Why are land mines blowing up stationary vehicles?

So that's a no on actually engaging in a real discussion instead of continuing to spew logical fallacy after logical fallacy then?

Edit - Also, Blockade Armor is comparable to Nanoweave, not to Flak Armor. Both have an effective result of increasing your health pool - only difference between the two is that Blockade armor reduces the incoming damage, where Nanoweave increases your health. Same result. Flak Armor is most comparable to Mine Guard, although there's no direct correlation due to Mine Guard affecting only a single type of explosive munition. Which is why I didn't try to draw a direct correlation between the two.

Because discussing with you is pointless as long as you insist that all counters to mines, be it equipment or tactics, are invalid and thus mines are OP while exaggerating the threat mines post against an organized team.

Want to whine about something? Whine about Drop Pods instant killing Sunderers. Even less defense against them than against mines.

I haven't insisted that all counters to mines are invalid, actually. I've agreed with you that there is, indeed, one counter that is consistently effective, which is the Mine Guard. That has never been a point of contention with me, in any thread, regardless of who I've been responding to. I WILL state that there is no tactical counter to mines which is effective without removing the rest of the effectiveness of the vehicle itself. Which is why I'm making a fairly reasonable suggestion that will negate a serious balance flaw in the current game design, without rendering mines useless.

If you'd actually bother to read what I post instead of simply taking one or two sentences out of context, misrepresenting my argument, and then constructing a counterargument against the position you've imagined up for me (that's what a straw man argument is, by the way), you'd know that.

That, frankly, is why you find discussing with me to be pointless. Because you have never actually discussed anything with me, just with the fantasy poster you've dreamed up, whose posts have little relation to my own.

So basically you're arguing out of your *** now. We're comparing C4 to AT mines, so your bit about infantry mines is silly.

I run C4 on light assault and AT mines on engie, and you cannot get the uses out of AT mines that you can with C4 without a high risk of getting killed. I want to see you round a corner and get surprised by a MAX, throw down an AT mine, and shoot it several times before the MAX blows you away. I do this all the time with C4. C4 is only limited by its damage and your ingenuity, AT mines are limited by their trigger. If you can't see this yet, then I give up, your mind is set beyond reason.

- Park the Sunderer in a spot which is hard to reach unless going through your axis of attack.
- Have guards around the Sunderer on lookout (Infiltrator)/manned turrets depending on terrain.
- Place AI Mines around the Sunderer.
- Have a Scout Radar Flash next to the Sunderer.
- ...

The issue of whether mines should explode on stationary vehicles is a hotly contested one and I don't think we'll solve it. I proposed an alternative solution in a thread but it didn't get a response, so I assume people would rather argue this and get nowhere a million times over.

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/av-mines-higher-quantity-lower-damage.71664/

^^^

Very few people in this thread are interested in discussion, sadly. I think what you're proposing there would be an interesting change. I posted something along different lines over on page 4 that's another alternative.

Unfortunately, it's running into the "but I like my unbalanced OP weapon" horde.

More weaker mines has the problem that it makes mines practically useless. Mines are passive unless used in an assault (which you apparently don't want them to be able to). A minefield depends on the enemy to drive into/over it to do damage. But no enemy when hit with a mine will continue to drive after he hits the first mine. Instead he will stop, repair and shell the path before him/drive around the minefield.
That makes placing mines useless as they would not kill anything and cost resources. Using them as close range base defense to support the defenders is also hard as nearly no one defends and there is no early warning which allows you to place a minefield before the enemy arrives. And in a combat mines are destroyed very easily by stray shots.

Again dodging around so that you do not have to admit that you are flat out wrong.

Tactics exist to deal with Engineers. Use them (or not and get your Sunderer blown up). Your choice. Luckily (hopefully) SOE doesn't balance around scrubs like you.

It's really amazing to me how many times you'll respond, like an endlessly broken record, arguing against a position I haven't even taken. I'm curious, did you lick drying paint as a child? Perhaps suffer some severe electrical shock?

Understand something: I'm not dodging around. You just haven't actually responded to anything I've said yet except by taking it wildly out of context. You've made a bunch of arguments that might have some merit, and certainly bring up a few decent points - they're just irrelevant to the argument I've put forth. If you ever get around to taking a break from rolling your face on the keyboard and vigorously fondling yourself while clicking resupply on your engineer's AT mines, take the time to read what I've actually posted and the argument I'm putting forth, and construct an argument that involves discussing what I've actually written, then I'll happily discuss that argument.

Until then, I'm sure it makes you feel wonderful to post your :masterstroke: responses to self-constructed arguments. By all means, carry on.

