, I am sure this is something that will be addressed at the next meeting. I'm not sure that you really want to play this game in a world where an entire guild can be suspended for one person's actions, especially where even your leadership has claimed that this was not their intention. So the real question here is, what is better? A world where the leadership of rival guilds works to resolve disputes or a world where you can expect to be suspended at any moment for something that nobody in your guild could have prevented?

If we are going to continue discussing these matters here, don't you think it would be better to offer some positive suggestions on how things like this can be prevented in the future?

There were 6 officers on at the time, most junior officers, but they were on and would be able to notify higher ups. Several FI also have our mumble info, how difficult is it to pop in and ask questions?

Quick, all rotation guilds toss in 5 or so krono from your mage box teams! Fee paid

This rotation agreement is the boss over the guild leaders, though.

SO in essence what you are saying is that TL winning is no longer relevant as well.. gotchya! Finally someone admits it...

The hatred is strong in this one