[Suggestion] Unsubscribe Until NSO/New Content Fully Released

If you're like me, duped into the game with the initial advertisement for new NSO content, and run as main/only NSO -- I recommend unsubscribing until the content we paid for is actually released. It's been nearly two years and we're paying for an unfinished product.

What, specifically, are you talking about? NSO is released and have their own ESF, MBT, Flash, Max, and guns. Oshur is pretty bad, but it is also pretty much fully released now.

NSO is so barebones, the entire arsenal is mostly generic items everyone has, no ES LMGs, rocket launchers, barebones assault rifle lineup, no power knife, only one bolt-action, a MAX that has no good anti vehicle, the entire infantry line-up is just 3 mid weapons that fulfill the same role + cross-faction NS weapons, it's common that in a weapon category cross-faction stuff is better than any NSO unique weapon...

Entire cross-faction archetypes don't exist with NSO - you like 800RPM/143DMG 0.75 ADS amazing assault rifles that every other faction has? Tough luck. Likewise, long range ARs that hit hard or have excellent recoil? They don't exist. No 0.75 ADS CQC carbines either except the NS-11C. Difference between the 143DMG ~714RPM, ~672RPM, 698RPM and 167DMG 550RPM stuff is almost nil. You have some SMGs with damage models of 120 which are gimped in CQC for no reason.

Nothing's unusable, it's just so... eh. A lot of the time you'll end up maining cross-faction NS gear because everything is better, especially the carbines until you unlock the Newton (aside the CB-X75, a superb hipfire gun) or SMGs with Punisher or ARs with NS-11A.

Bolt-action sniping is also unnecessarily gimped, your only option is the Mako, which is supposed to be a hybrid long range + CQC bolter and it does neither. It has only 600DMG meaning it can't one shot heavies up close, it has the shortest OHK range of all bolters, 1.4s rechamber is a the second/third slowest in the game, velocity is mid and is basically a ****tier version of T2 BASRs other factions get.

NSO cloak bug still exists.




Everyone's already talked about the vehicles, such glaring issues like Chimera barely having gun depression, meaning it's the only MBT in the game that can lose a straight 1v1 to a Lightning, although unironically with the new cannon NSO has the best tank AA in the game. Dervish is doomed from the start by demanding a 2/2 airframe while not having the performance comparable to one and a half ESFs, lack of A2G which other factions have in spades is a nail in the coffin.

Defector MAX could use a conventional weapon and some better AA and AV, god do the nades suck against vehicles.




The only saving grace is the Linecutter being pretty good, full auto scout rifle is a mini SAW which is cool, CB-X75 which is a very good gun but an obvious VX6-7 clone, the aurax shotgun great, aurax battle rifle is actually sick, and the Newton is probably the most broken gun in the game... that's it. Notice how 3/6 of the redeeming qualities are auraxiums lol.


I've grinded to BR82, got the Newton, abused it nonstop for a few days, now I have no will to play NSO ever again.

You're arguing about balance, which is fair.

I don't think that's what the other person is saying though, and the fact is that they are a fully functional faction, with some of the best weapons in the game (and a lot of meh <cough VS cough> weapons).

The only faction that needs zero infantry weapons buffs is NC. Every other faction has some good weps and a chunk of mediocre copies.

Also, you might want to look up the mako's stats again; 2.25x hs intead of 2.1, 600 vel instead of 500, 6 bullets and faster reload, same acc, roughly the same 2 shot body shot range (less damage, but longer range). Really, the only downside is the longer re-chamber. And while NSO cloak isn't as good as lower poly models, it is still cloak, and it is still literally invisible past like 35m for some settings.

I wont say that you are entirely wrong but it would be both easier to agree with you and discuss about it if you went into detail on what you think is missing/wrong because with just this you come off more as just whining for no reason.

They could use a few more weapon per type for sure and I would be surprised if they wont get them but you like almost everyone else seem to happily ignore one of the best and unique strengths of the NSO arsenal which is the extra 5m range maximum damage and can push their max damage range out to 20m with Soft Point Ammo.

