[Suggestion] Removing map quickpull for vehicles was a bad idea.

So the general gist of the people defending it is "vehicles give players a crap time so they should deal with the same"

This is a dumb argument. I'll repeat something that should the the most core part of the game, something people seem to forget time and again.


MAKE IT FUN

If vehicles arent enjoyable to fight, suggest ways to make them enjoyable to fight. Dont suggest to drag the game down by making it less fun for everyone.

Sparta, yay.

I guess there isnt any point trying to argue with someone that thinks their own preferences for fun things to do in a game is universal.


Also cant really believe you honestly say that infantry players thinks its a fun experience to be farmed by vehicles while they are fighting over a base or that the infantry player enjoys the trip outside the base to flank the vehicle with C4, even if they win or lose.

Kinda messed up but I cant really change someone on that level, hard enough to convince people with facts and math proving a point.

Problem is, RPG has allowed a central planner in place of a designer. FUN is not the objective. CONTROL is.

The Central Planner determines your flow of battle, the Central Planner determines where you can spawn, The Central Planner determines what you do. And by "you", I mean every player. The fatal conceit of central planners everywhere. The Central Planner sits at a bank of levers.

The Central Planner can do no wrong.

Now, go enjoy the game loop of senseless downtime and running to do something that should take very little time at all--as it is already governed by nanite flow. Oops, I just strayed into game design and not central planning. I will escort myself to Room 101 now.

While true, as long as we dont have a unified front on at least attempting to make the game fun despite contrasting goals the central planner will feel validated. "If no one can agree on making the game fun, then I have to plan it for them". Rather than letting the gameplay speak for itself.

Bingo!!!!

There's a whole lot of gameplay added, especially for non-vehicle players.

Before, there could be just a stealth Lightning or a Liberator doing interdiction, now it is possible for let's say special forces to shut down vehicle supply. This is very logical, and whoever wants to run a tank should do so from where there is control of the territory.
Same with airplanes, this is the infantry player's counter to being lolpodded - just deny the pilot the ability to take off.

If this is an issue then just post security and do a little search and destroy, remove the infiltrators and then it's business as usual.

That said, there should be counter-play to this, such as some extra sensors which show cloakers that only work deep in friendly territory or something.

lol this thread
so half for & half nay
i haven't tried this alteration to vehi terms

i already knew what my opinion was going to be seeing as I have to drive so many sunderers for every empire and harasser main here

that is " let 1 - 12 pop " bases pull from the menu
& perhaps 24vs24 & 48vs48 have fights at the term? is that a win win? I don't know

well pub platoon aren't really gonna use the menu & zerg outfits are just gonna zerg run to the term & destroy any infil
so really just effects solo drivers

some guy said zerg outfits ghostcapping is still gonna happen? i want the opposite less ghost zerg outfits
maybe fighting at the term is good sometimes, maybe it's not, I'll have to wait and see

1) alert winning isn't as sweet as big battles at unique regions
2) why does the best fight only happen at the last 6 minutes of every alert?

reasons?

1) make pub platoons more important than outfit leaders or the pocket os page, rid ghostcap zerg outfits
2) people ignore the better fight for 1 hour to then wait till they own 40% of the map, to enjoy a good farm battle the last 6 min of alert.

Other than that, I'm not sure I have a win win answer. However I do know half the day, half the players don't drive at all heh. So the issue of helping new players who only play medic, helping them learn to drive is still required.

I don't believe any tutorial zone is working well to guide new players, not even if they reworked the tutorial zone.
These new players require a driving voice guide with narration arrows on where to park & how to hit & run, while a 48vs48 battle happens. Where to ninja park while avoiding enemy tanks road side. How to defend their sunderer after they park. How to pull a lightning or mbt without it dying too soon. How to drive a harasser and drive past enemies without dying. " hit & run ".

As for a tug of war to win the alert, via ninjaing or zerging, well I'd prefer pub leaders to be able to switch the links to bases & motivate their entire empire to fight at a unique route. Alerts just split the army to smaller fights, till the last 6 mins, then a good fight, wee woo.

