What was the point of medieval castles

Serisouly, just buff the dog snot out of base assets/design, and impliment stand off weapons like artillery. Let the libs to the rest of the defense softening. Major bases like the tech plant and amp station SHOULD require a large, coordinated assault to overcome a defended base. It shouldnt simply take hordes of infantry and tanks.

The bases in game are working as intended. They provide a place to meet and fight, that's it. They are designed to remove any benefit a defender might have.

1. Non contiguous outer walls provide cover to attackers.
2. No doors or windows allow un impeded ingress
3. Multiple entrances means your back is never secured
4. Floor plans and "clutter" is designed to reduce defenders fields of fire
5. Defensive turrets are deliberately gimped with arbitrary firing arcs and limited tracking speeds.

But does that really matter here though? I mean you cannot tear down walls here.. even if you had a cannon. Walls here might as well be the bronze age equivalent for what that matters.

Zergers gotta zerg. Anything that slows down zerging xp gains is bad.

I just pointed out OP's example was a bit silly.

PS2's bases are bad because walls are too low, there are too many exposed points and their design generally doesn't support defending them.

Main reason though, is how they're placed. They're ALWAYS surrounded by high hills, plenty of cover or at the bottom of a canyon. NOBODY in their right mind would put a military base in such a place. Only the Crown is placed in an intelligent spot, it dominates the nearby landscape and has very limited avenues of attack. Exactly like it should be for all bases.

Considering all the complaints and worries about the lack of a metagame, I'd say that turning bases into meaningful points on the map would be a good thing to do.

Honestly, castles became obsolete with the advent of reliable artillery, since you could actually destroy the walls of any fortress given a week or so (and much more quickly as artillery got better) We don't have destructible terrain, however, so The Crown isn't the deathtrap it'd be in any modern war.


Anyway, I've been seeing this "civilian facility" argument a lot. It doesn't make any sense. You have a war which has been going on for some time now (at least a few weeks, ha!). Your nominally civilian facilities are often the site of major battles over resources. You FORTIFY these places, so you don't lose them to the enemy. Since you know that the enemy IS COMING to take your base, and you've been at war long enough to know how to emplace some marginally effective defenses, the mere fact that your tech plant or amp station is originally a civilian facility is irrelevant. It's been under military control ever since it started being fought over, and the military is going to do anything they can to increase their odds of holding the place.

That is really the thing though. What is universally meaningful? To some it is the Crown. Others like me walk right by the Crown because it is not meaningful.. so really what is something most agree on?

Medieval castles were not impregnable. They did however force an enemy to invest a certain minimum amount of resources and manpower before they could attempt to capture\destroy a castle.

PS2 has no real analog for this. A base can be taken by one man.

Well, theoretically, you'd want to defend the major bases (amp station, biolab, tech plant) for the number of resources they produce, or for the unique secondaries they give...

But there's not really a meaningful scarcity of resources for the base production to matter, and the secondaries aren't that strong... unless you're about to lose your VERY LAST tech plant.

Fair enough. I actually walk right by the Crown most of the time too. It's actually pretty rare that I fight there. As you say, it's not terribly important from a strategic point of view (in terms of map hexes). I often enjoy fighting at some of the other bases that offer up more enjoyable battles that still take time but are less of a meatgrinder: places like Vanu Archives and sometimes Scarred Mesa Skydock.

But what if we had a well-designed base that was also in a strategically-located hex? Have it surrounded by defensible-but-not-overly-so smaller bases to allow enemies to establish a foothold. I'd like it if territory-flipped moved a little bit slower, so that taking a base felt like an accomplishment.

Well im not quite sure why some people think that Castles were pointless in the time they were being built they had a purpose.

Watched some stuff about them on the box, and was also taught about Castles and had to build a mockup one with a keep and towers and stuff when i was in history class.

The main reasons Castles were built and used was because they were a strong point for a village or town for people trading there to take safe refuge during attacks by Barbarians.

They could keep people safe whilst under siege and await rescue or reinforcements from other castles or towns nearby. Some castles protected villages, others protected bridges or passes which held importance to an defeating an invading army.

And who the hell said Aircraft made castles obsolete lawl?

It was gunpowder that made Castles obsolete. Once gunpowder started to make its way into siege artillery and cannons were powerful enough to blast stone walls apart, Castles had lost their advantages of protection.

Military Forts then took over a Castles job with a Castle remaining in hands of people like Lords or Noblemen and did not have any military or administration value towards the village or town. If an invading army was invading then the people would all make haste to the Fort, which was bigger had more protection had a large garrison, cannons and more provisions for a siege.

PS2 is based on Fort design not Castle btw, however they are very badly designed for defending.

I get the feeling that half the players just want to 'win' or simply level up. They don't really want to have to try.

There is also a very important flaw to this analogy, and it comes from the mindset of the player base and that the Zerg is best.

Aside from the argument of the fact that castles are obsolete with the advent of X Technology, (Which is true, the sword is always more advanced than the shield) the main problem I see with base defense... Is that only a rare few Actually Defend. Its rare to see chokepoints used with a group firing at an overwhelming force, and laying waste to them. Mines and turrets aren't used for various reasons, in conjunction with other TEAMMATES skills and abilities. (Not saying they aren't used, saying they are rarely used to do more than lay a trap and run away without thinking of using them to cause chaos to break up an incoming force.)

This is partially because of the lack of visible benefit to defending, but also do to the fact that Most playing, just Zerg out. On offense and defense. Seriously, this is how I see base defense.

Rawr the enemy is coming! Charge them!

No choice to use the cover of walls to fire over. No choice to set a four man team at one end of a hallway we all freaking KNOW the enemy will be coming down and just laying waste to whoever comes into the hall. (Seriously, two heavies on either side of a Turret and a Medic people. Unlimited Ammo, healins and some heavy anti infantry fire, plus cover when used right. You KNOW where the Enemy needs to go.) Instead, half the force is running around jumping in front of shields the Enemy can shoot through, but You can't shoot through and getting killed.

Worried about air power? Get some ESF AA in the air, or a couple guys on AA Maxes. Most of the pilots up there (Not all some of you are do have badassery) are chickens with wings. Hit their precious XP farm tool and they bug out.

The main problem about Defense has very freaking little to do with the designs, and more to do with people NOT working together on even a tactical level, let alone a strategic.

Castles were so awesome in their day because the Defenders used the Castle's defense features. It wasn't just that "Oh hey, I got a Castle, I'm good."

It was because they had watches on the wall, fireteams and carpenters fixing things, stone masons, archers, pikemen, and your brother next to you generally had your back no matter what their particular profesion was. (For various reasons of course.)

TL ; DR ?
Stop complaining about the terrain, and get your brothers and sisters on the field to cover your colors and USE that Terrain.

Exactly.

Have you looked at a Bio Lab? Like actually went to your own empty one and explored. They are planetary landing vehicles. Check them out they have landing legs and giant thrusters on them to slow their decent. How could the be expected to have the defenses of a castle?