Why Intentional TK (Especially Sundys) Is NEVER Right...

And you think people who use the alternate ammo pack are cheaters who should be banned?

This. There is no qualification for someone to decide what is a 'bad Sundy placement' and if intentional TKing is seen as acceptable in any case it will be seen as acceptable as the norm for any grievance, just see the first person I quoted.

Yes i do. What i did here was nothing like cheat at all, i didn't receive any boost/exp/cert/help in gameplay or any advantage at all.
This game is about teamplay. If they don't play teamplay (they throw me out of the sundy without any explanation), if they tk because "lol, it's fun" (they didn't need to roll over me) then they are toxik for the game and i SHOULD have a reward for punishing them. Actually, it would be nice to have in this game the right to tk someone that just tked you before (like 5 or 10 minutes). You don't have to do it (you can "forgive") but if it was on purpose you have the right to take revenge.

Or, maybe, the driver in cockpit view couldn't even see you anyway? Or, like you, they feel the TKing is fine if the other person did something they don't agree with? And that's the thing, everyone is going to have some reason they feel it is fine, when most of the time it was probably an accident, but it could have felt like it was intentional and some people would even think an accidental TK is deserving of a revenge TK.

I was sniping last night and had 2 situations where I'd probably be 'justified' to TK. The first was a guy throwing a mana turret right beside my position drawing sprays of bullets and heavy fire down on me. The second was a guy who knifed me in the back far away from the action. Maybe he hit the wrong button trying to reload? I doubt it, but what would me have coming out and headshotting him from 100m have accomplished anyway?

For clarification, people aren't always blowing the Sundy because of cheaters/hackers...it may simply be that the Sundy is in a spot where it's no longer safe and the driver refuses to move it.

It'd be nice if they did...I'm just not holding my breath. In PS1 we used to deal with people TK'ing with the excuse that they were 'spies' and that made a 'valid tactic'.

I've blown up 3 ally sunderers over the course of the game and all of them were deserving:
1.) An outfit was TK'ing people who spawned at their sunderer.
2.) Badly placed sunderer was being spawn camped by the enemies with the driver inside, refused to move it.
3.) Placing an important base offense sunderer into a hidden and protected location, some guy parked out in the open(Blocking any sunderers from deploying on both entrances to the base) and deployed following with, "f--- you got mine first".

People can argue it was wrong to do the third, but the guy was causing people to have to run further, plenty of people died from the cannon/rocket launcher/grenade/bullet spam on the sunderer, and he was proud because he got the spawn exp from each of them.

It gets me even more when these people having nothing besides AMS and stock guns on their sunderer. There are people like me who specifically dumped their certs into the sunderers to be able to place and handle them better specifically.

wow....if those 3xp per spawn are that important, someone needs to get a life and/or grow up.

Not gonna lie. I TK for Three Reasons. Careless Tank drivers who like to think they can drive up on an infantry hill and crush their own guys along the way. People who scream out for medic then haul *** in the opposite direction once I start healing, and those annoying kids who play bad quality music over their mic. But I have not, nor will I ever TK a Sunderer regardless of where it's placed.

There is a lib flying around base X with its gunners farming kills. Those gunners teamkill any friendlies who they feel are "stealing" thier well deserved XP.

The pilot should land and make them get out, and if they wont, purposefully crash the aircraft. But he wont of course.

Are you saying it is wrong for me to remove that lib, and thus improve everyone elses enjoyment?



There is a sunderer placed in an incredibly stupid area, everyone spawning on it is getting farmed off immidiately. They arent even trying to pop the sundy, because the XP from killing fools is better. The general PS2 player is too stupid to pick another spawn, and that sunderer prevents anyone from putting a sunderer in a good spot for some inane reason.

I tell the sunderer owner about the predicament, which he either ignores or spouts some nonsense at me.

Are you telling me I am wrong to remove that sunderer, thus allowing a better sundy driver to put a better spawn and so denying the enemy free XP, preventing players that dont know any better from getting cheaply killed and finally helping my entire faction by making the attack go more smoothly?


You must be insane.

I hope all the children TKing other peoples sundies so they can deploy theirs in the exact same spot - get a permanent BAN!

You are wrong and are dong nothing but killing the game - bring back the old days when players had some honour - this generation of gamers will never understand teamwork and were obviously brought up wrong by their low-life brain dead parents.

Yes you are wrong - because the placement might be stupid - but guess what - if it is stupid, people will either get bored being farmed and spawn somewhere else, an enemy actually playing the game to hold/capture the base will destroy it or it will just continue giving the enemy XP - oh no end of the WORLD!!! lol - it's a game ffs

Why are people like you soo bothered about what other people do?... a new sundie driver might not understand what he is doing - and even if he did just dump his sundie somewhere daft - so what?.... it's none of your damn business - his placement might be above your level of understanding and better than your placement because he is accounting for survivability, strategic placement of enemy generators and defences, he may understand how quickly the enemy identify's a sundie deployment in the 'standard' places that people like you think it should be... to go around TKin friendly sundies is beyond stupid.

The entire battle might only last 10 - 15 mins - so who gives a S*** if some noob deployed in sundie in the wrong place for a while - get a life - or get banned - and sod off to another game - we don't need egotistical players with your childish attitude in PS2 - you are not wanted here!

Unfortunately, any concept beyond "what's in it for MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?" seems foreign at this point.

