Good for Ground, Bad for Air, a review of the HA G2A Rocket Launcher

I love my G2A rockets when I am playing HA for the only reason that they fly in a straight line (almost) when fired. It turns you into a tank sniper for a mere 1000 certs and is totally worth the 20% damage reduction. Using them against air units, however, is an exercise in futility. I only seem to hit with every one of every eight rockets I shoot. The break-down is as follows:

1. ~4-5 seconds: Acquire lockon presuming a clear line of fire
2. ~3 seconds: ESF is notified of lockon, hold fire until the ESF calls my bluff or deploys flares (usually deploys flares)
3. 5 seconds: Lockon immunity
4. ~4-5 seconds: Reacquire lockon
5. ~3-10 seconds of travel time until the rocket hits

If it were that simple I wouldn't have a problem with this procedure, but a number of complications can ensue. For each step:

1. Any tree branch, enemy unit, allied unit (including infantry that happen to walk in front of me) or terrain feature resets the lockon cooldown. This is also presuming that nothing is shooting at me, including the aircraft. I really don't have any bones to pick here, it seems fair enough to me.

2. Some pilots are smart enough to wait a few seconds before releasing flares. This is skilled play and I applaud it. Some pilots don't give a damn and complete their attack run as normal. The third response is to immediately bug out or take evasive maneuvers, but I rarely see this happen until the attack run is complete.

3/4/5 Deploying flares essentially gives a pilot a 9-10 second immunity to my G2A launcher. Considering it already takes 4-5 seconds to setup the first time, the pilot has about 15+ seconds to disregard my missile fire during his attack run. Because the lockon range is about 500m (I can't source this) this gives the pilot plenty of time to run in, shoot a full salvo of missiles, do a U-turn or continue on the same vector and be out of my range before I can respond. In addition, any skilled pilot can easily dodge the missiles without flares, or simply use afterburners and outrun them. In fact, because of the amount of travel time in step five, I have seen ESF's who are going in a straight line or a slow curve have enough time to redeploy their flares for the second missile (only if they have it fully certed it, of course).

To add insult to injury, it takes 3 of these rockets to down a certed ESF. I have been in a squad with 4 or 5 people with G2A missiles and while it is satisfying to take one down (after all, ESFs -are- taking a dump on everything) it happens far less often than required to be a true "deterrent" to air, as they keep coming back and flareing/afterburning away from/dodging the missiles, or disappearing for a minute while they repair the damage from the lucky one or two that landed. Essentially, I feel that I have used ~30 seconds of my time to do nothing more than force the ESF to spend more time turning around before coming back.

While I have a lot of respect for those pilots who can handle their craft, it seems that this "lockon timer -> flare timer -> lockon timer" business, combined with the fact that the missiles are slower than the aircraft when using afterburner makes it too difficult to counter enemy air, even with a coordinated group of G2A missiles users. Asking a minimum of 3 people to dedicate a few minutes of their time to harass ESFs doesn't seem to much to me, but when the ESFs can complete their attack run while surviving the attention of so many dedicated players, oftentimes without receiving a scratch, is rather unbalanced in my opinion.

My proposal? Simply increase the speed of the missiles and reduce the lockon time to ~2 seconds. Keeping the missile turn rate the same would reward skillful piloting and the flares would still provide an "Oh-****!" button to an unwary pilot who happened to get too close to a G2A carrier (or reward a good pilot who came in low and fast), while the increased speed would remove the "press Shift to lose missile" nonsense. Keeping the damage the same would still require teamwork on the part of the infantry which isn't to much to ask in my opinion. No one should expect to solo a Lightning tank as an infantry unit without extemporaneous circumstances or careful preparation.

But no one should, when using a lock on G2G missile, expect the Lightning to nullify the locking effect for a quarter of a minute, run through the base, wipe out half their squad and then bury itself into an underground cavern and repair itself before popping back up again.

Without any numerical evidence to support this: air power right now feels a little Too Good, with the only deterrent being enemy air power. I rarely even equip my GtA launcher anymore. Planes usually fly out of lock range halfway through the lock; so I'm just standing around with an eyepiece on my face waiting to get shot up.

The G2A launcher should be mandatory. Life isn't all about every one of your shots getting you xp, there's alot to be said for helping your faction win by negating air dominance.

The more G2A launchers in the field, the larger and stronger the anti-air umbrella for your push, and the more likely you will take your objective.

Everytime I hear infantry crying that each rocket doesn't award them 300 xp for a esf kill, I want to equip my pods and farm the heck out of them.

Of course those same infantry have the gaul to cry about the rocket pods... while not carying the one piece of kit that could save them...

Do you realize how helpfull it is for friendly esf to have an area where friendlies are putting up a G2A screen???

You grunts need to quit worrying so much about your kill xp and start thinking a bit more about the "big picture"

dual-bursters are effective too, yet people cry that they're worthless.

