More and more I realize it's Pay2Win

I have yet to find a situation where lockon ground is mandatory, and lockon air is outperformed by flak.

And pay 2 win does not mean paying money and then winning. That's what the words which make up the phrase mean. That's like insisting that a "quarterback" has quarter of a back. Or that "Chicken & Mushroom Pot Noodles" contain chicken.

Yeah, you're right a lot of people want the items right now, same can be said for me.I guess I just have to suck up the constant spawn camping, and vehicle **** untll everybody is of high enough level or pays for the anti vehicle weaponry... damnit. Thank you though I realized that waiting will eventually some-what balance the game, since more and more people will have anti-vehicle weapons in time. +500 if I could

Ok, try looking at it not so black and white. When you take bases are you not winning? when you succesfully defend bases are you not losing? If it's not winning then it's losing correct? if it's not any of those what is it? In order to take bases and/or succesfully defend it don't you need the right set of weaponry and multiple people to use that weaponry to counter-attack? unless you're on a lesser populated server then I guess not many of these situations arise as often. On Connery is a slug fest around the crown you could get as many as 10+ platoons total in all 3 factions. Just the crown and surrounding area's now... Wait untill you see a 20 column tank line at your doorstep and realize you and 15 other heavy assaults with shrikes don't put a dent in to deter that. Oh by the way try using a default rocket launcher to hit a magrider hahahaha truly a comical sight.

There's nothing wrong with shelling out a few $$$ for a game you enjoy. Unfortunately the money I've spent is in the hope that they make the changes needed, starting with January's optimizations.

However I will admit that this is not a good reward system. I think someone already made a thread about how systems that reward you the more you play need to have significant gains to be had for even playing a few hours. All this double exp we've been getting lately is fantastic, and personally I think it would be a far better cert rate if it became the standard. If you play for a few hours today you should at least be able to buy several upgrades, if not have enough certs for a new weapon after a few days.

That's the other issue I have as well. If they are going to make weapons so damn expensive the upgrades need to be dirt cheap. There's so many possible upgrades that you'll already need lots of certs for them all, and I can't understand why SOE is so obsessed with making the final upgrade for a lot of things 500-100 ******* certs when the previous upgrades cost like 150 or 200.

If the guns are expensive the upgrades should be cheap, right now this isn't the kind of grind I can get into, and the only reason I've continued playing is because of the fun I have with my outfit and my friends.

M

Well there are many factors to that. Personally I can either put out flares and prevent any lock on's for a few seconds, or stay in the fight and use my afterburners to escape the rocket, you can also hide behind buildings/etc... Flak you can't just click F to escape it you need to actually leave the area or die... I am assuming you're on an extremely low populated server because everyone seems to be spawning a 10,20,30,40 tank column and invade bases. Try getting some heavy assault buddies to combat that... Truly truly a comical sight to see dudes trying to rocket a tank column that huge... Lol they either die instantly just from being outside, or they die trying to shoot them. And as soon as that rocket hits it's repaired already.. Bro try to find a populated server like on Connery, drop in to a "platoons detected area" and watch how many tanks are their... It'll change your mentality. I guarantee it. There aren't many ways to counter a tank column that huge. 1,2,3,4,5,6 tanks not really a problem if you have a friendly platoon... 10?20? 30 How do you counter that?

I have a possible answer for that. It's power creep. It's a problem with WoW where too many players reach "endgame" too quickly(or enough time has passed). Thats why there are gold sinks, and new "tiers" for armors and weapons. I recommend you guys watch Extra Credits, it's a great show explaining how games work. They did an episode on power creep too. You can find it on Youtube or Penny Arcade.

You want everything now and don't want to have to work for it or unlock the same stuff early. You also got the game for free. Is there anything else SOE can do for his Highness today?