I think the devs balanced the current mines on the idea that engineers would work together and lay mine fields, each laying 2+ mines. The thing is this doesn't happen, and the fact very few people defend further compounds the problem. Until the defense problem gets worked out, it's going to be hard to make mines that are both useful and not used in an assault like manner.

Not at all. Vehicles often don't stop on a penny and, instead, require some time to brake and come to a complete stop. There's plenty enough stopping time to run over three or more mines, assuming the driver has perfect reaction times to the first one exploding, which I guarantee they will not. Back in PS1, you often ran over all but the last mine required before you thought "oh crap, mines!" and then couldn't get anywhere near stopping before you hit the final one and exploded. So no, I completely disagree with you on that point and you only have to look at human reaction times and the game's speed physics to show that it's easily as effective.

Honestly I forgot about the mines costing resources and that's a good point. Obviously the cost would have to be dramatically reduced as well as the maximum stored increased to compensate. Maybe have them for bulk-buying for convenience, where you get 10 at a time with a max of 150 or something.

Finally, the issue with defending: yes, I completely agree with you on this one. Nobody defends right now, but that's because defending is both difficult and also ultimately unrewarding since there's no additional XP reward for a defence. Allegedly there's an xp boost for everything you do while defending but I have yet to see it except for literally killing someone while I'm next to the capture point. Even if there was the 10% boost or whatever it's been suggested as, you'd still need to kill 100 people in that defence in order to meet the same xp for a full-size base capture.

My idea would have to be in conjunction with a better defence balance and incentive from SOE. I hope we'll get that, but I'm not confident. As it stands, my outfit often stays away from defending and will prefer to go and cap it back after it's flipped because that pays more.

Do you really believe that or do you know, deep down, that you are posting ********?

You claim that there is no tactic to protect yourself against Engineers without making the ASM Sunderer useless. I posted several and non of them affects the effectiveness of a ASM (Yes, walking 10 seconds before you reach the frontline is not useless, too). But of course you fail to admit that your claim is garbage. Instead you flat out refuse to discuss this (might be for the best as you would simply repeat your mines are OP as you cant defend yourself against them and when you can then you should not" mantra)

It's only a matter of time before people cry about me strapping my ESF down with C4 and suicide ramming the rear of their sunderers, right after I let off a volley of rawkit pods.

I don't believe it, I know that I'm not dodging. Everything you've responded to me with relies on you deliberately ignoring the rest of what I post to have any validity. You can't even accurately sum up the argument I'm making, Ixal. I've flat out refused to discuss your forays into imaginary land, yes, because they're precisely that.

In order:

- No such spot exists that doesn't either cripple the Sunderer's ability to support an assault, or leave the Sunderer wide open to vehicular attack.
- This is theoretically possible. It's just extremely unlikely that you're going to get the number of people necessary to effectively prevent an Engineer from making it to the Sunderer to hang out doing nothing on the chance that one tries it. And it's entirely ineffective against certain approach vectors.
- AI mines are great, assuming you've got 6+ engineers that don't mind dropping a ton of mines to actually provide adequate coverage. And the engineer doesn't, you know, toss a grenade ahead of him to clear them out. Like anyone with half a brain will do. Or just scope for a second with an IRNV scope to see them and just not walk over them.
- Actually not a terrible idea. You still have to KILL him, of course, which is where the problem usually comes in, since a scout radar gives you a nice little blip but doesn't tell you who they are or what they're planning, and it's not usually just one person in the radar's radius.

Basically all of your "tactical defense" options rely on things that either have a crippling downside, require an absurd amount of coordination that even most outfits won't bother doing, or rely on the enemy engineer being stupid.

And all of that ignores the other issue, which is C4. Like I've been saying, you really need to dial back the Frothing At The Mouth level a bit and actually go read my post back on page 4. The change I proposed there, which you completely skipped in your frenzy to hit Reply and spew rhetoric and idiocy, both fixes the long range balance problem and avoids making C4/mines ineffective.

Says who?You? Too bad you have nothing to say.

Buy minegurd, otherwise, well die. Your 2 options.

A driver who gets it. I tip my hat to you, good sir/ma'am

So wait, if mines can be used like that, I want C4 to be thrown straight like a grenade, while I have my detonator in hands all the time, and up the damage 2 fold, since I spent twice the certs on it to get it for my LA. Who's gonna go against it? You? Why shouldn't it be put in game?

You cant throw mines like nades, they just fall down in front of you. Dont know what all this whining is for, cause lets see the fact, nobody protect the sunderer, so he get blown up into pieces, simple. You cant cry like a baby and scream for nerf, if the fault is yours, you have to protect your vehicle , if you cant............. BOOOOMMM.