[Vehicle] Harassers Vs Tanks - Settled with Stats

There are no problems with this machine. The problem is people who are offended who are being killed by other people. Remove the car completely and nothing changes. Those who take on the role against tanks will change their technique, for example, to anta: 86 km per hour and better maneuverability, x2 health, bulldog or machine gun, stealth or turbine, silent engine. There will be whining too. The problem is not technology.

For example, a car is unable to destroy a Sander parking lot: 10 spikes + 10 mines + a bulldog and a machine gun with only two engineers. But the Sanders are so careless about the game that they just throw them at random in the parking lot. Likewise, tanks are blind, stupid and play for themselves = cars destroy them.

The main problem with the Harasser is that the speed, damage resistance and rumble repair combined made the vehicle nearly unkillable by any other ground vehicle barring overwhelming force(numbers) or Harasser driver putting them so deep in the hole they cant get out.

Harasser has 2500 health(3000 with comp) and Fire Suppression repairing 375 health = 2875(3375) health.

AP Lightning doing 840 damage per shot means it takes 4 hits to kill a Harasser without comp armor and even then its only 485 damage overkill means that a rumble seat repair could put it over the line and now the Harasser has survived the 4th shot as well. Even with maxed reload time on the Lightning it takes just over 8 seconds to fire 4 AP shots and thats if the Lightning is taking the shots as soon as possible one after the other which is not that likely against a high speed and evasive target like a Harasser.

Now it needs to fire a 5th shot putting just the reload time to 10.7 seconds, the Harasser has to be in one of the worst spots on the map if its not out of sight well before that. A Comp Harasser is left with 15 health after taking 4 AP hits meaning it automatically requires a 5th shot because even though it would burn and die, the Harasser is rumble repairing while running, it might even take a 6th shot because of the rumble repair if the Lightning is chasing them for 10+ seconds.

Its just bad balance when the only real counter to something is itself.
The rumble repair nerf definitely helps with the Harasser problem because they are less likely to just run away with little to no health but the same result could have been achieved by dropping the tank shell resistance lower so a 4th AP hit is much more likely to actually kill them even with repairs... though personally I think its absurd that the Harasser even needs 4 AP hits to kill since that is entering Lightning/MBT levels of durability on what is supposed to be a hit and run skirmisher so it getting a -65% or something to tank shells would not be too bad.

AP Lightning would then do 1155 damage per shot so 3 hits = 3465, enough to kill a comp + FS Harasser and it wouldnt change anything in Harasser vs Harasser combat or launchers etc, only when tanks main guns are involved would it hurt more than before which is how it should be.

*Edit
Just to put it into perspective, that extra 65% damage from tank shells is only 15% higher than what tanks themselves take to the front armor, and the SAME damage they take on their sides so its not like its a huge never before seen nerf to a vehicles damage resistance.

Whenever I drove a vehicle pre NSO update (Lightning, Vanguard or Harrasser), I consistently died significantly faster with the Harrasser than with either Lightning or Vanguard. This was partially due to playstyle, but in my experience Harrassers usually can't outrun death all the time if they want to be able to kill enemy vehicles [1]

Comparing Harrassers to Lightnings is almost cynical in this case, as lightnings were in a much, much better position before Harries got nerfed. I've spent tons of time in my lightning and never felt bothered too much by harries. Only running into MBTs all the time, however, does bother me quite a bit, as it makes lightnings nearly pointless to use.

Even if we ignore that part: One lightning against one Harrasser means one player against two. I do think that the Harrasser should have the upper hand in a direct confrontation with a single lightning. Two lightnings are generally a bit stronger than one single Harrasser.

Leaving aircraft aside, MBTs were able to counter Harrassers. Given a suitable secondary and decent situational awareness MBTs were usually able to either scare off Harries or defeat them most of the time. And so were lightnings, if there was more than one of them.

Who wants drive hit and run skirmishers that can't take anything down the vast majority of the time? Something like that might be somewhat useable in large, coordinated vehicle fights to distract enemies and create diversions. Unfortunately, such fights rarely happen in Planetside and even if they were more common: Pulling tanks would simply be much more effective for flanking.
Edit: Though this way of doing things would probably still make them more fun than they are now.

[1] Harries are, of course, able to choose when/where to engage most of the time. An MBT attacked from the rear with a Mjolnir will probably have a bad time - but they should, imho. That's what tactics are for. MBTs getting attacked from the rear by a lightnings are also in a bit of a pickle.

Conclusions so far.

If you drive a Harasser you think this was an unnecessary over nerf.

If you do not drive one 100% of the time with a godlike set of stats your opinion is worthless.

----
I'm shocked by this result but great work everyone. We moved forwards!

You can pretty much draw this conclusion from most nerfs in the game, unless nobody liked the thing in the first place. I highly doubt if Wraith Flashes were to be nerfed that anyone would decry the nerf as "hurting skilled Flash mains". But on the other hand, god knows Infils are extremely polarizing on these forums, so any sort of nerf to them would result in a mass of complaints, whether they be complaints as "unnecessary" or complaints they didn't go far enough.

Its the case here. Most, if not all of the ardent Harasser defenders in this thread have a significant amount of Harasser playtime, and insist nobody understands that the Harasser was balanced because they died in it a lot. Never mind the fact that, since they played in it so much, they would thus die in it the most. Using statistics to undeniably "prove" this point just has lead to a whole lot of arguing. You hav people who want Rumble Repair back, people who want a resistances nerf, people who will accept the former if they get the latter, all sorts of opinions.

But we are kind of stuck with what we have. I'm pretty sure the devs have rarely walked back on one of these major changes, and I doubt they'll start doing so now if Harasser usage stats and related metrics don't undergo a major change. They said they'd monitor the Valkyrie, not the Harasser, which indicates they feel the Harasser will be perfectly fine in this newest state, but the Valkyrie might need further tuning. The Harasser is thus stuck, and love or loathe the change - we need to learn to live with it. No matter how much it might suck.

You Assumed wrong, and please... Most Vets do not even know this site exists, and are too busy kicking glass to care passed the shock of them coming back to horrific changes after a minor break. (That is the only reason I started joining forums, to try to stop this kind of nonsense from taking root and ruining the game.) If I am killed by a tank in a Harasser it would be stupid of me to pull something I just got killed in to fight the same person in the same thing they just mowed my lawn with... I would pull a M.B.T. Or a Liberator to challenge them in a situation where I have the upper hand. Or if I felt that the person just got lucky, I will pull a Flash to humiliate them. Anything but the same vehicle because that is what your enemy expects you to do. If you want to get revenge in a game like this you need the element of surprise on your side, if you wish to be successful that is.

