Why Intentional TK (Especially Sundys) Is NEVER Right...

The C4 guys are out of control. TK is spiraling out of control. You can see the mentality of "its ok to TK if I can justify it" in all the responses here. The whole "its ok to TK" mentality is proof plenty that if SOE doesn't address this, we'd just have everyone murdering their own guys cause they think they "know how to play better" and if others won't listen to you, you just shoot them!

Intentional TK is a very bad thing for the game. Left unchecked, you'll just have "vets" shooting everyone else that doesn't play the way they want everyone to play the game. That's the bottom line here, and we're well down that road already.

Yes as I've experienced in the game no one ever shoots enemy troops because we are all TK'ing non stop. I mean I know I can't even make it out of the warp gate now.
/sarcasm

please go away

Believe me, the least I see around is TKing. If TK happens, most of the time is unintentional.

I don't see a lot of intentional TKs, honestly. But yeah, it's not right, unless you know the guy you're going to TK has the intent to disrupt gameplay. If it's a new player (or someone who just doesn't know what's good) you really should explain how things work, and what is effective. Blowing their **** up won't help them in any way except frustrating them.

So people that have actually put time into the game and understand how it should be played should NOT be allowed to effect other peoples gameplay.

While people who have put no time in and have no idea how to play the game SHOULD be allowed to effect other peoples gameplay.

Nice logic there buddy.

Once again, this is a team game, if you think you should be allowed to do whatever the **** you want to the detriment of everyone around you, you are an entitled tosspot. Thats all there is to it.

If there's a sundy deployed where it shouldn't be, and it's preventing the deployment of a sundy where there SHOULD be one, then I'm going to blow it up. Sorry, but there are certain cases where TK'ing is better for the team and helps accomplish a larger objective.

I always ask, and if they don't listen, then so be it...

I haven't seen any " /re Sunder south of open field under snipers paradise rocks please move your lights are on." Regional is so seldom used well for anything. Normally a sunder in the wrong place is moved once the owner is told about it. Drivers however last night you sucked.

Craptacular TK sunder battle on Connery last night. The voice argument made me feel funny inside.

On the contrary actually. NO ONE should be entitled is actually what I'm saying. Just cause one knows better doesn't mean they can just go around TK-ing at will.

This needs to be left to SOE and only SOE. The bottom line is NO one is more entitled than the other person, which is why you cannot justify intentional TK-ing ever.

Its the only way to preserve some modicum of order. And this was already necessary with the stupid warp gate antics of flipping planes, so hopefully SOE acts sooner rather than let this sort of behavior go unchecked. The end of this if left alone won't be pretty...

Are you aware how far your head is up your ****?

By letting teamkilling farmers and crap head sunderers carry on as is, they are effecting EVERYONE around them. Something you keep saying they shouldnt be able to, but then saying that they should.

There are only 3 options;
Talk to them, which never works.
Report them, which never works.
Remove them, which works 100% of the time.

You claim that the teamkill negatively effecting one player is a bad thing. What about the 20-30-50 whatever players that person is effecting, they dont matter to you?

No of course they dont, because you are one of those **** head sunderers or lib/pod farmers. Your idiocy/selfishness is impacting other peoples enjoyment. You do not have the right to do that. Now by stopping you, I am negatively impacting your enjoyment, true. But you waived that right when you started doing it to others.

Just goes to show the level of maturity around here... go ahead and make assumptions. I hate driving the freakin bus and almost never pull it, plus I fly like crap so I'll just be a flying duck for them to shoot at.

But you totally fail to address the slippery slope aspect. You can justify TKs all you want, but if its condoned at all, people will just start abusing TKs. Read some of the other examples of why people TK and feel its ok, besides your own. Allowing intentional TK at all opens a whole can of worms with it.

As for the one person negatively affecting others, you don't have to be sheep - just respawn at the warp gate and go do something somewhere else! Instead of threatening to TK them, just leave them all by themselves. You'll see how fast they run!

I think one nearby dude can deal with a single 15s respawn timer to get rid of a poorly placed sunderer. When he respawns, he'll even have the benefit of doing so in a better place, and will no longer have to run for 45 seconds every time he dies, or be thrown into a horrible meatgrinder position where he can't get anything done.

They wont run, most players will farm leaving the sunderer alive, and for the farming libs/esf-s, they arent going to run if you leave them, how stupid are you?

The air farmer especially, if everyone just stops spawning near him, he just flies to the next place and carries on.

I have just spent 10-15 minutes fighting at this base, it is an enjoyable fight, I am doing what I can to cause havok as an LA. Some tosspot comes along and parks his sunderer in the middle of a field or whatnot. This causes half the enemy to farm the idiots spawning on the sunderer, and because the defenders are no longer actually being attacked, I have to deal head on with the defenders who are "above" farming, which often turns into a wildly uneven fight. And when I do die, the nearest spawn is 300+m away and I have to run a gauntlet of rocket spam to get back into the fight.

