My very own get the players back thread

Posted elsewhere, making my own thread on it. Worst they can do is ignore it or say no right?

The first two alone would get me back. I think all the rest would get thousands to come back...

1. Get rid of CTF -or- move it to it's own dedicated bases and return existing ones.
2. Fix the cloak (500ms+ decloak time or put cloak on a weapon switch mechanic)
3. Do a surprise return of old Esamir
4. Get rid of orbital strikes outright
5. Re-buff infantry AV weapons and Re-buff vehicle anti-infantry weapons both to pre CAI levels.
6. Move cert gain to a 1.5x multiplier, permanently. People don't have another 10 years to get leveled up.
7. Consolidate some servers.
8. Bring back the cat ears put them on sale (I don't care, but it was a dumb decision others hated that should be reversed)

When ALL of that is done..

• Run a "Planetside Classic" promo to bring old members back.
• Make a month of double XP weekends for all, with a triple members on the final weekend.
• Put all bundles on sale with extra members discount. Sell it like it's your last chance. game gonna be here another 10.

I have enough work on the resistance of the Construction System. And getting rid of the current respawn system with those RedeploySide moments that are not interesting and constant fights in the same places. In order to get rid of the fact that they had just captured the hex, all the invaders redeployed and almost immediately took that hex without resistance. Probably the equipment resources that are farmed in this way are to blame Outfits .

Agreed on the cloak. It needs a delay for firing more to help the clientside issues.

CTF in some fashion doesn't feel bad, current implementation is clunky adjusting something about it like where the conduits are or something might make it feel less terrible. Dunno, something besides sit on point and hold isn't bad for variety just right now CTF is kinda a "either you overwhelmingly crush on it, catch no pop, or you can't win it." theres no feeling of back and forth or anything its all or nothing often times is the vibe.

Agreed on AV weapons, with cortium pulling it is very easy to mass lightnings and ESFs now. This only amplifies hesh farming and A2G ESF issues.

I disagree on removing OS outright, I would rather the craft time be raised and limit of 1 in the outfit inventory. Make it 30-45 minutes to craft one so that using an OS from an outfit likely will mean they DONT have one later in alerts or anything. It would significantly reduce the number going off. Base OS is fine because honestly if you want to prevent it, hit that base. With how everyone claims it is easy to tear bases down, DO IT THEN.

I'd add that A2G needs more tweaking still. Last few weeks its been just downright a struggle if you're not actively having multiple bursters around that theres 3-4 A2G ESFs almost constantly at primetimes, and with base pulling theres really no cost to them overall. Wish I could get my c4/grenades for cortium instead of nanites!

Wow, a time I agree with you Jabba for a change. LoL. Yes, OS's are the most moronic thing I've seen added since coming back to the game. I'll go another step further, just as moronic, the Flail and Bastions. There's not always a spawn point nearby. You end up spawning at the nearest spot and running to where the action is. It's hard enough doing it without another player getting you. There you're taken out by OS or Flail spam. Can we say GGRRRRRRR!!!!!! It's gotten to where I say SCREW THIS, and I log.

Fine then, have Stalkers BUT eliminate invisible flashes. FIX THE DAMN CLOAK and eliminate that flickering crap.

Omg, yes, weapons. STOP NERFING EVERYTHING! Came back to the game, the weapons I had, just to see I'd was better off insulting enemy players rather than shooting at them. Total JUNK. The AMR's came out. They worked. 'Favorite Players' cried. They are now JUNK. STOP NERFING EVERYTHING!!!!

The servers? Let's get a few of them working properly before we merge any. Yikes. What was done that caused them to start lagging so bad?

Honestly. I remember a time where there were TONS OF PLAYERS. You could choose a continent to play on. Today, depending on the time of day, 5 or 6 bases on continent you are forced to play on. Logic should finds it's way in at this point. "WHAT" was done between then & now that chased all the players away? Eliminate it. It's that simple.

I agree 100% with points (1), (3), (6), (7).
I agree 169% with point (8).

Regarding point (2), I would much rather the "Infiltrator" be split into "Sniper" and "Spy".
Regarding point (4), I would rather keep OS but rework the way they are granted. The current system rewards OSs to Zergfits and hyper-passive construction players. I would envision a more skill-based system whereby a certain kill or score streak grants you an OS.
Regarding point (5), I would much rather have MBTs and Lightnings receive coaxial Kobalts or Basilisks. Or maybe even have MBTs wield two secondary guns. I would love to have my gunner with an E540 Halberd and a G30 Walker simultaneously, or some other AV/AI or AV/AA combination.