The metaphor was MEANT to be stupid. It was a comparison of stupidity. To me a Flash being pandered to in order to kill a Liberator is just as foolish as everything else being pandered to in order to kill an easily dispatched car. There are whole threads here that participated in and made where wannabe stat vets cried about the healing of the car regardless of the fact that it was not the issue that they were encountering. (I personally debunked the fact that the car was overpowered by making 3 videos of my smashing them repeatedly.) So yes, that would make all of the weapons Over powered; which means, buy default, NONE of them are overpowered; which means NO NERF WOULD BE NEEDED. (The only Top Gun to this day I have issues with is the Vulcan on T.R. for some reason ALL of T.R.'s weapons are just better and more fun than everyone else. I say this as a N.S.O./Former Vanu Main. I have no problems with Harassers until I am facing a Vulcan. I am left a bit warm but they are usually still dead.) On Playstation, we know how to kill the little toy car, we do not need the help but hey if you are going to do something about cars because you think they are too brazen there exists a simple 2-3 sentence solution to fix that and it will not leave the Valkyrie completely helpless..... (I will make a post about that after this) I shoot fully manned Valkyrie almost every session with EASE. I just got around to seriously flying one this past year. While they are decent in the right hands, the fact is Piloting them is a HUGE turnoff because it limits the points you can get. Even with a group that knows how to Roll Heal they are still very easy kill and shoot down if they do not run as soon as they start taking fire, so it did not need any KIND of tampering. I was happy to see them out and about, and down right THRILLED when I encountered a few that would challenge me by means of both dodging and areal C4 bombardment!!! They had finally become useful enough for a few people to use regularly.

I will try to find the page I came across the Harasser Defense. I do remember the person was crying about it hardcore and how it simply balanced out the Nerf. When I find it, I will post it, if I remember.

A long time ago, I would have trusted my words to reach those who had a brain. Then T-Rump happened and I knew the dumb outnumbered the brilliant. His time in office taught me a very valuable lesson: Play like your enemy, if you do not, they will run you over and you will look up and the world that you knew and loved would be dead and gone.

I am not civil, and I have every excuse not to be and to whine back if I so choose. Civility went out the window when people cried to Nerf a Single hit kill BIKE that cannot even keep up with an ANT or Prowler in a flat out race and when I looked up and saw Vanu Sovereignty had been Nerfed to to point of obscurity in the dark days of Planetside 2. The days when the Magrider moved a full 10 KPH slower that the next slowest tank. Weaklings are STILL calling to Nerf the bike because they are too pathetic to kill them. THEN HAVE BEEN NERFED TO DEATH ALREADY!!!! How in the name of VANU can a person be so WEAK as to not be able to kill a single hit bike with the rider exposed and you have a MAIN CANNON (in an M.B.T.'s case) AND A GUNNER that can aim 360 around you, all while having the ability to RUN THEM OVER?!?!?! Half this Forum disgusts me due to all the Nerf Crying when all they need to do is get off the site and PRACTICE. Perhaps if they put as much effort into killing their nemesis vehicles as they do with coming up with glass reasons why those vehicles should be Nerfed, they would not be here complaining because they would be among the many who did not care... Now THAT is Violently Angry! (Word Edition)

Wow. that is certainly violently angry. And in light blue too. Not a colour I usually associate with anger. Honestly, the cyan and the emoji spam was what annoyed me more than anything.

I assumed wrong? Harassers are solid at fighting tanks last I checked, so if I was a Harasser main, I'd probably want to go at it again. I can't speak for you, obviously, or anyone else for that matter since I don't main Harasser. Pulling something other than a Harasser would require your team to co-operate with you. Pulling something else exclusively to challenge that feels... idk. A Liberator is certainly surprising, but a Harasser team might not be any good at flight. Taking an MBT is more likely to lead to an equal fight. If you main Harasser, you probably want to mostly use... well, Harasser. Again, I can't speak for you, but thats how I'd look at it. Bugger the enemy "expecting" you, you are in a super fast buggy with excellent AV! Go bother them more!

Also, the Flash? Really? If you also use Wraith Cloak, I'm afraid I will have no respect for you.

I get that the metaphor is dumb, but its dumb in the wrong way. As I said, the comparison was EXTREMELY far fetched, and it doesn't really fit with a vehicle losing Rumble Repair while it continues to have the overall survivability of a Tank. Nobody was being pandered to, since like I've said I haven't seen anyone complain about the Harasser that much compared to other things in the game. If anyone was being pandered to, I have yet to see them, as most everyone agrees that this is a lazy change that either does too much or not enough. No "perfectly balanced" comments. Where are these people who complained about Rumble Repairs? Are any of them in the thread? Why haven't any of them come forward to declare this an excellent perfectly sensible change?

Personally debunking a things OPness just shows you're good at Harasser hunting. Doesn't speak for the rest of the playerbase, including your ability to "shoot fully manned Valkyrie almost every session with EASE". Bragging will get you nowhere. The weapons are not the issue with the Harasser, nobody thinks they need to be nerfed, and there are more than a few people on the forums who would disagree with "ALL of T.R.'s weapons are just better and more fun than everyone else".

Ah, Playstation. See, this could explain things. For instance, it's a lot easier to track and aim a Harasser gun on M+K than Controller. But that's neither here nor there. I can understand being the main pilot of a Valkyrie being a turnoff because you're limited in points earned, but presumably people who main Valkyries don't necessarily care about that too much? Valkyries certainly got off worst with this update, any playstyle that made them "OP" was extremely niche, and its pretty much unanimous among the forumbase that Valkyries didn't need Rumble Repair removing.

And I've said it before, I'll say it again - Rumble Repair is a casualty of the Chimera having Rumble seats. That is absolutely the main reason it got removed, balance be darned.

Hey, keep politics out of this. We aren't all American here, and the Sentient Cheese Puffs time in office has very little relevance to Planetside 2. "You are fake news", blatant racism, and all the other hallmarks of Drumpfs presidency have no place here.

You should be civil. Being uncivil will put a lot of people off reading your posts and acknowledging your points. Whining just makes people seem childish, and those who can't behave like adults have no place at a serious debate.

A single hit kill bike? I assume you speak of the Flash, which is being called for a nerf because it has ridiculously good AV, the ability to turn invisible, and combined this lets a 50 nanite cheap vehicle bust most of the vehicles in the game at extreme speed, while being able to easily approach while invisible, and it can abuse that invisibility to rapidly rack up roadkills. If the Flash can't keep up with the ANT or Prowler, that's by design, since it's a cheap one to two man buggy. Fact is the Flash is stupidly powerful for a tiny buggy, and Wraith Cloak pushes it into unfun territory. Sometimes a tank can't even react before the Flash kills it with rear armour shots, and a good Flash driver will steer clear of being run over, and will re-cloak before you can bring your turret to bear from wherever it was pointed. Practicing doesn't help much against an invisible threat, it just makes you paranoid and less effective in combat if you're constantly checking for the rare Wraith Flash.