I tk Sunderer when they are on the wrong place. Biolab for example. I hate sundis which arent near a teleporter or jumppad. They are obv blocking the spots.

Really, you're worried about "innocent bystanders" getting killed? Death means nothing in this game. A proper sundy deployment can mean all the difference, as can a bad one. It is okay to remove one, only question is when and how. A few people dying in the process hardly matters when the place you're attacking kills 100 of your dudes every minute.

I would never do it personally as I don't care enough, but TK'ing poorly placed sunderers is completely valid, one windowlicker shouldn't be able to hamper you're empires attacks with immunity.
People should learn to deploy in an area that benefits the push rather than 100m away from a base with 0 cover just to rake in the tiny spawn xp asap.

TK'ing a sundy so you can deploy you're own is a d1ck move though.

I'm pretty forgiving of FF since I know my camo tends to set off the jumpy ones - it sucks when I'm on a streak but what can you do? Of course, if you 'accidentally' shoot me when my freakin HA shield is on I don't even know what to say. There's still only been a few occasions where someone pissed me off to the point where I had to teach him a lesson...apparently teamkilling one person over and over never gets you weapon locked, which is kinda funny.

I have not seen malicious TKing like stealing sunderer spots or generator overloads yet though. If that happened to me I'd probably hunt that guy down all day long.

This **** happened to me today. Some dude put a sunderer on the middle of the Tech plant (blocking the passage for vehicle, FORCING them to move AROUND the tech plant to reach the other side). I said on Region "Move your sunderer to the back, its safer". Was totally ignored. Then I had to say "Move your sunderer to the back or we will TK your sunderer", then he starts telling how I'm gonna be reported for being a tool, etc. I waited. 5 minutes I waited for him to move it. Then I did what he didn't, put C4 and blew up his sunderer, so I was forced to put mine on the back, which is MUCH safer for the sunderer and the troops, while being easier to defend A and the SCU generator.

EVEN worse, the dude, probably the same, ******** as he WAS, put another sunderer once mine was blown up cause people have failed to protect the shield generators. He now decides its a good idea to have a rearmament sunderer next to our vehicle pad. Now people start taking vehicles out and killing our infantry. Another dude said for him to move and he wouldn't, for a meager 2~5 XP per spawn.

So, in two situations in less then 10 minutes, 2 badly positioned sundeders were hurting the team and the owner was all pissy cause he didn't want to move it and lose that ridiculous XP. Those of us who TK sunderers due to bad positioning DON'T WANT TO STEAL YOUR XP. The amount is so small I prefer to drive a Vanguard in order to help better the facility. If you won't move your sunderer to a better position to help your team, and worse, you are HURTING your team thanks to that badly positioned sunderer, YOU ARE entitled to be TKed for it.

We do this very seldomly, but once I say I will TK the sunderer, and the dude doesn't care, we DO IT. One time I told someone to move the sunderer or it would be TKed, and he moved, and got his XP. EVERYONE was happy. It's not wrong to TK a sunderer that is badly positioned for it hurts more then helps, and the driver is ignoring.

We need a position on this from the GMs and Devs, cause sometimes this actually holds down a whole defense or attack, and the player who is in command of the sunderer wont listen AT ALL. This is actually a gameplay mechanic. Griefing starts when you see ALL your sunderers be blown up by the same dude all the time.

Understood - but if its truly no longer safe as you state - how long do you expect it to last there anyways?

Intentional friendly TK is bad behavior that should never be condoned under any circumstances. Without a zero tolerance towards this, all that will result is people starting to feel intentional TK is cool, and there's always a way to find some sort of justification. The end result is anarchy and chaos, if we allow this slippery slope to continue.

I did state somewhere else that I believe SOE should refund all AMS certs to everyone, and force everyone to re-AMS their Sundys at a higher price. Thinking 200 certs is a better point - we don't want it so there's not enough AMS out there, but it should at least stop most newcomers from trying to AMS farm XP (which is a terrible idea anyways, its almost never worthwhile unless you park it in the right spot LOL and even then its probably such a hotzone, it won't last).

Maybe they could put in some kind of system where if enough players go up to a deployed sunderer and press some 'voting' option in the loadout menu it could force it to undeploy for a few seconds, but this would be extremely abusable by outfits etc. But if they really wanted to 'steal XP' they could just TK it.

A better, simpler solution: GET RID OF THE XP GAINS ON RESPAWN FROM SUNDERERS!

A lot of people drive the sunderer cause they see those magical 2~5 XP coming VERY fast in a contested zone, and think they are making bazillion certs due to it. I do feel this is something very good for engineers, but people are abusing this by actually racing and putting the sunderer up first ONLY to get that meager XP.

The easiest solution to it, and with a MUCH better response to it would be to not award XP in anyway to the respawns on sunderers.

Kinda depends upon who's shooting at it. Many will intentionally spam it with HE which will kill the spawners but not damage the Sundy significantly.

don't get me wrong, NoctD - I hate TK'ers too. I'm just saying that sometimes it's unintentional and sometimes it's necessary to prevent feeding the enemy XP. I always try and avoid "under any circumstances" rules because there are almost always exceptions. Hard and fast rules usually come back to bite you in an unexpected fashion.

I dunno, man...I got 200 certs in a few hours gameplay just the other night. I think training, rather than increased cost, is the solution to misplaced AMS'