Regarding the post-reform marketing, yeah, I agree 100%.
This game could use a revival.
Such a "revival" would most likely require a marketing campaign of sorts.

I agree with you 100% Jibba. A lot of this makes sense to have done. I believe just removing CTF its been wanted by the community for years now and if they wanted to put a different play style they should of used the LLU system from PS1. That created some fun fights having to defend that sucker in the middle of a forest lol. Another idea is to keep Magriders from driving up mountains and destroying enemy armor by sitting on a mountain that no other vehicle other than aircrafts can get to. I mean honestly I wouldn't even mind seeing base building go.

Naw OS are bad and should of never even been put in. Not to mention how annoying they are. Honestly they just need to revert the game to 2013-2014 and start from scratch again.

1: I think my idea’s on CTF are clear but I think I have a way to get you on board as well.

We’ve been doing King of the Hill for years and we do need some variation in them. Still that doesn’t mean CTF has to completely deviate from it. Here’s the barest bone CTF you could add to the game:

- the points are all inactive.
- you can buy a flag at any infantry terminal.
- bring it to the point, it is now captured and active for your team and a countdown will start normally.

This is just the king of the hill gameplay but it adds the flag carrying part to make it a bit more interesting. From there you can make the flag carrying part more unique to make the actual flag carrying experience more interesting. Visibility of the flag, nanite cost, the way its picked up, the way its removed by the opposition and more can all enhance the part where you bring the flag to a point and make it an entertaining part of the game.


2: absolutely agreed.

3: having multiple layouts and versions of continents should be the norm. It gives the devs the option to make bases you only see during a zerg down a lane and have an actual fight there rather than a spawncamp. Gets people out of the drag of fighting at the same bases over and over again.

4: I don’t think entirely removing them is the solution. But making sure there is time to counter a user or protect yourself should be a core feature.

5: I prefer a focus of nanites destroy nanites. Keep current infantry AV weapons as-is, they are good enough for a costless AV option if a nanite-costing array of infantry weapons becomes available. Do it right and tanks are allowed to be much more lethal to infantry as well. Although I do want to stress that it should NOT be with AOE. Using AOE as anti-infantry tools is just not fun and too open to skill-less farming. Instead add weapons like auto-guns and co-axial machine guns available.

6: I used to think this wasn’t necessary, but considering the bloat of weapons and gear we’ve gotten over time it would be nice if that cert gain was stepped up so players can get decent enough gear and aren’t boned if they make a wrong choice.

7: sure I guess

8: why not?

Some follow up thoughts:
I think CTF could work if the base was designed for the ground up for it.

BUT.

This is a post about getting players back. You want to do that? Get rid of CTF outright.

Figure out how to make it work later. Get rid of it now.

Orbital strike is in the same boat.
You could run in circles for years (we have!) trying to tweak it and get it right. Limiting strikes in an area, making base OS versus pocket OS different, giving "orbital" cannons an actual orbit so they can only fire along a sine pattern at specific times. Lots of ideas. But overall... want players back? Knock that crap off.

Tweak new esamir? Maybe even bring back a biolab? Add teleporters to containment sites? Sure sure... but no. Just put the old Esamir back and be done. This is a SHOCKING move to do and news of it will ripple through the community of Ex players.

nanite focus AV weapons... go on, I'm listening

But for now: Vehicles should massacre infantry. Massacre them. Until it's close quarters with cover, and infantry can maneuver behind them. Then vehicles should be toast.

The CAI method of reducing lethality between the two had the opposite effect. With lethality reduced it became an armor/protection contest. Between a guy in pants and a guy in a tank. So the lopsided infantry/vehicle balance got far worse.

Restore balance by raising lethality for both.

And another thing. HIT REG, HIT REG, HIT REG. This has always been a problem, why? Amerish is HUGE with this issue. Past couple weeks starting to see the same on Esamir.

"Damage" calculator. So messed up it's funny. Stalker with Hunter crossbow and explosive bolt ammo. Taking out or helping to take out tanks, sundies, max's, even some aircraft if low enough. But then, up against infantry, an absolute joke. I've lost count the number of times I came upon players, blasted them in the head, only to see I didn't even break their shield WHEN THEY KILLED ME? C'mon, are you freaking kidding me? It's a "grenade on a stick". Shots to the head, hell, body even, should be insta-kill. Same with the engineer's AMR's. After they were nerfed, seeing times where headshots aren't kills with them now.

Don't know what to call this. 'Favoritism', maybe? Seeing this a LOT lately. Yesterday there was a player, a heavy, Hossin, TR construction behind point A. Not only was he able to ignore fire from 3 spitfire turrets but 4 TR player also. He took out the turrets and 3 of the players before running off. Lag, right? Insert ridiculous reasons this happens here. While doing so, also ask why players are giving up on this game.