15m is just barely enough/not enough to cover most indoor fights while 20m is almost guaranteed to be enough to be enough most of the time and its a larger bonus than people might realize, a 167 damage weapon needs 6 hits to kill someone with 1002 damage.. meaning if it loses a single point of damage due to damage fall off it will not kill with 6 hits anymore and this holds true no matter what ratio of headshot/bodyshot you end up having.

3 headshots 167 x2 = 334 x3 = 1002
2 headshots = 668 + 2 bodyshots = 1002
1 headshot = 334 + 4 bodyshots = 1002

Obviously, even a 1 damage loss per bullet here means +1 bullet to kill and its the same with 143 damage model weapons as well except for 100% headshots.

4 headshots 143 x2 = 286 x4 = 1144
3 headshots = 858 + 1 bodyshot = 1001
2 headshots = 572 + 3 bodyshots = 1001

so on and so forth so while most NSO weapons might be lacking in stats they are all still fairly potent/efficient since if you use Soft Point Ammo you will more often than not be within your maximum damage range and while +1 bullet isnt a whole lot of a difference it can for example with a 167 damage weapon be a ~33% difference in the bullets to kill requirement.

NSO also has some fun shotguns with imo better reloads.

Their infantry can also get a 'free' and superior Regeneration implant without actually taking up a implant slot with their Nanite Auto Repair suit slot which can be really strong on LA or any class really which you are using for flanking away a bit from the main hoards of teammates. Its even nice for a medic since you can use the Shield Recharge ability instead of the health one if you want, without having to reserve a implant slot for Regen or pack a bunch of healing items. Never again leave home without C4 etc.

The weakness of NSO vehicles is a thing but also have one fix for them all which is not to be alone. All NSO nanite costing vehicles(including the Defector) seem to be based and balanced around them being the support unit in a GROUP of other vehicles.

Chimera has bad gun depression but it has a high mounted main gun perfectly suited for adding its damage over friendly vehicles so even if its stuck behind any of the ES MBTs it can generally still provide damage to the fight. It also has the absolutely best 'defensive' vehicle G2A weapon in the game in the form of the Siren while not having to sacrifice almost any AV capability. Siren is excellent G2A and packs a lot of damage against ground vehicles as well.

Flying Pancake fills a similar role of group support to other air vehicles. Its relatively tanky compared to ESFs so it can survive a bit if it gets targeted and your friendly ESF kills the enemy or if the enemy goes after your ESFs the Pancake is great for quickly killing them as a gunship, combined front gun and turret puts out a lot of damage. Fancy reverse manoeuvrers which can be hard to track with a ESF are quite easy to track with a close range turret too.

Defector is just more of the same, kinda garbage on its own but with a group its a super obnoxious fire support unit with constant splash damage and amazing anti-MAX capability. Sure it has garbage AV weapons but its not like any other faction really uses their MAXes for AV either even if they have decent weapons for them.



I do agree that NSO as a faction is "incomplete" but I dont think its nearly as bad as some make it out to be. Chimera really needs its ability ASAP, Javelin needs some buffs and fixes, infantry weapons needs some more variation but other than that its probably only a special NSO launcher like Lancer/Phoenix etc and a NSO Heavy weapon that is missing to really put it on par with every other faction?... well, a power knife too.

For me the main problem I see with NSO as a faction is this reliance on other players to really be effective. It goes against the current way the faction works and imo a big reason to play them, you get put on different factions every now and then which is really cool but it also means its hard to keep contact with people. You might have some people on your friend list but they might not be online when you are on their faction so it can be hard to get some half decent person to for example gun your Flying Pancake for a few lives and it can be hard to group up with a few people going around with tanks/aircraft because you are not part of a outfit etc etc etc.

NSO really wants you to be playing in a outfit with easy access to people you can group up with but then you have to throw away a big reason for playing NSO which is the random faction part of them.

I am half convinced that it would be much better if NSO players had some sort of NSO chat(for the faction they are currently on) to easier be able to group up with other NSO players who probably have a similar issue of finding people to fill their gunner/driver positions in vehicles or even some fun Javelin Gang.