If you think Vanu are or have ever been "nerfed to obscurity" you clearly haven't seen the stats. Vanu win a significant amount of alerts, and if anything, TR are the underpowered ones by their win rate.

Closing up, there are legitimate reasons for the Flash to be nerfed, and ranting about how everyone else just needs to "git gud and practice" makes you out to be an ***hole, and possibly a Wraith Flash main.

All you've proved is that Harassers are actually light tanks, as opposed to dune-buggy type things.

Your lack of any color to dampen the contrast between the extremes of white and black are a pain for my eyes, and your wall of text not broken up with emotion made reading all of what you said feel like I was reading a Junior High dry text book. It put me to sleep almost as fast too, but hey, you did not see me whining about your typing style until now. See what I mean, if I had let that slide, that would be classified as letting you walk all over me. Yet you call yourself civilized. An attack, no matter how sweetly worded is still an attack. The difference between you and I is I am bold enough to say what needs to be, and I do so unapologetically.

If you or anyone else is still dying to a single Flash, you suck, there is just no other way to put that. There is nothing a Flash has that can possibly kill a vehicle OTHER THAN ITSELF in 1 run; in fact most tools a Flash has need at least 3 with someone on repair. The Fury was already nerfed into the dirt. It used to have like 16+ rounds and could cloak instantly without delay, which actually made them KIND of a threat. But again if you or your gunner were stupid enough to let it lay into your rear at a rate of 2 shots per second you needed to die because that was still like 5 seconds of "THUH-THUH-THUH-THUH--" of warning that you are taking Damage. In my learning stages I used to get reamed taking on tanks because anything passed 5 shots was a Grass Mass and they were sure to mow it. The only bike that is anywhere NEAR a threat like that is a Pillager Flash and they are subject to distance..... If you are using H.E.S.H. rounds or BASIC they fall like confetti, perhaps if you stop trying to lean into A.V. in order to cheese other tanks instead of using SKILL to drop your foe, you would not have as many problems as you do. OH BUT WAIT, what was that? You can do more than be a slacked jawed rube in the event your skills are not up to snuff against the INSECT of all vehicles? Yes, Jenny, it is called vehicular combination! Perhaps if you "GET GOOD" enough with your vehicle to not be a slave to your Engineer, some doors might open some doors for you... *GASP* A.S.P. Options are a thing?! Yes, Ginger, they are! The thing leaves their head exposed... DO THE MATH!!!!

As you say, pointing and clicking is easier than using your thumbs, that means you should have an even easier time against them... If you have someone in your gunner seat worth a lick, and they are on rear duty, WHAT THE TOP GUN IS MADE FOR, your tank will kill the Flash and or Harasser without you paying them any attention, being most of them attack you from the rear... A Flash has a 3 second Cloak delay. It used to be 5, and 5 made it flat out unusable. 3 makes it barely a factor on the field... So you have more than enough time to turn around and kill it. Their momentum has been slowed to 4 or even 5 passes to kill you if you are alone. That is freaking insane when you are dealing with vehicles that can kill you OR your bike in a single hit. If anything Flashes should be buffed!

I did not need to see the Stats I played all 3 Factions, and when I started, I did not start getting steady kills with Vanu until I had started placing Certs. Both T.R. and N.C. were down right deadly out of the Box. The only reason I stuck with Vanu, was their story and style. It is not every day you get a Good Guy in Bad Guy clothing. To this day, Vanu is just now BARELY breaking even with the other two factions, thanks to buffs. Stats? I knew the stats were bull because Vanu's weapons were so garbage most people uses to pad in order to get certs so that they could have a chance at fighting other M.B.T.s. with theirs. Every session I would find no less that 4 Magriders deep in enemy territory at an empty enemy base sucking on base turrets. Even now, our Supernova needs a direct hit in order to really do any damage to infantry. I have hit soldiers 5 and 6 times back to back with splash and they did not die... I will say NOTHING about the comparison of a LASHER to a T7 or Jackhammer.... *Spits*

Playing and looking at Data are two different things. You play Destiny do you not? You should know better. People who play say that unless you like your K/D, do not use the Flash. Very few people can actually use them to the degree it takes to kill large vehicles. Yes you can strap C4 top them and get a revenge kill but that is not only risky, but costly. You cannot do it more than twice, (3 times if you are blessed with membership) before you run out of Nanites considering you need 4 bricks worth for Apex Players. It does not pay to risk placing just 2 because 9 times out of 10, you will have, as I love to say: "Pulled up stupid." You now have to try to take them out on foot, which more often than not leaves-- "--You laying on ya back looking at the roof of the church! Preacher tellin' the truth, and it hurts, uh.."--DMX (You will be missed.) I do not mind in the least when people try to pull them because it takes one shot to detonate them and cram all those points in my pocket.

I disagree. Showing how good you are at something shows it in fact can be done. For those in the player base who want to be able to do the same, they now have an idea where to start and put in the work to attain that level of skill. The weapon systems available to the car coupled with its speed is really what makes it a threat. It is a vehicle that will truly test your aiming skill. If you are up to snuff, it dies, if you are not, It does. In a group, Yes you are going to die if you are alone, but that just means you ventured beyond your vehicles effective range. Tanks are meant to be with a group, and a group of tanks will de-VOUR a troop of cars if everyone has the same skill level.

It is funny, people look at beggars and say they need to work for money in stead of handing them theirs, yet some how they tell the makers of the game should just make it easier because on paper everyone else is not able to do something. Crying that you and a few others on a forum that in NO way represents the majority, that you cannot do something and YOU keep dying, due to your own incompetence and laziness is the very definition of pathetic; and it really needs to stop.

Finally, T-Rumps stupidity is not political nor national, the man is an idiot in every sense of the word, and his foolishness had global implications. I can refer to his stupidity anywhere I please and will do so. T-Rump is synonymous with stupidity. Besides, who are you to censor me? I live in America, I say what I want to, how I want to, in whatever color I want to, with however many faces I choose. You have the same rights, use them.
*Waves Amendments in face*.

Bro literally EVERYONE on the forums uses the default white text against the constant black background, if you have an issue with it take it up with the damn forum makers, don't take it out on me (also the slightly brighter white text was because trying to comment between your text kept making mine the same grey you use, which I personally find hard to read, so I had to colour it back to white. Dunno what was up with that).