Anyway, that fight has basically been ruined, all my efforts thusfar now mean nothing. You claim that I should just bugger off and leave those without the good sense to do the same to thier fates.

You feel that is in some way superior to just stealthily c4ing the **** out of the sundy and then having the fight carry on as normal, thus allowing everyone to get back to enjoying the game.

Your logic..?!

Collateral Damage.

When the spearhead of the zerg has been blunted by a terribly placed sunderer (for our example, lets say a Sunderer that managed to get caught inside the shields of a Bio Lab vehicle spawn), you have to admit that it is affecting a significant number of players, and you can't just say "go somewhere else".

Do you know how "useful" a sunderer in that location is? Its one of the most harmful areas to deploy. If the shields come back up, it, and everyone else who spawns with it, is essentially trapped in the shields with nowhere to go. If left unchecked long enough, its quite possible a significant number of players will respawn within the shielded area, and be unable to participate in the combat.

In such a situation, it is necessary to destroy the sunderer, no matter the protests of the owning player.

As far as your statements of a slippery slope; you do realize that the slippery slope argument is a fallacy unless you can clearly state that X -> Y -> Z. Failure to do so means you are making a fallacious argument. I personally disagree that you have shown how a well ordered set of sunderer placement criteria can lead to slightly more justified TKing.

If the line of battle is clearly 100m ahead, the enemies have been forced behind shields, and a sunderer is in position waiting to deploy, refusing to undeploy your sunderer is improper behavior that hinders the faction.

I will grant that many of the boasted stories in this thread of how players have handled TKing is often innapropriate, but that partly adds to the necessity for a set of guidelines for when a sunderer should be TKd.

You've yet to provide anything other than hand-waving, melodramatic claims about TK abuse. A bit ironic to take us to task about making assumptions, then proceeding to make them yourself. If you actually provide some data about TK abuse, we can go from there. Until then your argument is unsubstantiated.

Earlier today, we had a Sundy deployed inside a tech plant's shields...with one side on top of the vehicle pad. The side where 90% of people were spawning, incidentally. The guy did it so that people would spawn on the pad and instantly die if someone called in a vehicle...thus making them spawn again. More exp!

There ARE reasons to TK a Sundy, and today was most definitely one of them. We almost lost the fight thanks to people not being able to spawn and survive until we killed it and got a new Sundy in there with better placement...

Edit: Hint, if you see a Sundy spawned inside a shielded area with 15-20 skull icons around it...yeah...

I ran over a player last night, flying down a hill in a Sunderer.. he was trying to cross in front with an ATV, and I couldnt stop. He got angry, came back with his ESF and rocketpodded my *** several times in retaliation. I calmly and cooly (well maybe not so calmly and cooly, but I didnt retaliat) /report his ***. Too bad I can't include a reason though..

Far more selfish is the behavior of the Sundy driver to deploys poorly resulting in dozens of deaths, a single death and a Sundy down isn't nearly as big of a loss as the many deaths incurred by bad Sundy placement and the fairly decent chance that the faction will either lose the facility/fail to capture the facility as a result. If the Sundy placement is such that it's just leading infantry into a terrible unnecessary slaughter then I can't blame some of those infantry thrown into the teeth of a meatgrinder for tanking things into their own hands.

I've mentioned before that there should be a better mechanic to deal with Sundy placement then there currently is and that with sufficiently poor survivability withing 10-30s of spawning at a friendly Sundy another should be able to deploy in it's circle and undeploy the poorly placed one. Until then TK can sometimes be the only way to save a facility or an attack on one.

If people are doing that then certainly they should face punishment, what a lot of people are talking about is killing a Sundy that's placed in such a manner that it gets those that spawn there killed so they can anchor their own in a safer location. I will say that unless the players in question have already spawned from the 'poorly placed' Sundy and died unnecessarily a few times then they shouldn't resort to TKing, if they have... there comes a point where the butcher's bill for stupidity is enough that the elimination of a sundy and possibly a player or two that's nearby is worth it for the sake of the team.

Fixed.
They might think the same about you when you TK them.

Also..

Don't get me wrong, some TK's might be justified, like the example with the Sundy behind enemy shields, but one should always try to talk first. The person might not understand what they did wrong if you just "remove" them and therefore will do it again.

Self justice rarely ever did anything good because all people always think they are right.You TK someone because you think you are right and he will then TK you back because he thinks that he is right.
Leave that job to the sheriff SOE. He might be a bit slow sometimes and has to learn few things but....