Yeah, I find the game fascinating I am truly addicted and entertained however that doesn't blind me from these frustrating things, like a 10,20,30,40 tank column. I don't know how people are supposed to counter that. Do you just get an outfit of guys to spawn you know 20 or soESF's? cuz if you're rocking a huge tank column you g2 have AA in there some where so you need a large enough fleet to counter-act that some what. Also what if they don't all have rocket pods how do you counter these tank columns... None the less you need to grind many hours.. Right now I am making about 80-120 certs an hour which is 20k+ score per hour and that's above average... I am not sure how much you're gaining but there are many players making 25,50, 60 certs an hour oh man the grind is just terrible i feel forced into buying weapons... And I make 2-4x more than many players

Honestly, I've so far put $135 into the game because for me, it has enough variety to have the worth of three games or more. Most of the other games I spend money on are in bundles. Humble THQ Bundle and Humble Indie Bundle 7. $13 and I got about 17 games and 15 soundtracks. I couldn't be happier, especially since those games are ones I find fun.

There is a pay-to-rush game (Spiral Knights) that I've put about 600 bucks into (primarily to make my character look how I want). Why? Because I didn't want to rush, and because 600 dollars felt moot compared to the few that have put $2500+ into it. I don't enjoy pay to win games. Games with a pay to rush mechanic are where my heart lies. Project Torque, Heat Online, Spiral Knights, and Planetside 2 are all games that seem to follow this mechanic and those are where I spend my money. I've spent not a dime on Pay to Win games like Wolf Team and Combat Arms.

Remember, this is a pay-to-not-grind (simplified to pay-to-rush) game. You are not anymore powerful than someone who has spent certification points only, even if you've spent money. Do you save a boatload of certs that you have to grind for? Yeah. Do you get the cert upgrades faster? Yeah. Do you get something super powerful that non-paying customers can't have? No. Infantry and vehicle cosmetics are cash only, which have very little, if any, impact on the game.

In any pay-to-rush game, there is more than likely to be something that doesn't affect gameplay that non-paying players can't have. It's more than fair, in my opinion, because it gives incentive to support the game. You're still just as competitive as the average schmo that walks around who's paid. They just can get their upgrades faster, which is justified because they're all equally powerful. Does someone get a Dalton or Rocket Pods faster than you? Yeah. Can you still get them? Yes.

an elevated position and lots of range, and being wating for it. If you start trying when they are already rolling around your spawns, yeah not much you can do. If you are in position waiting for em though, a good number of HA can do realy mean things to a tank collum. The G2G lock on helps alot though cus you want to be operating at long range.

Yo man, please come to Connery hot drop into a "platoons detected area" after you realize there are literally 20,30,40 tanks outside of these big area's come back to this thread.. If you already on a highly populated server(assuming they do these large tank based platoons there. How do you counter them? Cuz I am completely confused .. Also do you ever get camped outside of a spawnroom? you do realize why you can't leave correct? it's the vehicles... not the infantry you can't get pass those tanks, zepher's, esf's nah.. not happoning not even 1 out of 100 infantry will make it out, not even the invis infiltrators. How is this balanced? please explain to me

Consider the following:

• A traditional FPS of this level of quality costs $60 new
• There have been at least two triple station cash sales since launch. Double sales are more common than triples.
• At triple value, $60 worth of station cash would buy $180 worth of value.
• But let's knock that down a bit to $40 worth of cash, which would buy $120 worth of value
• For 2/3 the price of any other game, you can purchase 17 1K cert weapons and still have some cash left over

In short: Money is only a problem if you're a freeloader that wants to play a AAA-level MMO game without giving the people that made it a single cent in return.

Great point I love it! Much respect. However I must ask have you fought a 10,20,30,40 tank column yet? with maxes and ESF's in their platoon completely demolishing all your platoons in the area? Rendering you completely incapable of defending a base? It's totally possible to destroy them.. Everything is possible.. However it requires a lot and a lot of grinding, a lot and a lot of cash. you need poeple on tank mines, Tank grenades, You need liberators, rocket launchers. So much resources and effort and cooperation...not to mention the right weapons.. you can have 500 heavy assaults spawn with shrike's they probably won't go anywhere just too many tanks... Seeing as how this game is still new, how is this tank column balanced? I say balanced because you can't force people to buy zepher's/daltons or other anti-tank weaponry to combat such a huge line of tanks infantry is almost irrelevant to that. Are people just expected to wait untill a big group of player base has the weaponry to counter act these huge zergs? We have a well known outfit on this server called 'Devil Dog's' AKA 666 and they can't even combat that.