My "wall" is broken up by these things called "paragraphs", and I don't particularly want to use emoticons. Honestly, they make you look childish. But, credit where credit is due, as much as it annoys me it isn't my place to criticise your writing and formatting style, you can make things whateve colour you want and use as many emojis as you please, as long as its relatively readable that's fine. But seriously, you are definitely in the minority, making your entire text one colour and using emoticons as frequently as you do. If you feel text in any other format is boring to read, why even bother with the forums, since thats 99% of what's here.

I can be civilised AND call out your typing style for being annoying to me specifically. Debate can be civilised, but I find it hard to remain civilised when you keep antagonising me. I may have declared myself angry at your comment, but you started with insulting and dismissive statements like "Keep on making life harder for yourselves." Your boldness just comes off as being an a**hole when we are trying to have a sensible and rational debate. Opinions are fine, but I feel compelled to answer your insulting rhetoric with my own statements. Telling us to cry is not going to make you the standout voice of the debate.

In one run/mag, sure, but the Fury has a 2.5 second reload, down to 2 with max reload, and with 8 in the chamber the Flash can kill in 2 mags. Granted, it must be from behind, and for the Prowler and Magrider it has to be perfect aim if they don't have extended mags. Otherwise, provided you don't miss, every ground vehicle in the game except the blockade armour sunderer and the Vanguard from anywhere but the rear dies in 3 mags. The Flash unloads its full payload in about 2.8 seconds (so no, not 5 seconds of THUH), and can immediately cloak and run away, usually evading the follow up. then it comes back and does it again, until either the enemy disembarks to repair (And then dies) or gets blown up.

Sure, it isn't a terrifying pandemic like some make it out to be, but fighting an evasive, invisible opponent just isn't fun. And if they group up or pull a rumble seat operator, that damage gets even higher. Not every tank will have a second gunner, and Lightnings don't even have that, not to mention not everyone runs high DPI or has good enough reactions/situational awareness to catch a Flash before it peels off. Not to mention Infantry getting run over by an invisible, 50 nanite menace. Honestly, the sheer cheap cost of a Wraith Flash is part of why it is hated, its far too cheap for an invisible, decent dps AV option.

HEAT rounds aren't usually worth it. You either take AP for the excellent AV potential while still posessing the ability to one shot Infantry, or you take HESH rounds to farm Infantry. Taking the blatantly superior weapon for vehicle warfare isn't "cheese", its common sense if you intend to duel tanks. Heck, its common sense as an all-purpose option over HEAT, since it one hits infantry on direct hits and doesn't neuter your ability to fight enemy vehicles like HESH does. Splash may be more helpful against a Flash, but if you take a niche option exclusively to counter Flash and don't intend to use it in its niche... well, you look like an idiot when the enemy Lightning with AP mops the floor with you while you try to kill it with HESH. Oh, but you'll kill any Flashes that try to ambush you, so it's a win win, right?

I'm not going to pretend I'm a particularly good player. Heck, I don't even encounter Wraith Flashes that often. But people don't like them for a good reason. Stereotypes don't just pop out of thin air because someone dislikes something or can't beat it, there are usually semi-decent reasons for it existing. Sure, you can kill the Flash in an instant, but an "Insect" you can't see and only have a short time to react to and attack is not nearly as easy to kill as you think. Maybe you're "just that good" but not everyone is a god tier player like you obviously are.

And your blatantly insulting followup statement... Well. "Vehicular Combination" I assume means "Get some friends 4head" and yes, that would certainly help. But you aren't always superglued to another vehicle, and canny Flash mains will deliberately target lonely, vulnerable enemy vehicles, aka easy targets, so I suspect they won't bother you after you superhumanly blow them to bits the first time.

"Git Gud" is an argument that doesn't really work when the other side can use invisible hacks to slip beneath your notice and then slip out again, and I fail to see how ASP options work in this situation (there are none that I can think of that allow for equipping something that can better deal with Flashes, unless you count AV grenades on Engi, but why do that when you can just shoot them, right?). If anything, ASP just makes the Flash even more obnoxious because you can HALVE the price. Yes, for the small price of waiting exactly one minute, you can have not one, but TWO Flashes for 50 nanites!

And the head exposed thing... sure, you could use a Sniper and blow their heads off, but that is a lot harder to do on a fast moving target that could just run you over, and would be inferior to, say, shooting them with your tank. Its a lot harder to "do the math" when you've jumped out of your TANK to try and quickscope the invisible scooter. Seriously, who takes Infil to drive or gun a tank? Maybe that isn't what you're on about, but suffice to say, most people will be using Engie to drive a tank, so aiming for their head rather than using the TANK... yeah seems like a dumb option. Your alternatives to "skill" are dumb.

The top gun is not, in fact, purely for rear duty. Its main use is as supplemental DPS, as its often the difference between winning and losing a fight. It isn't exclusively pointed at your *** to ward off enemies, and if you're using it like that, you're literally wasting its potential. The Harasser, as has already been stated, is a tanky thing, and your top gun (which by all rights should have lower damage output than your main gun) won't be able to kill it alone, and any Harasser worth a damn would probably avoid the obviously paranoid top gunner, especially if it starts taking shots at them on approach. As has been said, the Harasser can take a lot of punishment, and its speed makes it harder to hit to boot.

As I said earlier, it takes 2.8-ish seconds to fully unload the Fury, presumably the longest duration of any AV Flash weapon. Thats just .2 seconds off the Cloak delay, assuming you fire immediately. And if the Flash keeps moving while it attacks, peeling off and fleeing rather than staying still behind you, it'll be a lot harder to hit, and then even harder once it turns invisible. Flashes may die in one hit, but if they can safely avoid that one hit by coming in from different angles, abusing their invisibility and small profile, plus the fact you're usually focused elsewhere when a Flash strikes, they can easily manage those 4 or 5 passes in competent hands.

And if they can't manage it? They can try again on someone else, because they're dirt cheap for their power. If a Harasser dies instantly, they're kaput after 2 pulls without any time to get back nanites, but a Flash? You can literally spam 15 of the things before you run out of nanites, not even including the extra Flash you get every minute. You might be a god at killing Flashes, sure, but not everyone is willing to be super paranoid at all times, and sooner or later they'll nail someone. Or just run over a bunch of infantry by a sunderer, which isn't hard to do given you're almost entirely invisible.

The stats do matter. Without them, we are purely a court of opinion and experience, which is highly subjective. We could argue day in and day out about the viability of Harassers with and without Rumble Repair, as we have in fact done. It is only with the aid of statistics, on top of these opinions and experiences, that we can start to form a full picture of the situation. I, for instance, barely play the Harasser, so I am reliant on others with more experience for their opinions. I can comment on them, but I can hardly offer up my own.