I understand where you are coming from. First outright removing the obviously broken stuff would be a good idea.

I still disagree that we need bases to be build up from the ground for CTF. The core of CTF is basically creating a VIP that needs to be brought to a specific location. Current bases are plenty good for that. You need a starting location, like a terminal, and an ending location that makes the journey fun and engaging for the attackers and defenders. This can be a hardpoint (specific places to collect and deliver flags, perhaps even a location to ‘activate’ the flag) and soft points (say a Sunderer could be part of the process as either delivery, activation or collection point of flags). From there there’s a dozen variations that would fit PS2’s base designs and PS2’s scale.

Nanite costing AV:

You can have two systems simultaneously that the game already used. Cost on usage (like grenades and C4) and cost on death (like a MAX suit). The advantage of the first is that you can carry it along as a just-in-case weapon. The advantage of the second is that you can resupply it for free at ammo boxes and terminals but lose it on a respawn.

The cost-on-use weapons would all fit the utility slot. They would NOT be multi-purpose, so C4 should be split into an AI and an AV variant.
The cost-in-death weapons would simply be an addition to your current loadout, or take a slot of an existing weapon or class item slot. For example you could have an engineer buy a lockpick to steal a vehicle that takes their repairgun slot.

Both types could have a large variation of weapons. Most would likely be improved versions of existing weapons and a few new weapons and tools too. Grenade launchers, LAW’s, rocketlaunchers, missile launchers with a variation of guidance options (although I despise fire-and-forget, make it maintain-aim weapons instead), flame/chemical throwers, lightning guns, plasma cutting tools, weapons that install viruses that cause damage or debilitate the target in some way, nanite weapons (hey if you can assemble a tank in seconds you can also program something to disassemble it, we even see it when wreckage and bodies are removed!), access to utility-based ANVIL’s to call in a variety of turrets, mini-flails or machines that launch low-yield AT mines into an area until destroyed etc.

And lets continue that list with non-lethal options so infantry can create conditions to survive against tanks (some that the tankies can use just as well to protect themselves). Various sizes and shapes of shield walls, the biggest one’s being ANVIL dropped, distortion field generators that make an area harder to see into the farther you are from it, weapons like the aforementioned virus that can debilitate a vehicle or a nanite bomb or mega EMP/concussion bomb that causes debilitating effects on the vehicle, support weapons like a mortar fired with a visual laser target designator that launches smoke or something like a debilitating nanite bomb and chemical throwers (glue guns, paint to screw over sensors).

Of course they don’t have to throw every idea here into the mix at once. But low hanging fruit would be to introduce more powerful versions of existing AV weapons.


And again I think vehicles should get more lethal against infantry, just with skillful weapons rather than AOE. Tanks should not massacre infantry unless infantry can pose a threat with nanite-bought weapons. I think that tanks should feel like swiss army knives, you have plenty of buttons available for it like X, B, G, space and shift. A tertiary RWS( Remote Weapons Station) with a small weapon against infantry and aircraft. Co-ax machine guns. The ability to change the effect of ammo (say an HE shell is turned into a spray of explosive pellets like UT’s flak gun). Auto-canons as a primary weapons option. Secondary weapons with auto-gun AI properties (an AI focused version of the Saron, Viper or Enforcer). The ability to deploy temporary cover/barricades. Equipment to reveal enemy infantry like a directional radar pulse or just a paintbomb that reveals all enemies caught in it through walls for a short time. Close-in mines (in WWII armored vehicles would have remote anti-infantry explosives on the edges which the crew could detonate if they thought enemy infantry was close or on top of them). A mine-clearing attachment (just imagine activating your chain-flail to clear mines and crush infantry caught in the zone) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_flail and


Again they shouldn’t do all of these immediately, the point is that there is no shortage of options to expand on the infantry vs vehicle and vehicle vs infantry dynamic.

Generally, most games lose player base when it curtails to the veteran player base, and not the new player issues.

Plenty of case studies on it .

Focus on new player experience and not tweaks long-term players want.

You're kind of conflating the issues of different genres of games.

The issue of new player experiences are generally reserved for games that focus on progression, and more specifically, games that push older content into triviality or uselessness, where players feel they aren't really playing the game until they catch up to everyone else.

Yes, don't ignore the new player experience, but this is a decade old game and it doesn't really fit the above issues; most of the game's issues affect both new and veteran player alike, even if the new player doesn't know why.

