all mines are lame and should be taken out of the game

I am going to ignore the stupidity of what you just said and make my own statement:

You're wrong, and the fact that you can't see it and continue to post this drivel is honestly just sad. I'm not going to repeat myself; i've explained it. All that is left is for you to unbias yourself and read their post again, this time from the point of not having the benefit of knowing their response.

As for your suggestion, just no. Not only would that severely impact server performance, but it's more braindead mechanics that have no real benefit for the game; you aren't interacting with players, you're using place and forget mechanics, and when you can continually place them there isn't even the pretense of having to be 'strategic' with them.

Sometimes I wonder if you can read prior posts before commenting.

No, I'm not wrong. He thumbs'd up my post because he knew I understood what he was saying. Thats the exact way I took it when I read the post, and I understood what he meant. Its actually stupid to assume that he would think that you should still be able to detonate the C4 on respawn when he specifically said that you should be able to detonate it by shooting it with a bullet. Its so simple. Not only are you trying to argue about WHAT ANOTHER PERSON MEANT, but you are trying to say I am wrong when I am telling you what he meant and he AGREES WITH ME?

And this is why I think you can't read prior posts. He explained to me that it would hurt server performance, especially for mines, and I agreed and said I understood now. However, for things like C4, no, because its not a strat people would take. Its a waste of nanites if you die. And tank mines stay if you die, making you about to blow them up later (as I used yesterday). So its not a crazy idea. It is useful.

Easy there, lad. Don't let it cost you your temper. Do you see now why I sometimes don't take these threads seriously anymore? It is fighting against windmills.

Projecting your own failings is pretty common of you, but don't dwell on it too much, you're likely to never change anyway.

For the logical part:
You can already detonate it by shooting it. Nothing they said is a new mechanic at all, besides it not disappearing upon respawn; get that through your thick skull. If the player doesn't respawn, the c4 already stays there, as a 'vulnerability' that can be shot. If they get a revive, it can still be detonated manually, despite already being a 'vulnerability'. In fact, this is how c4 even originally worked for a short while, in that it didn't despawn on a respawn, allowing you to trigger it if it wasn't removed. Your ignorance of game mechanics doesn't make you right.

For the language and communication part:
I'm going to let you in on some not so secret knowledge: having to actually use the correct words and language to get your message across is an important part of communication. You've blown this so far out of proportion it's gone beyond sad, right back to being hilariously stupid, but that's also on par for you. I'm not trying to argue what they meant, not even in the slightest; again, your failure to actually read and understand what's written furthers the irony of your projections unto me.

And this is why I think you can't process what is actually written, nor actually use your gift of intelligence and instead squander it. To start off, because why not, your response to me comes before his response to your response; even if I didn't read their response before responding to you, why you think I should have to read every and any post not directed to me simply to reply to your post that is directed at me is baffling.

As for your idea, the fact that you can't understand that the potential performance issues of having random c4 just sitting on the server unexploded is very little difference to having mines just sitting on the server further (as if anymore is needed) proves how little you actually think things through or even process them. Like explaining it to a baby: more people use c4 than they do proxy or tank mines. If the c4 doesn't disappear on re-use or respawn, then you are going to have more and more of them pile up as people miss and/or die before exploding them, especially in places like open fields, where they will sit until the player disconnects from the server.

For the logical part:
I never said it was a new mechanic. I literally never once said that. The player shouldn't have to stare at the death screen for their actions to be of use. If you throw a C4 down, it shouldn't despawn on respawn. It should stay there. The server can handle it. If no enemies are in a hex for X amount of time, THEN it should despawn. If it has been active for Y amount of time, THEN it should despawn. But respawning shouldn't despawn it, nor should placing more, up to a limit, so that you can't make the biggest, server lagging chain explosions. Also, I don't care about how the game worked in the past. We are supposed to learn from our mistakes. OF COURSE it is dumb to be able to detonate it after you respawn. No one was ever trying to advocate for that! Seriously, it doesn't matter in the slightest how it used to be if we aren't advocating for things to be just like how they used to be!

What he said was easily understandable if you don't assume everyone other than you is an idiot. It was simple communication, and it was simple to think that hey, since he mentioned shooting it with bullets, he doesn't mean that you can simply detonate it after you die with a detonator. That would be the dumb thing to think. Seriously, thats so hypocritical to say that I failed to "actually read and understand what's written", and I can't tell if you are joking for kicks or not, since thats EXACTLY what you did with his post, and the writer confirmed that!

Why would you argue this instead of just saying, "Oh. I didn't see the post beforehand because of the timing of the replies, and I didn't check the post history"?