& zerg ghost caps just make their entire outfit sit and wait for 20 mins here & 20 mins there, for nothing, for 2 pocket os's & nothing more. 80% overpop tech plant.

Where's the real navigation, when you want a unique battle farm, without playing ninja tug of war all the time? Train links pub leaders. & siege warpgate events.

I'd say if there's one single infiltrator then that one single infiltrator is not having fun.
Make it if there's ZERO enemies then the auto-spawn-in-vehicle works. If there's nobody to do special ops, then there is no need to run through the base.
If there's one person, then that one person should be able to influence things.

Like I wrote before, bases fully friendly should have some way of detecting where the infiltrator is or something, so the vehicle player is not screwed.

Agreed. There should be like an operative NPC in VR training where folks could sign up for flight or driving basics.
This should be a directive for all new players to go to VR and speak with this NPC.

The links follow road generally, and are a simplified simulation of supply lines. This would not be as simple as it may seem.

I think that simply a spawn rate limit would help a lot. If you can't bring a platoon by teleporting from one base to the next, but you'd need several Sundies and go drive.
That would actually make strategy more important, if the enemy is smart they'd just surround the zerg, cap territory around it, and then destroy it.

If all squads would want to respawn in one single base after that, it would have to take them several minutes to do so.
Otherwise spawn on a broad front and drive up or fly or something. This would fuel fights around main bases, and so decrease the zergfest.

Another nail in the coffin of membership renewal. I remember when this game used to be really fun. Now, it's stalkers run amok. It's hard enough to stay alive -vs- other players, add the asinine orbital strikes, the flail, and bastion strikes? BIG NO for me. Especially when it's spammed every few minutes. The blatant cheating I'm seeing lately, is this being looked into? We've all seen it, players running around "one shoting" everyone while taking little to no damage by a room full of people shooting back at them. Players shrugging off point blank range headshots. Updates that make the game play like TOTAL CRAP. Since the last patch the graphics is totally messed up. Some spots on a continent are OK, jump to another area to HUGE LAG. Since the patch, late afternoons, evenings are totally unplayable due to the lag no matter where ya go. "Changes" to game play that a handful of certain players want that overrule what the majority of other players want. Spawn changes, weapons/ability nerfing, buffing ...etc etc. It's gotten where things are more frustrating than fun lately.

The biggest quality of life impact for newer players was knowing where to spawn to pull the vehicle you wanted, or if a terminal was hacked/ broken. Two things' newbies and casuals have stated as annoying.

The rest, meh.

The change is ineffectual against zerging.

Changing the spawn options and dispersing population has had more effect than the direct vehicle spawn.

I'm gonna swoop on in here and offer my opinion from a PS1 Vet's outlook.

In PS1, most bases had a single vehicle terminal. It would also take time for each vehicle to be created. This would also result in players standing in a line to grab their own vehicle before going to the next base...

What does this mean in PS1 days?

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Means that back in the day, there was plenty of opportunity to get "ganked" as you stood in line waiting to get your vehicle.

Could have cloakers sneak up and ambush you. Could have a Reaver suddenly fly in and barrage you with rockets. Sometimes you might end up having a Bolt Driver round go through your head as you stood there. And of course... You might even suddenly find yourself within the epicenter of an Orbital Strike. --- This was all part of the sandbox gameplay.

So... What do I think about Quick-Pulling Vehicles in PS2?

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For me, the vehicle terminals were either hacked, destroyed or the quick-pull feature was just completely bugged. The system was simply broken most of the time and you wasted even more time just by fumbling around with it. It wasn't ever really worth it, and it was more annoying than useful at times.

What should you do now that Quick-Pulling is gone in PS2?

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... Just spawn at the base, use your legs and pull a vehicle the old-fashioned way. Or if the base is "too complicated" to find the Vehicle Terminal, then just redeploy and spawn your vehicle from another base instead.

Bump.

Ok nearly a week. It's ****.