If you're an NSO player (being solo is common) and A2G starts pounding you...

Log off.

You aren't pulling an ESF and you have no burster max.

ESF MAX MBT are incomplete.

Why dont you pull a Skyguard 2.0 instead then?

Chimera with a Siren + whatever main gun you want. If you really want to shake an angry fist at the sky you could even use the new 0 drop, high velocity, 1 hit ESF kill Larion to take potshots at them from range and then mercilessly shove a bunch of Siren missiles up their rear if they come close or try to fight back.

Hummingbird is also decent as long as they dont run away but no G2A weapon is good when they run.

Couple of issues there:
1. Siren/all secondary guns bugs and won't let you shoot through the main gun/ area, automatically aims up/ away -- useless.
2. Secondary gun has very limited angle of attack to a truncated (due to collision of main gun) 45 degrees
3. Main gun, regardless what is is, simply cannot shoot that high, angle of attack is sub 20 degree.

Skyguard 1.0 will SMOKE and outperform a Chimera trying to anti-air.

Also, edited: to lawl at humming bird.

The Hummingbird??? Are you serious? One of the weakest weapons in the game. Has a rnage 100m less than its like model weapons. Projectiles fly slower than an aircraft nominal cruise speed. AND... they blow up at 300m.... the weapon system is a joke.

Max and ESF is complete. Only MBT isn't due to missing an ability.

You're right,

MAX and ESF need balance / Bug Fixes.

You have clearly made up your mind that NSO only have terrible stuff so no real point trying to argue differently but those issues you threw out... are they really issues?

How do you use a Skyguard if moving the turret is a issue you cant deal with?
Oh well, Im sure someone will learn to appreciate the Siren even if you wont. Being able to kill a ESF with 15 hits and having 8 per reload is good stuff.

Lightning is an option, yes.

Point being there is no max option and no ESF option.

A solo pancake gets destroyed in A2A (vice versa if 2/2). And the hummingbird is an utter joke compared to bursters or even the lockon capabilities of heavy assaults. LOL Compare a TR heavy with a striker vs the dedicated G2A option of the NSO MAX

My only regret is that I have but one thumbs up to give you

I guess last night when I used the pancake for a few minutes and killed some ESFs were all a dream after all, with hard facts like this given it could be nothing else.

There is no such thing as a dedicated G2A option for the Defector, its a "shoot everything" weapon. Its better than the other options against infantry aside from the Detonator scenario with tons of packed up infantry that you can bomb from range and it can lock on to both ground and air vehicles as a bonus, so you are not entirely useless if they intrude on the fight.

Hummingbird Defector will walk all over MAXes while still blowing up infantry as well as being dangerous/annoying enough to shoo away air.

What will a Burster MAX do? Sit in spawn and lose the base and still probably have 0 air kills because just as they can run from the slow missiles they can run from low DPS flak.



Btw Hummingbird has a 2.5 per second RoF until you overheat so in 2 seconds you can throw out 5 of them which is about 50% of a ESFs health. You might not have a very long range on it but they usually dont stick around either because contrary to popular belief it can do some damage fairly quickly.

1."I guess last night when I used the pancake for a few minutes and killed some ESFs were all a dream after all, with hard facts like this given it could be nothing else."

Accidents do happen.

Just like the other braggadocios person that refuses to prove how good they are with a dervish, I ask you to record a non-stop, unedited, off server (Connery, as VS) Dervish run... with legitimate dogfights, not vulture hits.

I'm curious to see your immense expertise on this platform that the community at large understand performs by far less than any other aircraft.

Basic community behavior reinforces how valuable a platform is via supply v demand. The more we see these platforms in use, the more valuable they are by virtue of effectiveness.

We hardly see Dervishes because people know how poorly they perform and simply opt to not pull one. However, reavers, mosquitos, prowlers, are always present in a battle.

Doesn't matter what time of day, which server, people will tell you how rare it is to see a Dervish, while the NSO pop is considerable.