Speaking of experience, the ones you describe are also subjective. I found Vanu the strongest out of the box (outside of vehicles), but that is down to personal preference. I don't see the Vanu as "Good Guys in Bad Guys clothing", but thats just our opinions. But your idea that Vanu is "BARELY" breaking even... is just factually wrong.

https://ps2alerts.com/

According to the statistics tab, which has been tracking since the start of the year, it is the TR who have the lowest win rate, while Vanu breaks even with NC overall and they win more often by a hefty margin during Primetime. In terms of individual power compared to the other factions, they could possibly be weaker, true, but Vanu often finds themselves the Underpopped faction yet they still win. This is why people thing the Vanu are OP, and why your Incredibly Subjective Experience (TM) doesn't really hold water as part of your argument.

No vehicle is particularly potent without some certing, especially MBTs which benefit heavily from access to AP, a better topgun, a good chassis/defence/ability slot upgrade, etc. Maybe people used to do that, but I'm willing to bet other factions would do that too, and still do that probably. If you saw that many Magriders every session doing that... honestly, that sounds like a pretty skewed experience. All tank guns on all empires require direct hits to do meaningful damage to Infantry, thats why HESH gets spammed as the multiple hits of splash can pick people off. But it can be healed through, and if you aren't hitting close enough the splash will be much weaker. And lastly, the Lasher vs other guns is an entirely different argument, and all serve their own niche. I'd argue the Jackhammer is the worst of the 3, and the Lasher the best, but thats just mee. Again. SUBJECTIVE.

Playing all 3 factions does not make you an all knowing god. Or else I'd be one too.

I mean, Destiny doesn't exactly have that much data that we CAN track. We can track weapon usage, which is more indicative of the current meta and what is "good". Destiny has a much more diverse weapon lineup and is more varied and mobile in its moment to moment combat, its generally agreed upon what the current "meta" is, plus there are no vehicles to skew the numbers in the PvP arena. In Planetside, there is no such "meta" - people argue over which gun is best all the time, but your class choice affects what you can do, and invisibility is far more potent in Planetside where the infamous "clientside" can **** your ability to fight back or react, while in Destiny, its usually far more noticeable. Theres a lot more to consider in a game as open and messy as Planetside, with so much data available to track and interpret, wheras with Destiny its always going to be Infantry fights, you can usually expect certain hot weapons and subclasses to feature, and the only thing that can suddenly run you over after being invisible is a Spectral Blades roaming super.

Fact is its a lot easier to tell whats hot and what works in Destiny, and you barely even need the tracking data to do it. Just look at the patch notes, check in to one of the videos from the far bigger community, or experience it ingame. Planetside is far less friendly about this stuff, and Destinys New Player Experience is already kind of a mess (but at least they try...)

I can perform way better in Destiny PvP than I can in Planetside Infantry combat - compared to the Aim Assist heavy Destiny Planetsides messy bullet mechanics don't really compare. And then there's the games combined arms nature to consider.

As I've already said, the stereotype exists for a reason. I'd figure you wouldn't use the Flash if you LIKED your K/D, the way you phrased it makes it seems like using the Flash boosts your K/D. Sure, few can use them with a solid enough skill level, but the invisibility helps close that skill gap. C4 Flashes are rarer than Wraith ones, and serve an entirely different purpose, which isn't what everyone complains about, honestly. If anything, C4 Flashes are weak. Somebody rolled up with 8 C4 on one and didn't kill a Colossus. Mental.

Using the Destiny mention as an example, I could watch a pro youtuber solo flawless a raid. Doesn't mean I could do it, even if I wanted to. Maybe its down to superior hardware, a lack of reason to ever achieve that level of skill when the game is not my job, or maybe I just want to consume the content rather than make it myself. How many people have seen these videos of yours? Are they focused on the fact you were ganking Flashes or were said Flashes only occaisionally showing up? You can aspire to a pro's level, but not everyone can achieve that level of skill, or even will want to. I don't want to become a pro Harasser, I want to shoot people with my tank. It can be done, sure, but how many will either want to do it or actually be able to?

The Harassers speed and power are what make it a threat, ok. So why are we even arguing? We are practically in agreement, aside from the matter of the Harasser being rather tanky IMO. Oh right, you said so in a rather condescending manner that riled me, thats why I'm bothering with this conversation.

In a group, sure, tanks will win. But that assumes the tanks and cars are duelling fairly. Harassers usually flank and, well, Harass, picking off weaker targets and fleeing when faced with force, even in herds. Not every tank can or will want to stick with the group, and the group won't always save them if they get ganked. Add in the games horrible lack of communication options and, well.

Like I said, I haven't seen many (or, well, any) who claimed that the heal alone was what made the Harasser "broken" to them. I personally had absolutely no issue with Harassers, was content to leave Rumble Repair as it was, and was of the mind that if Rumble would be so broken on the Chimera, just make it worth basically nothing! They didn't have to remove it entirely, but they did, because they were lazy, and I doubt they would walk it back. People on this thread may be crying, but I, sir, am not one of them. Honestly, I couldn't care less, I'm just here for the debate, discussion, and slamming of blatantly wrong opinions. I'd love for you to introduce these people who thought the Harasser needed Rumble Repair removing to me, I would happily quiz them on if this change has made their lives any easier. (spoiler - it wouldn't have, they're probably still crying).

And calling people lazy, incompetent, and pathetic doesn't endear people to you - if I was a lesser man, I'd probably just write off your opinion as stupid and pointless. But I'm willing to listen, consider, and comment on your ideas (unlike some people on this forum). This forum might not be the majority, but between this and the Reddit, its the main official FRONT of the community. Its where the devs usually post stuff. We represent a good portion of the community, at least the part thats willing to go all the way out here to discuss Planetside 2. I don't think the devs got the idea to nerf the Harasser from the forums. I don't know where they get most of their ideas honestly. It certainly isn't from the game, since there are no moderators there anymore.

Could you sound any more American? I don't mean that in an insulting way, you just come off as very "freedom of speech". Also, your colourful text just puts me more in mind of a tricolor than America. France, more than anything. "Hon Hon Hon, I am ze 'arraseur, I 'ave come to 'arass you, Hon Hon Hon!" (I use an emoji here because I am making a blatant joke. I don't use them that often, and I respect my right to use them only when I want to. I also respect my right to talk in whatever colour I want, even if I don't want to change it from the default. I understand you like to use emojis and cyan, so I won't insult or disparage your preferred text formatting anymore.)