The primary purpose of AA is deterrent. The problem is there's little to no point reward to play as AA air deterrent.

If an ESF doesn't bug dafuq out when I open up on him, he's in for a world of hurt (read: Respawning at WG to pull a new ESF)

most of the time.. they start taking flak and they bug out... I might get a 30xp assist reward if a friendly ESF follows them and finishes them off.

Result? Our ground force is protected, I'm in a MAX (which once the air is cleared you bet ur rear end I'm grabbing my anti-ground weapons) and I got very few points for the effort... BUT mission success, so long run it's worth it really.

However, because I can't get good points from doing it, I never dedicate myself to it. I only grab AA MAX as a quick reaction and would never play a Skyguard unless I was playing with a bunch of friends in an armor column and felt like taking one for the team.

Lack of point incentives is the ONLY problem with AA IMO, after having played on both ends.

The lack of immediate point incentive is great. It keeps people from recognizing the long term benefits of HA carying AA. NC and TR need not employ such tactics, please continue solowolfing. I catch a Vanu in the field without a G2A launcher prepare for an earfull.

considering the G24 is 700certs or 700SC I hardly consider that a fair expectation of all heavies.

Additionally, the G2G lockon is quite useful for longer range engagements vs tanks where the slow trajectory of deadfire makes them easy to dodge.

But yes, AA weapons are invaluable... and the G2A launcher only has minimal negative effect to your anti-ground capability (FWIW: The default deadfire launcher does do more damage as well)

The problem, as I stated, is that people have little incentive to play AA other then that it helps the team... but you are quite literally 'taking on for the team' as you will significantly reduce your potential XP/hr rate. the GtA launcher has the smallest effect on point earning since you can continue to function like a HA while carrying it. MAXes and Skyguards on the other hand have abhorable XP gains.

IMO the Heavy Assault G2A launcher needs to be widely available, but not too powerful.

As the only thing plain-infantry have against aircraft, it should cost no more than 100-250 certs. Yet at the same time, it costs no game-resources and people can insta-switch to it at a terminal, so it can't deal too much damage. (Imagine a Sunderer that deploys in a field, and 8 people jump out and switch to G2A launchers...)

While I agree that deterrence isn't rewarding like destruction, it's much better than a feeling of helplessness. I'd rather have half the cake than none of it.

No need to swap. The speed and direct fire nature of the weapon means no matter what your grunts tell you, they will hit more and thus do more damage with the g2a. Every grunt thinks they're Chuck Norris, the reality is far more Gomer Pile. Straight and fast rockets connecting are better than 25% more damage flying into the ground.


Please feel free to disagree, unless your wearing purple.

They are not worthless by themselvs. The are worthless concidering the alternatives.

Dual burster max can do nothing but shoot at planes. Bursters are a true sidegrade, you give up everything to be AA. THen why are they only on par with other forms of AA?

If you give up every role for AA, you should be VERY good at it. G2A launchers are not the only weapon an HA can hold, so they are still a viable AI soldier as well. Hence why I think lock ons shouldnt be that great. But flack? No lockon, small magazines, AA as the only option and crazy bullet drop? Flack should demolish aircraft, and it does not.

Hey hotshot, lemme give you a pro-tip....

MAXes can change their loadouts at any terminal (including S-AMS terms)

So you only give up your ground capability while you have your burster arms on... clear the skies and swap back

If 1 dual-burster MAX could insta-dominate any fighter that even entered into his airspace... this game would go back to tankside. Their effectiveness at present feels just fine for me, and I have zero problems getting my hits to land on target at what I consider reasonable range for my AA. Any ESF that doesn't immediately leave that area upon getting fired on WILL die... and if I bid my time and let him close in, slow down, and try to line up his RP strafe run... I can kill him before he even has a chance to get away.

The balance is perfectly fine... the problem is simply noone plays it.... and the vast majority of those I see that do, do so poorly.

Rule #1: Don't shoot at targets outside your effective range.

I've seen 5-6 AA players in an area before... that airspace was decidedly bad for the enemy.

The problem, as I've been reiterating over and over and over again, is that the primary objective of AA is to keep air from being able to effectively operate in an area. Now with bad pilots that can mean kills, but if it's too easy to kill a good pilot who tries to break away and evade, well then we'd have a broken mechanic.

Instead we simply need to award points for successfully deterring aircraft. I think the best way would be to simply award 1xp per 2pts of dmg when using an AA weapon vs an Air target (specifically that combination) and then see what happens.

I'm willing to bet we'd start seeing a lot more AA in the field over time which would allow us to actually properly compare the effectiveness of AA.

A single AA or 2 vs a swarm of enemy Air? of course they AA should get dominated. It's simple numbers.