2. "Hummingbird Defector will walk all over MAXes while still blowing up infantry as well as being dangerous/annoying enough to shoo away air."

What? I actually spit my coffee back into the cup when I read this.

Definitely not.

"What will a Burster MAX do? Sit in spawn and lose the base and still probably have 0 air kills because just as they can run from the slow missiles they can run from low DPS flak."

Burster MAXes are practically hit scan, and ONE Burster MAX can deter an entire air fleet. The sheer amount of damage a burster puts out is absurd compared to a Hummingbird. We're talking factor level.

"Btw Hummingbird has a 2.5 per second RoF until you overheat so in 2 seconds you can throw out 5 of them which is about 50% of a ESFs health. You might not have a very long range on it but they usually dont stick around either because contrary to popular belief it can do some damage fairly quickly."

Does not matter... the speed of a hummingbird is slower than the nominal, non-afterburner cruise speed of ESFs. Even Galaxy's can outrun them. The round explodes at 200m.. like really, who are you playing against? lol

3. These statements lead me to believe you were playing on Koltyr, during tutorial or something. Hummingbird have a speed SLOWER than vehicles. Their range is LESS than vehicle engagement. Their DAMAGE is less than ANY OTHER weapon.

Literally, they're useless against a NON-STATIONARY TARGET THAT IS NOT FIGHTING BACK.

Who are you playing against? Really? lol

NSO max AA is pretty weak, and UFOs are pretty bad when not 2/2, but let's also not exaggerate. A Burster Max isn't keeping even 1 ESF from farming infantry, let alone 'an entire fleet'. And UFO a2g is pretty bad as well, so you not only do you see less because they are NSO, but they are also basically purely A2A.

Great observation.

I never made any claims of being a superior pilot though and that was kind of the point as well, my time in the air is quite low compared to everything else I do in the game and I can still get kills with a solo Pancake. I can also swap seats in vehicles so perhaps I am really good? who knows but I certainly wont claim that I am a amazing pilot, perhaps a little above average?

And no I wont make a new NSO, grind certs and get a Pancake going on a server located across the world from me just to comply with your arbitrary demands. Perhaps you could show some non-stop, unedited, off server (Connery, as VS) Scythe run... with legitimate dogfights, not vulture hits to prove that you are an amazing pilot?
(No, I dont actually see how this would prove anything either of us are discussing either!)

Solo Scythe, Mossie or Reaver also gets destroyed in A2A. Its not like the majority of the playerbase can get jumped by 1, 2 or 3 etc enemy ESFs from behind and be like "Im not in a Dervish, I GOT THIS!".

Most people die if they get jumped by a single enemy ESF no matter what faction ESF they are in but for some reason if that happens when they play NSO its because the Dervish is bad. Sure its not a true ESF and you cant really use it like a ESF or expect it to perform like one but that is still what people are doing.

So yeah I will do the super popular thing and say that most people dont know what they are doing / are doing it wrong when they are using the Pancake and it starts already with the loadout unless the community has changed its mind about the Drift frame?
Well, its the one people should use and especially if they want to fight other aircraft and even more especially if they are flying solo.

Sure its a bit squirrelly and takes a bit of getting used to but there are plenty of advantages with it, one being the Pancakes own "reverse manoeuvre" except its not exactly what you might expect if you use a normal ESF.

The main weakness of a Dervish when fighting ESFs is its lack of agility which makes it hard to deal with someone getting close and simply circling around you or getting above/below you. Drift frame has much better rotation speed which helps with keeping up with the more agile ESFs but it also maintains its speed/momentum much better than the other options.

If a ESF gets too close to you so you cant keep up with them, you can boost away for a bit in more or less a straight line then start a left/right rotation before swapping to your gunner seat to take shots at the now pursuing ESF that is also flying in more or less a straight line at you. If you are using the AV turret you can generally take 3-4 shots at it before swapping back into the pilot seat which by magic has now finished its 180 degree rotation and you are facing the ESF. If you started a reload before swapping into the gunner seat your nosegun is also reloaded and ready to fire.