I do get what you're trying to put across, but Drumpf being a ******* on a global scale has very little to do with Planetside OR these forums, and politics rarely gets discussed here. I'm British, so I know what its like to suffer under the yoke of a colossally stupid leader (ever heard of Brexit, its incredibly effing dumb and I have to live with it), but I'd rather like to pretend it doesn't exist when discussing on a forum for one of my favourite games. I want to "censor" you because I don't feel a conversation about the viability of the Harasser is a good place to talk about the gigantic idiot who somehow became president. You don't need to bring up a time I'd rather pretend didn't happen to explain most people are idiots, I know that already. TBF that paragraph wasn't that necessary in your response, It didn't add much I thought. I might not have a right to censor you, but I do have a right to request you not bring him up again. Please.

Out of interest Harassers were classified as a "Light Assault Buggy" in PlantSide 1, which you could access with the "Assault Buggy" certification. The Harasser in PlanetSide 2 has a more enclosed cockpit than the one in the original game.

I know to some the Harasser is a vehicle that should get wasted in combat by tanks. The thing is unlike the Sunderer that provides a spawn point, or the ANT that you can build a base with - all the Harasser adds to the game is combat. And if you end up saying to people: "here is a vehicle that is only useful in combat, but of course its not any good in combat because its a buggy" - they just wont use it imo.

Others in thread have made good points about reasons behind the stats in the original post, the things mentioned are part of the reason the tanks end up with more kills each time they are pulled; but I think the biggest reason is simply because they are more powerful in combat.

Before I begin I do want to say, I read both of your responses and the last one forced me to 'Edit' this one a bit to address both in one response. I did everything I could here to try to keep that moron out of the White House, so I bare none of the shame. Brexit was not your doing, and so long as you did your part to prevent it you can hold your head high in the event everything goes MAN-pear shaped. You will be able to say: "See? I told you." and it will have merit because of your efforts. Here is praying you did your part, if not, learn from that hard lesson; though that you do not strike me as one of those people. That being said, burying your head in the sand and pretending it did not happen is the absolute worst thing you can do. Americans did that for the better part of a decade with racism. Then T-Rump made it popular to be an out of the closet racist. Enter 2020 and we now see Racism has gone nowhere it simply was not talked about. Everyone simply pretended it did not exist. All the "Let it go." speeches I had to endure while people joked about the N word.... You might be able to get away with pretending ignorance does not exist, but I cannot afford to. I am the wrong color and far too angry. It starts off small. Like here with people not taking responsibility for their own weakness, and grows.

Stupidity gets a new beginning when people forget the founders of it. Hold it close so you can remember and end it now, instead of being forced to relive it later... --Exileant
I am sure someone somewhere probably said something similar way back when, but I prefer to use my own brain to think and I despise quoting other people.

Yes, and I do not whine that it hurts my eyes until they start up with their stupidity about my type style. You have a choice, you can color your text. They gave you the option to do this, so no, I do not need to take it up with them. You only feel antagonized because you currently fall into the lane of whiner that I described. (And believe me I will explain what I mean.) People only get upset when they feel something relates to them negatively. They then perceive that as a personal attack. You started with the personal attack of calling me an ***hole, which was far from civil. This makes you a hypocrite, because while I will point out the fact that your skill is lacking, I am not going to curse you in any shape form or fashion. THAT is true civility. While I can be cutting to those who deserve it, I do so with facts and visual examples. The humiliation of showing the exact opposite of what they preach being done comes naturally. I do not do so by being ignorant. The word of today is going to be perceive and its variations. You perceive Smiles as Childish, I consider them not only fun, but a way to solidify feeling behind a statement since that is often a major problem when it comes to texting. We read with our own feeling so, on a good day a friend responding with: "G.T.H.O. LOL!" may be taken as joyful banter. A bad day can see to it starting a fight. Smiles easily start removing tension and further clarify how I meant something. I am a member of many forums, and I can tell you now the few people here who do not like the way I type are in the extreme minority. Regardless, you find it annoying, I can respect your opinion. I find weakness annoying and people who cry about an easily dispatched bike and a LOUD toy car that, to date, can still be on hit killed if you do it right, fall into that category. Respect mine.

That is the problem, everyone who is here crying is doing so about a car that you can hear coming 1000 meters away and a bike that can be heard 500 meters away, BOTH capable of being ran over I might add, like it is some terrible demon of the deep that can just show up and kill you without warning, and that is pathetic. You are judging the vehicles on your own limited experience. Shooting at an invisible buffet of points may not be fun for YOU, that is your perception; however just because it is not fun for you, does not mean it is not fun to me and many others. I enjoy the... I cannot even say challenge at this point when it comes to killing bikes.... So lets just say I relish the opportunity of killing them when I find them. I tip my helmet to those that are BOLD enough to launch an attack on me because it lets me know they are trying to step outside the box by attacking me with the weakest vehicle in the game.

They are my saving grace. When I get Mosh-pitted by two tanks a car and a bike, I abandon my vehicle KNOWING I at least got that bike. Hahahaha! Who cares if they only cost 50 Nanites, get on one and post some videos of you ripping armor with ease on your basic bike. I do not want to see newbie kills either. I want to see B.R. A.S.P. 100's falling. If you suck with it, you have no right to talk about it, because the people who use them to the degree that they do, put in the hours and worked hard to learn them.

Final point of this section. 2.8 and 2.8 is a total of 5.2, so I undershot that by a full .2 of a second. This is not counting the time it takes to cloak, Disengage, find a new vector, and then resume for your second clip. Heck even if you are a newbie or idiot that forewent that crucial step and decide to simply cloak and remain behind them, you still have to add the 3 second delay pushing the total time to 7 seconds. In just 2.5 seconds a Prowler can kill you 4 times, a Magrider can 3, lastly a Vanguard can kill you 2ice by skill and once by the driver sneezing without the safety engaged...

That is EXACTLY why people die to the toy car. They only read what H.E.A.T and H.E.S.H. does and rarely go passed that into the testing phase usually falling prey to idiot Youtubers saying that something is barely worth it. (T7 Chaingun anybody) H.E.S.H. for some vehicles actually does more damage than H.E.A.T.. H.E.S.H. just has a slower reload by comparison. So NO, it far from stops you from being able to take on A.V. Lightning or anything else. Land all your shots and make them miss one of theirs and you will win all day long.