If you checked the other post, which it seems like you did if you specifically mentioned the timing of the posts, then you would see that I said I understood. Not only that, but deciding that someone is 100% wrong (when there is an easy fix to the problem you mentioned), therefore you are 100% right, is the dumbest possible way to ever go about a discussion or argument. Therefore, to address your concern, just make it despawn after X amount of time. Not only that, but its dumb to assume that Engineers won't start to deactivate C4 that didn't explode. Why should you be able to even deactivate it if there are only two scenarios when C4 is at play: either the person who dropped the C4 is killed and it despawns when they respawn, or the person who dropped the C4 is alive and blows it up before you are even able to deactivate it. Its really a simple fix to a problem. As for them being in open fields, they'll just eventually despawn, and as I have stated earlier in this post, you should be able to have an upper limit to the amount of C4 or mines that you can have placed, not just the amount of C4 or mines you can carry. That way, you can go for extremely risky strategies nanite-wise, but they are extremely risky strategies nanite-wise, and they won't lag up the server.

Now, for goodness's sake, can we have an actual discussion from now on without it turning into a very, very stupid argument?

I agree, and have said as much.

No.

It's in regards to how the mechanic currently works, and has worked in the past. It's in regards to getting mad, and trying to twist it and play the victim because they forgot to mention that the mechanic wouldn't continue to work like it does, or has. Let me use another example that even paints me in a bad light to make it more palatable for you:

Me: "Rez should make the player invulnerable for three seconds"
You: "That would be stupid, the player has three seconds to shoot while invincible"
Me: "That isn't what I said, stop putting words in my mouth. They wouldn't be able to shoot while in that state"
You: "Well, then mention that part, as the current mechanics do allow you to shoot after being rezzed"

Don't be ridiculous:

Straightforward enough.

This LITERALLY, and I mean LITERALLY, just tells you how the current mechanic LITERALLY work as of right now. That is LITERALLY all this sentence does. Not one thing in that sentence references how it should work differently, nor does it imply anything else besides that c4 should persist on a respawn, even when combined with the entire paragraph.

You are arguing from a point of knowledge of their intent, after the fact. The saddest part is how much effort you have put into this to fall so flat.

You haven't understood jack all; you read the words and they go in one ear and out the other, just like that very sentence. To even think for a second that I was trying to argue what they meant, when in that very response of mine that you quoted I acknowledge that I understood what they meant (after their reply), but was calling them out for trying to blame me for their lapse in communication, is the epitome of your lack of understanding.

The audacity to think that your response demands that everyone read any and all posts directed at you, before replying to you, is bordering on narcissism. Your failure to comprehend and reflect on what is being said is astonishing.

Further, my point wasn't only about server performance (again, in one ear and out the other). You tried to pitch a suggestion to me, and while the other person brought up server performance and you agreed on that point, I had other reasons as well. Meaning, even if server performance wasn't an issue, it would still be a no because of the rest.

Further proof you don't actually read what is written:

You've had to change how your intended mechanic works constantly, and currently it is a tiny fraction of what you originally suggested. I didn't 'decide' that your idea was 100% wrong, I 'decided' that with the current info you gave, your idea had issues and wasn't fit for the game. You need someone else to point out all of the issues, because you can't think ahead. You're a joke, your current suggestion is so diluted down from your original suggestion, and the fact that you can't see that is hilarious.

What are you even trying to accomplish with your suggestion, given all the restrictions? c4 is more like a grenade that you can't throw very far; it isn't meant to be a fire and forget mechanic. What scenario do you even see the ability to resupply, apply more c4 to a target, all without first detonating your other c4? Construction? or maybe you got some c4 on an undefended sunderer, then redeployed and came back?

You're the one who first started this with your incorrect assumptions and inability to understand what was written. Don't even try, for a second, to put this on me; you can stop your ridiculous posting at any time, ignore me, and be 'the better person', as some like to say. Pathetic.

I still think the TR and NC mines need brighter colours, or the Vanu mine needs to NOT BE FREAKING BRIGHT PURPLE...

The purple isn't what makes the proxy stand out, it's the three glowing lights. Same with the bouncing betty and her ring of death. The TR claymore is the only one with no lights, but standing out due to its height, making it even more lethal at night or in shallow waters on Hossin.

Yeah! Dark Purple is much more visible than bright blue on the NC mines!

Or we check voidwell on how well these mines do. They are more or less similar, although you could make the teensy tiny case that VS mines are ever so slightly better.

Claymores have 2 small green triplasers that designate their area of detection.

Well, these green lasers are so thin in comparison to the ring of death or the three dots of agony, I would not consider them even remotely recognizable to a similar degree.

And due to the use of the mines in an enviroment of buildings colored in a gray tone, everything colorful stands out. The human eye is used to things it is accustomed to. Irregularities such as bright red draws attention.


You tell me what is more recognizable in plain gray. And we're just talking about colors, I am not even talking about the hexagon on the NC Bouncing Betty nor the three dots on the VS Proxy or the thin lasers on the TR claymore.

One guy on private chat this one time does not constitute "all the hate for.."

This thread is the first gripe I've heard about mines in the better part of a decade.