I pity the vehicle mains right now. Even as an infantry player I can tell their gameplay is diminished. I haven't been killed by an infil even once pulling from a vehicle terminal so the people rubbing hands in anticipation can suck it.

This is stupid and tedious and exposes all other sorts of flaws in the game. Like the fact the air terminal on major facilities is like way over at grandmas house.

Please revert this stupid change.

I know that I'm done pulling support sunderers. Or just most vehicles in general.
Waste time trying to navigate a battlefield to get to the vehicle terminal, only to get ganked by some dunce LA or infiltrator. Yeah; not for me.
The infantry-mains got what they wanted: less vehicles. But that also means less defending vehicles when the HESH-spam squad rolls up to your base unopposed.

I find the people who like this change havent really made any good points in favor of this change.

The main argument is "it has added more gameplay". But that gameplay already existed when you hacked or destroyed the terminal, which required more from the attacker than just arriving and ambushing anyone going for the terminal. So no new gameplay has been added and some gameplay has even been removed.

Another thing: spawn camping. Games have for years now introduced methods to prevent it, as any situation where one player can have "fun" gunning down players when they are in a vulnerable position without any means to mitigate the potential of a spawncamper being there isnt enjoyable and a likely reason why players leave. Despite the insistance of the spawncamper that this is good gameplay and that it encourages others to do more defending their spawn regardless of how lobsided the amount of effort might be to stop said spawncamper.

The vehicle terminal is WORSE.

- Its in almost every base positioned at the edge of a base, where defenders have the lowest chance of securing it properly.
- when accessing the terminal you cannot do anything like move or dodge. A rare bug shows that technically it should be possible to move while accessing terminals.
- even if you use the fastest hotkeys available to select your chosen vehicle and spawn it, your body will remain in front of the terminal a bit longer giving anyone extra time to finish you off, making it an easy affair for snipers or anyone else ambushing you. Worse is ofcourse if you still want to adjust your loadout.
- it is usually not inside a building where sightlines are limited, making it easier for the ambushers to kill you. Worse, many bases have it on the most exposed feature imagineable.
- vehicle pads are already the most vulnerable part of a base, where the terminal is the first to fall into attacking forces hands and the vehicle pad itself subject to tanks spawncamping it. Not to mention how the uninteruptible auto-drive function will drive you onto mines despite the specific anti-mine feature introduced that was supposed to prevent that. Seriously, just let players interupt the auto-drive and take full control if they want.

The entire process is a giant middlefinger to the user and should be revamped. You want to ambush someone going to a terminal? Fine, first do something to the terminal, and anyone using the terminal directly should still have control to move their character and perhaps receive an overshield for the duration of their use to compensate for their higher vulnerability. Keep the auto-drive function but let people interupt it whenever they want to drive&shoot when they want. Vehicle pads should also, wherever possible, be placed more inside the base where defender infantry can support it (see how infantry had a role protecting the vehicle pad in TI Alloys for example). For other bases add infantry cover and surroundings that are easily accessible to the defenders in order to provide a safer vehicle spawn and mustering area to fight off attacking vehicles from.

I'm an infantry main. I didn't ask for this change and don't want it.

The vehicle game has gotten way more zergy now. Maybe the vehicle mains can correct me here but I don't see much in the way of counter pulls anymore.

Why did we make this change again? It's stupid.

Bump.

After some additional weeks. I've come to the conclusion that this change is bad and should be reverted. Game is LESS FUN

It should be baked into the game, you shouldn't be able to quickspawn if the vehicle shield gate is hacked or something, because going into a base and having killed people but not yet killed the terminals, especially if terminals are visible from spawn, results in vehicle spam right in the middle of your army.

...despite having the terminals locked down but there's no angle or it takes a few seconds to properly kill

...or it doesnt work and allows spawns anyways because it's buggy

I like it being gone personally, it opens more play and i'd rather see a 'hold e to instantly spawn into a vehicle you last chose in the menu' to make the campers not really that effective if they let you touch the terminal.

It definitely is MORE than just QoL.