H.E.A.T. rounds are FOR Harassers. Cars are indeed fast moving, and if they are skilled you will miss, but that fast reload keeps you in the fight. Mess up by landing all of your shots, and the car will be dead before it's first Vulcan clip is expelled. I will not even get into the Spray and Pray benefit that it has for Flashes. As you say below, you are not a particularly good player. All you have been doing is regurgitating what a few friends, and this forum half filled with lightweights have been force feeding you. The whole REASON I took up the flash was because when I first started the opinion about the Flash was reversed. Everyone here was saying the Flash was so weak it HAD NO PURPOSE. I knew if it was the weakest thing around and I put in my time to get good with it, it would be the last thing to ever be altered by means of crybabies calling to Nerf. It was a one hit kill so the shame that you died to it in a fully manned M.B.T. would keep their mouth shut, and for YEARS that was the case. It was not until some wannabe pro got their glass HANDED to them, repeatedly, that they cried out in pain due to shame and the arrogant thought process of: "I have been playing this too LONG to have lost like that to this!!! So by default it MUST be overpowered!!!!" and the Developers got tired of hearing them and gave them what they asked for. They destroyed the Flash. Reduced our Fury Magazine by half, 25% Cloak start up, and a 5 second Cloak Delay. It took me and a few others to repeatedly make noise about the unfairness of the situation and eventually scrapping the idea of fighting with the weapons and going on a several month grief tour, strapping C4 to our Flashes and Bombing everything in sight while leaving a note saying: "If our Flashes were usable, we might try to kill you with skill." for them to make them the lame ducks they are today.

Vehicle Combination does not mean you have to do so by the book. That snide remark was not meant to be insulting, but rather a tip on what to do. Vehicular Combination also means what you decide to drive the vehicle with. You do not always have to be an Engineer. Example: A Heavy Assault not only has access to a Scatter Rocket Launcher, A.V. grenades and C4, it also has access to the Thumper, which will peel a person of a bike by accident. If you cannot bring down a Flash with all of that, you deserve to die.

I am not a team player, so sticking to another vehicle never crossed my mind, though it is a viable option. I have just now started seriously training someone to run with me regularly. I prefer running alone, because most people just get in the way or are no help at all... to that end, a lot of things tend to try to take you on by yourself especially bikes, which is why I have a lot of experience killing them.

Being an A.N.T. Driver, I am candy to 90% of players base. Just the way I like it. My goal is to lure people away from their objective and kill them in the distance where only their screams can be heard. Coyote Tactics. When it comes to Flashes, yes, I CAN cloak to evade them, but that is a waste, considering they can cloak too and theirs comes back. It is a simple matter of swapping to my gun and dispatching them, or chasing them until I run them over. up close they are easily spotted even while cloaked. (That was my main gripe about Wraith, it is not a true Cloak. Pros spot me almost instantly. It is almost as bad as what they did to the Sunderer's Cloak Field. That big tail bubble of distortion is a freaking beacon, like what is the point now? It was a waste of certs. People are better off running Deployment Shield at least that does not give away your position while you are next to a wall...) Heaven help them if I am running Torque.

One, 'Get Good' applies to everything. The strong realize this and it pushes them to be better. Two, again, the bike is not invisible, it is see through, and it is very easy to spot the big piece of roaming glass once you know what to look for. Three, it is not that the alternatives are dumb, it is you just failed to see them. While the ones you listed are in fact viable options, (I have gotten out and popped a few Flash Drivers chasing my Sunderer with a Sniper Rifle) I understand takes skill, so I require you to actually turn on your brain and think, WHAT IN THE A.S.P. TREE WOULD GIVE YOU ACCESS TO SOMETHING THAT WOULD REQUIRE LITTLE SKILL TO USE WILL DROP A PERSON WITH EASE AS WELL AS DO MODERATE DAMAGE TO THE BIKE ITSELF!?!?

The MAIN answer is: A shotgun.... Shotgun Secondary for your Engineer. I got tired of waiting.

A Full-Auto Shotgun only requires you aim a little high in the direction of the bike and spray from the hip. You will peel them off the back of it. If the bike is damaged you will at times take the bike as well. Please note this is just the A.S.P. way. A Cross bow that has finished a MANY tanks in my line of work is the most basic way. If it can kill a tank you better believe it will kill a bike. (I even manage to finish Harassers with it and sort of recently, a Liberator flying too low. Now THAT is how you humiliate people. This netted INSTANT private hate-mail and a rant about how Over-powered the cloak on an Infiltrator was. You would think the Crossbow would have been their focus, but nope, CRISS-CROSS, He went for the Cloak. I was delightfully shocked. Hahaha! Shame makes you do and say odd things.) It will take you a second to get used to the arc but once you realize that over compensation for the arc is your problem, you will relish moments where you lure bikes to you on foot and enjoy leaping over them as try to roadkill you after taking so much damage with them trying to shoot you. That is 8 ways you can kill a bike with ease in this section alone, and there are more. Your problem is you are narrow minded. Broaden your horizon and THINK.

Wasting potential? That is the craziest thing I have read all day. Alas the day is still young.... It takes nothing for the Turret to turn around and lay into whatever you are shooting at if you need it to. If you are not running around with your 'Hat' on backwards you are just asking for a Harasser to kill you; and that is my point right there. The rest of the idiots dying are doing JUST THAT. They run around not watching their back and get creamed for it. It is not the car or the bike that is at fault, it is the person and their Gunner not doing what they need to be doing. Heck this is something you should be doing even if you are fighting tanks because it takes NOTHING for a Pro who will 9 times of 10 be running Vehicle Stealth to sneak up behind you. If you had your Hat on backwards the sudden sustained fire would warn if you were not on com. Even if that was not enough, the damage they would start taking would prompt them to fire early, thus revealing their identity on radar giving you a fighting chance.

If they manage to dodge the dodging hails of take shells top-gun Sprays, vehicles that can turbo over them, if they survive 4 or 5 passes they are some how abusing their situation by having a cloak?! Are you reading yourself? If they have gone through the very definition of the Tribulation to kill you, that was skill and they deserve praise. To you I seem like an Angel of the Lord with my ability with the Flash, right? Well this me saying, that if I have to make 4 or 5 passes to kill someone they had ample time to heal themselves and kill me 6 times over. Either you get them in 3 or you are done. Your Cloak will not last past 3 passes thanks to the start up charge of 2 ticks and that is fully upgraded. You do not have to be paranoid to be on the look out. Your problem is you fear them. When you fear something your mind bolsters it and you feel helpless. Your body will make that a reality. That truth goes beyond a video-game.

So what if they eventually nail someone? At the cost of how many points awarded to their killers? So what if they decide to run people over at a parked Sunderer? That simply means the Sunderer parked in a terrible spot. As I have always said, if you get ran over by a cloaked A.N.T. or a Flash, that was your fault. Why would you be dumb enough to run out in the open? To save time? Okay. Well you knew the risk. *Splat*
Say you DO get ran over by something at that location, only a rube would spawn right back there. The smart thing would be to spawn somewhere close and drive back in something you can actually SAVE THE SUNDERER with....

