Concerns: Artifacts from a Support Role

Not really trying to say that, no. A Controller or Healer who is focused heavily on that role and on their game will probably want to zero in on particular stats to help themselves and the group out.

But that's part of the challenge, too. Those kinds of players will probably already be heavily invested in those stats, so any more investment could end up being overkill, or it could hit diminishing returns which is a recipe for player frustration. In the worst case scenario, it ends up breaking the combat balance the devs are aiming for, which is a recipe for dev frustration.

That leaves stats that non-damage roles would consider secondary as the best place to add in some bonuses.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...of-how-i-wish-artifacts-would-be-done.292071/


Ive already posted in regards of this subject

even sent it to a dev with a reply

Short answer...Yes, Damage is king. It's a very well known fact that ANYONE can easily observe. When was the last time you ran a raid with 2 healers or 2 trolls or both??? When was the last time you ran with two healers without someone in the group questioning the set up (seriously, why do people have to be a*holes if they're not setting up the group...if your job is DPS don't question the set up)???

I've easily solo healed Gotham City Zoo....but my friends and leaguemates prefer the safety net of two healers...it's just smarter (Joker-Bat, Talia and her gas plus transformations), especially if you know your group has the burn (particularly if there's an Earth tank present). Had a recent run where we got a couple of extras to do damage, and one of them questioned why we had 2 healers. We actually had to reply to that stupid question...and yes, despite the fact that it is completely possible to solo heal and solo troll, it's still stupid to think that two healers is somehow a bad thing. Anytime I join a group and there's more than one support role, some mouth breather has to make an issue of it...that's all the evidence you need that "DPS is king" is the prevailing mentality. Yeah yeah yeah....the content doesn't call for two of anything, that's not the point.

Anywho, as that relates to DPS, extra survivability is not a bad thing at all, and while it's perfectly fine to make suggestions for future artifacts ahead of time, it's a bit presumptuous to think that the Devs will change their plans for the first set of artifacts if they plan to release more. Right now this energy is better spent on testing what actually is to hopefully ensure it launches without any glaring holes, so that future artifacts can be made quick and easy with different benefits.

I agree on that point but I feel it's "too late". How long will the next set take after the first? Why release all health/prec/dps? Why not 1 health/prec/dps, 1 vit/crit power chance etc?

Im not personally asking you, but i just dont understand the planning. People who have played for awhile know the next set won't be released in a timely manner.

These artifacts will be released with nothing changed, then in 6 months to a year, the support roles will get theirs, finally.

How is it dishonest when you yourself are saying that is how you run alerts?

If it were not true then you would need other roles so the whole thing is dishonest.

Nexus last boss, proves the point and I don't know if this is a disagreement on ego or a since of denial.

Before the revamp some newer members would not even know there were shields that popped up, because the burn was so super crazy during that time CR was king.

Now they are having to experience it, are they running with more trolls/healers than before or are they still using the same amount of DPS's as before.

If they have the extra heals, why, my only guess would be skill of the healer.

By the way I don't run alerts that way, never have, there is always some type of other role than DPS when I run, those 4 DPS grpoups can be a nightmare.

And no, the whole force 2 of every role has been dropped by the Dev's, content is easily beaten without the powerpuff buffs to Vit/Resto all content only truly need only 1 heal/troll.

The Having extra role specific anything except to increase damage is the only way to drop a DPS and allow for the heal/troll tanks would require a bit different difficulty in content.

Since you know the game is DPS Focus, then to counter balance it would need to up the difficulty or up the other role damage.

I don't know if they can stop catering to DPS, being it does have the largest population with the only thing that a majority care to put time to some what learn how to play and complete content with.

The Dev's are getting there though, I have to feel for them with the whole swing in how the community accepts the changes so far and only hope that more Trolls embrace the other aspect of Controlling, stuns/holds...

We could embrace other aspects of controlling if we had more controller stats....

Just because something is the "de facto" leader doesn't mean its ok. You are correct, though: the game caters to dps and the dev team cant stop the train.

They can fix this by giving me some resto, dom, power crit chance and power magnitude.

The damage for support roles is there.players either wont do the work for sp and mod that way. Or they replace gear. To up damage and loose the stats they need for thier role. Plus they forget to do thier role

I am not sure why people want to use the only argument against me that we should just wait to see if the 2nd round of artifacts are better and just deal with these that aren't even on live server yet?