Just to be clear - the author (me) has never ever been in a MAX suit. I've repaired them, but never actually used one.Therefore the author makes no claim for his opinion to be in any way superior to the one, by which the opening post has been made. If anything, the author sympathies with Mr. Breezy.
Now, based on the information I've gathered, to be effective at countering aerial threats, one needs to invest in a second Burster cannon, as one is simply not enough. Based on that logic, shouldn't two default MAX suits fulfill the necessary two Burster cannon requirement for productive anti-air play with the added bonus of covering a wider field of view. Thus the price of either seven dollars or long-hour-cert-grind is effectively eliminated by using in game infantry resources (the author hopes that MAX suits cost infantry and not vehicle resources, otherwise the author just sounded completely dumb). Furthermore, two dual-Burster-cannon MAX'es can be replaced by four default MAX'es with the bonus of now having four maxes on the field thus adding an element of psychological warfare as enemy fighters should think twice before approaching a position, guarded by four MAX'es.
Of course, the given scenario most probably needs at least two zerg to simultaneously decide to pull a MAX suit and work together for the common good of every person around them. The author understand that that notion has zero credibility with reality what so ever. Though it would seem as a means to promote team-play building skills. The author sees the abolishment of the dual-Burster-cannon MAX load-out as a way to encourage either team tactics or massive rage-quits over death-by-air.
Just thinking out loud.

I believe that this game has a psychological P2W feeling when you first start.
Think about the first few days of playing, when you were not even making 20 certs per hour and you notice you need the second burster for your max, or how some of the default weapons are not that good and you go to the forums and read about all the top of the line weapons.
Them you look at your weapons unlock screen and you almost pass out when you see they cost 1000 certs.... and you only making 20 certs per hour. Or you can spend 700 SC to buy the weapon.
If you liked the game, you will probably use the common line of thought "it was free to download, so I saved $40-$60, and I actually enjoy the game, and if I could get those weapons without having to spend the next 3 months saving certs, I know I will stick with it, and there is no monthly fee, so I think I will drop $20 into the game and get them so I can compete.
And sooo you spend money....
We know that on paper, this game IS NOT pay to win, since only cosmetic items are SC.... Oh, WAIT, you can buy BOOSTs with SC, that will give you 50% more XP, which in turn means getting certs faster...
Sounds fair. Oh wait... you can also buy a month plan and get another 50% XP bonus, that is only $15 per month, which is inline with other MMOs.

So, if you choose to spend money, not only you get to unlock weapons WAY before your level (since certs = XP, and XP = levels), you also get to level faster, which means you get certs faster, so you can BUY your skills/accessories for weapons etc, much sooner as well.

If you are level 33, you have around 4400 certs points earned. That means you could had bought 4 1k weapons and a couple of mods.
At level 100, you have around 77k cert points which means you could had bought every weapon in game.

By the time you are level 100, you could had bought every weapon and attachment with certs, if you had been patient... but how long would it had taken for you to get to level 100 without having spent a single dollar/Euro in this game, using only the default experience and only buying weapons you can afford with certs? We still do not know, since the World's First BR100 used membership bonus + boost.

So, while you can buy every weapon in game with certs, the cert price for most of the weapon systems, added to the cert cost of most upgrades you need, really tips the scale towards spending money in this game to buy weapons early on in the game, and it will strongly encourage you to spend money later in game, when you have enough certs to buy anything in game to buy membership + boosts, since the regular experience you get in game is not that high to be able to level up fast.

You can buy items and you can buy certs with money (boosts + membership = buying certs). Or you can grind at 1x experience.