If they spawn 40 bikes that is their business not yours. You do not know how many times they got killed before that kill you saw. Your business is killing them when you see them. I personally want them to as many as they can. Do you know how much they are worth per kill? Call 5 at a time and drive them in a 'V' formation so I can get a Strike when I bowl them over and land my Bounties that much faster. I started this game just like everyone else. Weak. I learned, I grew strong. It was only after I got good with something that I would come back and say if it was unbalanced or not.

[/QUOTE]
Find and Read Vanu's story. Good guys in Bad Guy Clothing.

To me that is total bull crap and an excuse to ignore video evidence, as many on this forum have done. Uuuuuuuugh Stats matter, and this is what is dominating. Uuuuuuugh, your video proof of you doing something is not evidence even though you made 3 music videos for us doing just what we said could not be dooooOOOOOOoooone. Uuuuuuuugh, since we had not thought of that and it is not being done on a massive enough scale for Youtubers to tell us to do it and we think we should not need to have to learn something new to do what needs to be done, it is the developers fault, and we should be pandered too. Uuuuuuuuugh! It is impossible for us to just suck, something must be wrong with the gaaaAAAAAaaaame. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaa!!!!!

Of coarse you say that now that Vanu has decent weapons and defenses. You were not around when Vanu was Nerfed into the dirt because, of ALL PEOPLE, VANGUARD Drivers with shields that made their tank immortal and 1000 extra Hit points flat out lied on the forums about not being able to kill Magriders. Magriders moved 10 Kph slower is all directions. It was so bad a Vanguard only had to hit you ONCE from the FRONT and they could simply swap to a Bottle Rocket and finish you with rounds to spare. If they hit you in the rear you might as well get out because that was 60% of your life gone. A Harasser? Now THAT was dang near impossible. Their Vulcan was MUCH more powerful and our Supernova shot like it had to be cleaned before every shot, even MAXED. Yet some of us STILL managed to learn how to kill them.

The main reason Vanu is killing it in on the boards is because Vanu spent so long with garbage weapons, we had to learn to make crap work for us. If you give a Guerilla Soldier the a weapon that is on par with their enemy they will make that weapon look like it was forged from an Angels harp that fell from heaven. Like you said. It boils down to drive. You are a casual player, so you do not have the will or interest to get your skills to the levels I am talking about. That is true for most of the people here. They are casual Gamers. There is nothing wrong with that in general, but if a competition gamer flies by and destroys everything in their wake, it is not fair for you to cry about it; and for dang sure do not try to mess with their fun. by calling for a Nerf. Just say: "That is their gift. Congrats on the skill." And move on." If you find you are losing too much, understand it is time for you to up your game.

It is a fact that a T7 is better than most of the weapons in the game, there is no situation a Lasher can stand up to it unless the T7 is not pointed at it or the enemy player is otherwise cheating. Stats are garbage that really only shows what the sheep deem popular and is not to be taken seriously at all past just that. There are too many variables missing to make any meaningful judgements unless you take human behavior out of the equation.
In Destiny, last I checked The Suros is somehow the King of kills, every time I went into Trials 2 of 3 people were using it. Next to nobody uses Sweet Business though in spite if it being the most powerful weapon in the game. When Jotunn came out it was a devastator in the Crucible. Until a lone Titan showed everyone how to dodge it. All of the crying that it was Over Powered stopped almost over night because nobody could land a shot with it.... Everything seems overpowered until you learn how to fight it....

The key phrase was. "If you were a lesser man--" I am a competitive gamer. The last thing I need is for the entire forum to actually put what I say into play because then, I have a problem. Only the good few take the time to read my thesis response and they benefit from it. I mainly type to the Tech Crew so that they have an inside eye to what is really going on. The lesser skip over, the lazy tune out, most of the casual move on. I usually get approached on P.S.N. about something I wrote and asked to explain further or am thanked because something helped. You are a mystery, you read, comprehend and respond like a beast, yet you claim to be a casual player. You are DEFINITELY in the minority here. I typically have a few that can hang with a bit, but by paragraph 3 they have devolved into blithering idiots who can only curse and who seemingly stopped reading midways through yet somehow still felt that responding with length would somehow save face... So I have to give you props there. I tip my Helmet to you. By the by, that cool blue was so very soothing to my eyes. You should consider making it your staple color. Eh? EeeeeeEEH?? No? Okay...

Wow thats a lot of text im sure more than just I am not reading because it eye torture.

Tank k/ds are high because of camping and HESH farming. Tanks had no chance vs. a harasser with continuous repair back then, now they have a chance. Yes Prowler is still OP but killing a Harasser is harder for other tanks like Magrider and Vanguard since their fire rate and ammo velocity is so slow. A Harasser can easily kill a tank without missing a single shot because Vulcan is also overpowered.

Exactly, back then. This is now. Prowlers Glow Red with Reload Speed Boosters and can Lock-Down and deploy a Riot Shield. Magriders got the Omni-Directional Booster that I pitched and begged for, and Vanguards got a replenishing Shield that for 1000 points Nullifies all bolstered weak spot damage back to standard. Not even C4 can kill them instantly anymore. Harassers did not need to be bothered. Although come to think of it, considering I never run with an Engineer on back when I drive one, because that is a HUGE waste of space, I have no idea why anyone other than Valkyrie Pilots are crying honestly. All they does is force a 2 manned car to find the nearest shielded base to make repair. Not hard when your top speed is between 120-196 KPH.

It is just the PRINCIPLE at this point!

rumble seat reps still exist for ground vehicles, but you need ASP or 1100 certs to do it now... or both.

or a teammate to knife your engi with the electrotech implant in valks.

1100 certs - Punisher
ASP - ???

I know others have responded already, but what is your reaction to the Vehicle K/D - which is how many other vehicles are destroyed on average each time a vehicle of that type is spawned at the vehicle pad.

Before the removal of rumble repairs the Harasser only a little more than half the vehicle kills of the Magrider and Prowler - in other words they kill almost double the number of vehicles each time they are spawned.

Don't mean to be cutting, but as its the topic of the thread - if tanks had "no chance" against the Harasser as you put it, how were the Magrider and Prowler getting all those vehicle kills. So if the Tank Vs Harasser heavily favoured the Harasser, was it that the tanks were getting extra ANT/Sunderer/Flash kills to boost their vehicle kill stats to get them to a significantly higher level than the Harasser? Was it that the Harasser was bumping up its vehicle kills with those tanks that had no chance against it; then they struggled to get kills against ANT/Sunderer/Flashes - therefore explaining the lower vehicle kills?

I know there have been responses already, I'm just interested to hear the response of those like yourself (Tr34) or others with this view.