No where in the livestream or in Mepp's replies have they EVER EVEN ONCE STATED WHEN THE NEXT ARTIFACTS WOULD BE RELEASED Mepps litterally said "eventually" they will come out with secondary artifacts. Guess what they also said eventually SM would come out again and its been pretty much 1 year since the last one, so if you want to wait at least 1 year for another set of artifacts instead of trying to change ones that aren't even released yet that that is asinine.

I am not trying to create something out of nothing, it is just impossible to logically debate what I said in the initial post so the only way people can respond negatively is exactly what you said just wait and see which Proxy already covered so you aren't adding anything new to this thread.

There are much easier ways to accomplish both benefiting the group and me at the same time with these artifacts, buffing health is the most vanilla recourse to substitute any creative thinking of the group. the Sparc weapons are the opposite example they helped the group just as much as they helped me, where these artifacts do not. If the dps in the group have low level artifacts and myself as the controller have a lvl 100 artifact I am barely helping the group whatsoever they get like 1k health extra that's it. Having 1k health is not going to make or break a raid in the long run but if the controller artifact had something to do with a shield or debuffs or extra power out than even though the group had low lvl artifacts I am giving them more power, protecting them more often, goes faster because more debuffs etc, I am benifitting the group and myself at the same time.

I tried to read the entire thread, I really did, but at the end of the day it's almost the same argument (from both sides) and at the end of the day it's basically been a similar enough "sequence of events" that's been happening since stats matter was first introduced on test (folks not willing to get on the same page, and yes I understand how difficult that can be).

I'm just going to pose a simple question here after I make a statement. The support community has always been a small one, and I'm sure if you got right down to it this is the smallest it has ever been. Do we really want to have something that upon release will just further upset that small community when there is no guarantee way to right the ship? Just food for thought.

its been said once before by myself and others, never understood why people settle for less and then defend it like some are in this thread.

Sure its the artifact but doesnt mean it needs to benefit 1 role mainly.

heal and trolls are usually always in the back of the room out of harms way, only time they get in harms way is in small hallways or picking people up.

there are other things that would benefit each role much more then 'lets just give everyone health and make it equal to more dmg!'

thats the thing though, anyone who doesn't play support doesn't care.

The only issue with that is that increased health only actually benefits 2 roles, having increased health currently and in the past only serve the Tank and in this case of Artifacts the DPS because DPS are the only role that gets to turn the increased Health into a positive in increased Damage and yes the DPS artifact increased the might of the group but unless we are a hybrid atomic/rage/earth tank than every other powerset won't be able to take advantage of that extra might realistically either. Like I mentioned previously here the SPARC weapons for Lightning Strike episode had group benefits but also at the same time creating great individual benefits. It's not as if the controller artifact increases my power pool, POT strength, debuff duration based on a % of my health, that is only the DPS artifact that can use Health in such a way all I can do is assist the DPS in doubling the strength of their artifact.

At least can we can the base stats changed on the artifacts so that they are benefiting our current role? The DPS artifact gets might/power/health which is awesome for them, covers every stat they need but the controllers/healers get Health/Prec/Resto/Vit? The base stats need to be just as useful to us as the DPS

I'm not sure I completely agree with your assessment here. It follows that if the group has more overall health, then....

Every group member is more resilient and less prone to critical health depletion, which means....

Healers have to work a little less to keep the group alive so that they can reserve more heals for the tank and/or reserve more power for shielding+SC's, which means....

Trollers have to work less to keep the healers powered, less to keep tanks powered (because group shielding from healers contributes further to tank survivability rather than just relying on their own powers), which means....

Trollers would have more power they can devote to cc and debuffs.

It's a bit of a trickle down, but granting more overall health can have ancillary benefits beyond just what individual roles can directly convert into individual output.

I do think that some of the base stat buffs need swapping, but the special iconic bonuses are clearly meant to be a set that synergise together and feed each other. I’m really looking forward to using these and seeing how crazy it gets when all 5 are used together. Please don’t spoil that because some people here have role tunnel vision. I’m sure the vit/resto buff artifacts will come later. I’m really hoping for a cc resistance artifact in the future, but let’s just have some fun stacking all the health bonuses with this set.

Sad that this is how you encourage players to change their views. Kind of hand holding, considering that players are so much against health.