If anything they might actually *gasp* need a buff. Implants made them completely visible to anyone who chooses to run one. Network latency means a lot of the time they don't even do anything. On both the infantry and vehicle side. Honestly when was the last time anyone considered mineguard for one of their loadouts? Heck, has anyone even bothered to put a cert into it recently?

I vote instead we call the guy that was chatting with you a lil whiner and be done with it.

That made me laugh, not gonna lie. It's a bit common sense. Die once to something, anything, the other party is to blame. Die twice to the same thing, YOU are to blame.

Reminds me of fun I had today on Hossin. First mine, BOOM goes the medic. About 20 seconds later second mine, BOOM goes the engineer. Medic is back in the meantime due to revive timer being out and respawn timer as well to revive the engineer, HA looks at the scene, SLASH goes the HA to my knife, before I YEET over the reeling, activating the cloak. HA later says in yell chat he was in total confusion how I got him with a knife between 3 people. Guess I was lucky enough it took the medic too long to recognize what was going on to change back from revival tool to weapon to get me in time.

I mean they clearly approached the mines from the side they were meant not to come from. I hid them behind some crates for enemies to come from the left side (frommy perspective) to run into them and they came from the right side and I expected them to shoot the mines upon seeing them, when I first saw their approach, but Lady Luck was with me in that moment.

Once people let their guard down, they are most vulnerable. People don't pay attention and blame the tools who brought them down for it as well as the people using these tools. Even I let my guard down sometimes. But when I get killed by an AI mine, I pay twice the amount of attention the next time.

Now, if people want alternatives to the mine finding tools, I am OK with it, as long as it is balanced, but I will strongly oppose the removal of any element of the game without some compensation just for the feelings of someone. May sound uncaring or unkind, but no one gives a rat's behind about my feelings either.

I'm the guy who clears the mines for my squad. Usually with my face.

It is what it is. If I have my guard up they never get me. Predictable placement. All 4 flavors are easy to spot. If my guard is down, they do.

To they make me mad? Sure! Enraging! ... at myself!!

They do serve a purpose other than just raw griefing though. They slow down pushes (to clear them or pickup the bodies), serve as alarms, and have some clever realtime uses particularly for cloakers. On the vehicle side they keep armor honest. Slow it down at bottlenecks (through clearing or repairing)..

it's fun stuff.

I do like throwing the tank mines in front of a vehicle spawn. Fair game I say.

Other than that I'm usually on the receiving end of the pain. And it's a fun pain. I don't mind it.


Edit: To quickly add... The reason this type of death isn't *that* frustrating compared to say Cloakers or A2G is this: My own skill plays a part in the outcome. I can iterate and get better. When I die I know it's on me. That is not as frustrating as dying when my skill had no impact on the outcome.

Beyond being a braindead mechanic, my biggest problem is that you can't get by proxy mines without exploding them without specific equipment; which means even if you spot it, you either resign yourself to showing up on the map, alerting people with sound, or both. As much as it's not a good idea generally, I think you should be able to not trigger the proxy mines by crouch walking or something, which gives a pretty good risk vs. reward.

Or, conversely, go through a different door. Or, care less and blow them up, THEN go through a different door. Or, defuse them as an Engineer. People shouldn't need to camp mines, mines that are easily exploded when seen, to make sure they are effective, because thats not what mines do.

Or, conversely, allow for more play around a braindead mechanic that isn't 'blow it up and alert everyone or completely avoid it'. Eng repair tool puts you on the map as if you fired a gun, and most of the time you can't out-range the explosion radius. And no, mines absolutely should require at least some amount of attention, what kind of smooth brain take is that lol.

Next.

I see no justification for keeping mines OHK in there. Replacing OHK with high damage and more mines to place would still work and even make your fun pain more frequent.

Lets make mines inherently neutral. Meaning you can blow yourself up if you step on your own mine.

Thats a stupid mechanic. Change that, then do everything I just said. And every mechanic in the game doesn't need to be smart. And no, mines shouldn't require attention. Thats not how mines work. Listening to them blow up, now that takes attention. If you are in a desert somewhere and you hear a mine you placed go off, you are like "Oh, so thats where they are." Thats a mine. You place it and forget about it. Thats how a mine works. You don't watch a mine to see if someone falls for it. Thats stupid and its a crybaby complaint if you think mines are so broken and unbalanced. It only makes you sound like you fall for them a lot or put yourself into bad scenarios that you can't get out of, so you complain about the presumed cause of your own mistakes.

Now Clone117's post is a good one. He says:

Thats great. Now you can eat crap from your own mine that you forgot about. Now the problem is, does this affect your team was well? If so, that means you can't use them as defensive items particularly effectively, because it cuts off routes for your allies, and in bigger battles, the mines didn't matter being in a defensive position anyways, since they'd just get blown up.

That's stupid. Change that, and do everything I said. And no, mines should require you to pay attention to them, or put them in better spots.

That's an awful idea if you actually want mines to be useful. I wouldn't mind this change, because it would mean less and less of them are used, but if your goal is to keep them usable, no.

Next.