What I mean is that if you have an infantry force near an equipment-terminal or deployed Sunderer, it is possible for a significant group to all switch classes and light up the sky whenever necessary, and then return to whatever they were doing (as Infiltrators, Light Assaults, Medics, Engineers, or even HA with other launchers if that's their preference) without much disruption.

While I'd love to see that kind of behavior, we still can't ignore the strategic issue of air/ground/infantry resources, Charging a resource cost per rocket is obviously dumb, so...

Hey hotshot I want to see you swap arms while I shoot you in the face. Dual burster removes the MAXs current AI/AV capability. Unlike HA rockets, AA rockets can be used for AA AV and AI...AND cost less certs, no recourse cost either. Better bank for the buck. That is why burster MAXs are UP

You can swap the arms on a Max... didn't know that.. very cool

As an aside... AA Maxes are absolutely bawler at defending Sunderors. Im so glad on my server the boys in purple seem to just know the drill... AA Max for point defence and tons of G2A all around the AO... Everyone is so concerned about kill xp kill xp on the forums... if your working as a team correctly the base flipping xp at speed is quite a bit more... also... the kills come easier if everyone does thier jobs and quits worrying about it... anywhoo... sorry for rantz... hope I helped someone

Except my dual-burster can actually kill the aircraft instead of just making them AB away to break the lock.

And, uhm, I'd never roll a Dual-Burster unless I had a squad.... so I don't expect to be getting shot in the face while performing AA. I'm behind the inf front line protecting their backs from airstrike, and protecting the Sundy from bombardment. Once we clear the skies and get ready to assault the base, I can either swap back to another class or just equip my AI+AV arms.

Oh, and resource cost? pfffft Infantry resources end up in abundance. Once you stockpile your consumables you have 750 resource at almost all times. dropping 100 for a quick MAX is hardly a commitment.

FWIW: I also edited the post you quoted and added a fair bit of additional input into the conversation. Quoting below

The best part is that with custom loadouts (which you can rename too!) you can make this swap very VERY fast.

I have 2 loadouts for my MAX currently, named "Anti-Air" and "Anti-Ground"

When I get a second AI arm I'll have a dedicated "Anti-Infantry" loadout

Doubt I'll get the second AV arm........

Yesterday I was defending Bio Lab along with lots of VS. We had pushed the enemy back to the entrance. But then ESF started coming in and rocket spamming the entrance. I couldn't get a lock on without taking a rocket in the face.

I suggest that depending on the distance between you and the ESF the lock on timer should change. No ESF should be able to rocket spam facility entrances

Even though I'm a Reaver pilot with rocket pods, I agree with the above statements that you all should be getting points for successfully damaging aircraft with anti-air, and you should be given extra points if that aircraft leaves the combat zone for 'successful deterration of aircraft'. It's all too easy for me to use my high speed airframe and boost away to make repairs... while using flares to negate lock ons..

In fact I think they should probably reduce the lock-on immunity to 3 seconds.

I think if that was implemented it would be a lot more fun for everyone involved.

G2A payoff is extremely poor. And don't give me that "big picture" line. I've watched too many liberators take a dump on a contested location shrugging off multiple G2A rockets (the ones the flares didn't take care of I guess), only to slowly turn and duck behind the hills to repair and return for more.

G2A needs to hit alittle harder and be given a chance to crit, perhaps it hits a vital area, however you need to realistically explain it.

The bottom line is its almost not even a deterrant and to a good Liberator pilot, it can be ignored while a substantial payload is delivered, almost indefinitely if there are only a few HA's packing a G2A. Increase the default G2A ammo load to 5 and allow cert upgrades from there.

If you must, upgrade the G2A through certs offering faster rockets, higher payload, and lower lock-on timers. But as it stands, air dominates. Its a one-sided fight that only serves to promote hitting the map and redeploying elsewhere.

Well, the balancing is basically infantry cost nothing, ESF's cost 180+ resources that will be back before the timer is up on said ESF. IF resources actually meant anything, I would be inclined to agree with this. Unfortunately, there's about a 2% chance for a solo HA to actually take an ESF out on his own... but then again the power of infantry is abundantly clear in these situations.. a squad that has half or even 3/4 of their squad switch to grounders can clear the air out fairly fast. Or at least make them think twice before they come in and faceroll all over their keyboard to rofflepod everything. This is the balance they're working for, deterrance rather than dominance, and Air does need to serve a purpose other than flying bags of XP, only ESF's can think of them as that. G2A launchers aren't the greatest, but when used in numbers can solve the problem of too much enemy Air. Same goes for burster Max units. Coordinated strikes will resolve the air problem, expect to destroy air solo.. you're gonna have bad time unless they're afk hovering or just that dumb.

Too bad Skyguards cost the same amount but can't destroy anything, but that's fine for most pilots.. the easier to kill the better for their K/D and egos.

You're kidding right?