It takes some practice and some skill to pull off and actually do something but it does work even with my meh piloting skills and very limited time/experience flying the Pancake which is why I am making crazy claims like the Pancake not being garbage because if someone actually put a bit of time and effort into it there are some crazy things you can do with it and it seems fair to make claims like that because its not like any other ESF is a easy and intuitive experience that anyone can just hop into and go fight some veterans on even footing so why should the Dervish be any different? Its just silly to expect to compete with the people who lives in a ESF with a new vehicle that requires new skills to be learned on top of it being a force multiplier rather than "Alone is strong!" type of vehicle.

What is stopping it?
Even against a MAX with Flak armor it can still kill it in like 3-4 seconds at almost any range and while Defector in general is kinda garbage against infantry with Flak armor since all its weapons are mainly explosives its a fire support unit, let the infantry around you deal with the few infantry you struggle with.

Wow, you are not even trying anymore are you?

Since you served yourself on a silver platter like that for me I will have to give out some facts.

Bursters have a 325m/s velocity, that is far from hitscan. NSO MBT Larion has 350m/s velocity and its not anywhere near hitscanning aircraft. Hell even a Skyguard has 400m/s and its still a relatively slow projectile. I now heavily suspect it was not just coffee you were drinking.

Burster flak damage is 28 per shot, against a ESF with their -180% flak damage resistance that is 78.4 damage but the game rounds down here to 78 damage per shot.
Burster has a RPM of 220 = 3.6667 per second
DPS = 78 x3.666667 = 286 x2 because you have two of them = 572 DPS

Hummingbird does 165 damage per shot and its Light Anti-Vehicle damage which ESF have -100% resistance to so they do 330 damage each.
Hummingbird has a RPM of 150 = 2.5 per second
DPS = 330 x2.5 = 825 DPS

So lets compare that a little closer.
Chad Dual Burster MAX: 572 DPS
Garbage Hummingbird: 825 DPS

This is why aircraft usually run right away when a Defector fires at them, if they do not run its a fair bit if damage coming their way while flak is kinda optional, they can kill one or two more infantry. Hummingbird also makes it hard to know if there are any other G2A launchers in the area shooting at them so its a big gamble to stick around.

It kills those that stay, just like any other G2A weapon does because that is how they are by design and you can ask a dev about that but it was already confirmed several years ago that G2A weapons are not meant to kill like all other weapons, they are "deterrents" meant to force them away from the area and/or limit their time shooting at a target. Its only when pilots ignore this or face overwhelming force that G2A weapons turn into a lethal weapon(you can ofc try to force this by different ways like parking a Skyguard where its not expected or letting them get 'too' close to get away).

It wont kill a lot of aircraft but few G2A weapons do, the great thing though is that its NOT a specialized G2A weapon like everything else so you are not sacrificing much of anything while still having the same ability to be a "deterrent".

I dont know the Hummingbirds max range or how fast ESFs move in m/s but since you are so very wrong with how much damage the Hummingbird actually does I now question how right you are on these other 'facts' as well since you seem to just pull them out of your rear.

I mean I could ask you the same thing, who are you playing against that lets you shoot their ESF for 6-7 seconds with flak instead of killing you or running away?

Hm, apparently there is a 30 minute edit limit on posts and literally missed it by a few seconds so new post it is, didnt even get to keep my text I wrote for the edit!

Anyway, tested it in VR and the Hummingbird has a 300m lock on range against both ground and air vehicles but it can maintain the lock against aircraft over much longer distances.

The actual projectile seem to time out around the 380m range mark when they are locked on while I could hit the Colossus from 414m away using manual fire and with the arc on the projectile I guess its already going around 500m. Its hard to try much longer range than this since I am already slightly shooting over a hill without seeing the Colossus(no other target in the way before or after the Colossus so its definitely that I am getting hits on).

Either way its not really practical to use this at these ranges so functionally the manual fire is "as far as you need it to be" while the lock on range is more limited but still almost double the range that was claimed it has.