From a personal view, I think if you like the game and play it as your main game, I think you should spend some money in the game, since the game needs to be profitable for SOE to keep it around. Programmers are not cheap, and the game really needs them to fix bugs and create new content. Obviously SOE will do everything in their power to "encourage" you into spending money in the game. As stated by other, the beauty of F2P or even F2W games, is, if you cannot afford to spend money, you can still play the game and have a great time. And if you do not mind playing support classes as a lower level while you grind certs, you can even have a HUGE impact on the front line by dropping ammo packs, repairing, healing. All of which you can start doing without using a single cert.

yeah, coordinating a platoon like that is definitely possible however I don't see how shrike's would do the job, and the enemy would have to agree to fight you under those conditions. I am unsure of how your server is but all our fighting particularly happens on indar... If you want to play for certs you goto indar. if you want big epic battles you goto indar.. you get the point and the fights are usually not nagotiable. They'll happen at the Crown, or Zurvan.. Sure crown is elevated but when you got tank columns rolling in like that it's very difficult to combat I've seen it and I've seen it beaten not once they just take a base, either split or guarantee 100% take another base. Only when they seem to get bored or split the platoon are you able to recap bases. If you want to see exactly what I am talking about play for 1-2 hours by the crown on Connery you'll be shocked bro! it's quite a sight!

Yes, I've already considered through obvious reasons that 2 people = 2 bursters therefor spending 7 dollars isn't exactly mandatory... however you seem very intelligent(not sarcastically) however you haven't considered that this is a zerg type of game. Massive massive battles... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 people with 1 burster, 9 bursters total.. not very effective for 1 specific reason... 9 different people focusing all different things, all different minds. What do you do say "Focus the guy there" "Focus the guy to the left?" "Focus the guy to the right?" ROFL. having 5 guys on dual burster maxes is a simple task for disabling small ESF's flying very close 300,400,500 meters... I use the dual bursters a lot ,even if I am by myself. Disabling a lib from camping a spawn room is VERY VERY HARD, most ESF's will just fly away not kill.. maybe they'll repair and come back again.. Now my dual burster is the equivalent to 2 people with just the default's... How many individual people would it take to compensate for say 7?8?9 dual bursters, and individual players multiplies the problem, due to 1 thing. Focus fire.

Smart outfits like we have on connery will have libs hovering, 600,700,800,900 meters up. To have 9 individual players on this duty makes it much more complicating to handle even simple situations of zerg... I Really wish you played on Connery you will see what high populated server's will do, I am sure it's safe to say you're playing on an EXTREMELY low populated server to have a very slight clue as to what exactly I am talking about without me having to elaborate and explain everything extremely thoroughly as if I needed to tell someones life story exactly the way it happened.

You seem to making the mistake of thinking any of things are needed to play. Yes, they make it easier and yes they increase the range of targets you are effective against. However it is completely possible to be an effective player with just the items you spend certs on.

I have one character I have spent SC on because I like playing with new weapons and two I don't because I'm cheap. The two I haven't spent SC on still get kills and I still have fun on, I can still blow up ground vehicles, air is another matter but I'm finding outside of farms that air isn't a huge deal most of the time, no weapons would save me from getting rocketed through windows or in the back anyway.

How is this p2w? I got 4 k certs ready to be spent. Grinding certs is ultra easy in this game.

Yes, however I point the finger at the company for expecting the player base to have your mentality. I have your mentality I pay to have an effect on the crucial things that allow squads/platoons to succeed. Anti vehicle weapons, AA, Anti Max weapons, all the good stuff. However there are many people that want to play for free. Now this being a team game, you HAVE to rely on people to assist... there maybe 10,20,30 tanks outside our outside shield of bases waiting for generators to get capped.. and people are still spawning Infiltrators, or LA without C-4 and I say without C-4 because they aren't making a dent in anything. You need to have players that actually want to combat the attack and counter it therefor adding balance to the game. However due to people not investing money they are completely incapable of assisting in defending. I am lvl 48 right now and with a total of 11k certs that's so little so so little I can't even imagine grinding certs to gain the essential anti-type of weapons. I've bought 1k cert weapon the rest were all cash and I have so little certs, because I invest in add-on's to weapons, class armors(I haven't even bought the 1k cert armors) and I have no certs.. for someone to invest all their certs into 1k weapons and ignore armor, addon's etc.... Lol that's for insane people