Not at all. Every game has this issue. We'll agree to disagree if you strongly feel this game is immune to the same issues that affect quite literally every game produced, but consider this:

Whether it's Mario Bros. 1, World of Warcraft, Modern Warfare, etc... genre simply does not matter. As a business model, you always want new customers because that means more products being sold, or subscriptions sold (in modern times). Companies with Games that sit without new customers will eventually go the way of the Dodo. You MUST, absolutely, MUST, get new customers in, and KEEP them in, to survive as a business.

Two of those you've listed are progression games (not to forget to mention live service, one of them even being F2P). I'm honestly curious what kind of theoretical patch you think Mario needs for the new player experience, and only the NPE.

I didn't say PS2 doesn't have issues retaining new players, I said that most of the issues with this game affect both new and veteran players. Also, specific to this game, it is the vets that keep it alive and always have. Especially with a population so small, their issues come first before you even think of bringing in new players (who will just leave after the new experience wears off anyway). This has been not only acknowledged by Wrel (that they don't have a problem getting new players, just retaining), but is proven time and time and time and time again, after every 'NPE' patch, and after every new BS content patch where they typically address zero issues and ruin the game's balance even further. You can even see the results of this yourself with the population data: https://ps2.fisu.pw/population/

We didn't get to 10 years on new players. We got this way on retaining existing players.

The number of accounts that have been created for this game are in the 8 figures. They came, they tried, they left. Some core group of players took a liking and remained. The playerbases has already been filtered into "interested" and "not interested" groups.

Right now we don't need efforts put into finding new players. We need to tap into that pool of "interested" players and get them to play again. Best way to do that is to fix that crap that made them leave to begin with.

Agreed.

CTF was the harbinger of death, a last chance of redemption for Planetside: Arena before it died.

CTF for PS2 is a terrible idea as a base capture mechanic replacement.

CTF should have either been a new Alert type with the flag being at the continents center base to also promote a KOTH style tug of war defense over the flags or CTF should have been accessible from Sanctuary and played on Koltyr and Desolation.

Cloak+Long Rifles(Snipers and Scouts)+Clientside+Serverside is so incredibly toxic for PS2 as a FPS.

It should have been stopped and fixed years ago, but sadly it wasn't and the retention rates for the average FPS player have shown how grave not handling it earlier has been.

Just destroy the Containment Sites and watch how much better Esamir flows.

Only the Outfit OS. Construction OS is fine and has restrictions and limitations.

https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Vehicle_armor_and_damage_resistance

https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Vehicle_armor_and_damage_resistance/Construction

You would be surprised how close the current state is to the pre-CAI state is with exceptions being a few weapons and resistance type outliers.

Agreed.

PS2 is over a decade old, the "cert economy" is a lame duck of an excuse.

Agreed.

PS2 should have 1 NA server(Emerald), 1 EU server, and Soltech.

The PS4 PS2 servers need to be shut down, they are dead.

Agreed.

Bring back all items that were removed from the store. All of them.

As a newer player (not a decade old), issues that stuck out to me most:

1. "hit reg" as y'all seem to call it. That experience where the system tells you that you landed a hit on a player, its in the effective range, but 0 damage was dealt. I don't really get angry like a lot of players do, but I could totally see people less experienced with games in general thinking that the opposing player was cheating or something when this occurs.

2. None of the non-MAX infantry AV weapons feel very effective barring C4. When playing heavy for example I only actually pull out the rocket launcher for tanks if there is nothing else to shoot at or I am in an area otherwise swarming with allies. The engineer MANA AV turret (which was a total waste of certs I am bitter about) has a range limit that makes it too dangerous to use. The explosive crossbow damage to vehicles is too low so its really only useful as an engineer sidearm to me. I guess tank mines are pretty good but have limited use cases. Most the time I just don't engage tanks if I am not in one.

3. CTF was very confusing because of how you had to capture the conduit first, then get the flag. At first I just avoided CTF bases because I didn't understand what I needed to actually do. They are still pretty annoying in low pop situations where you have say 1 on 1.

4. When in large fights I constantly have to have an escape plan drilled in my head for Orbital Strikes. Usually (since its typically at a spawn room) the plan consists of stepping into a teleport the moment I hear the warning. I do think Orbital Strikes are cool, but they could use some tweaking. Honestly just a longer delay on it so players have more time to escape would be a suitable nerf. I understand the value of being able to force players out of a fortified position, but sometimes when you happen to be at the center of the radius you can run away full speed and still die to fall damage after it send you flying.

Overall, I feel like there is some common ground with new player vs veteran problems and where they intersect is likely what needs to be focused on first.

Good input.

Bump. I see a lot of similar threads. Seems there is a lot of consensus.

CTF, Cloak, Something about Esamir/containment, orbitals, consolidate servers