[Vehicle] Harassers Vs Tanks - Settled with Stats

I read quite a few posts like this, but if all the things you say are true; its tanky or tankier than a lightning or MBT, powerful guns which in most cases outperform that of other vehicles, hard to hit, as much firepower as a tank and has the best of all worlds. Then why does it get significantly less vehicle kills and infantry kills on average each time it is pulled compared to the other ground combat vehicles?

In other words, what's you reaction to the stats on the first post of the thread?

I don't know why they refuse to put harasser in it's proper place. Make it much weaker (~1750h-2k hp), heavily affected by AV splash and reduce the price to 150 or 200. I wouldn't even mind if they decided to give it some shield hp to encourage skirmishing. Say 1500 armor 500 shield. At most 3 lightning rounds/1 viper clip should kill it. Improve handling if needed. Make it fast and agile with good damage but very limited survivability at a more throwaway level of cost. It should also take damage (~300hp) from roadkilling maxes but not infantry.

And nerf the bloody flash. 50 nanites for similar dps + cloak on a solo vehicle.

Sorry, but there's so much BS in there.
The Harassers guns are not as good as a tanks. By far. Especially not MBT level.
It isn't tanky. I discussed this in my other thread.
Example: Lightning AP vs Harasser: Harasser = dead if the Lightning driver doesn't suck *** aka can turn his tank. Again refer to my point skill gap.
And some more minor stuff that is similar to these points.

Harasser main alert!

Lol they have the same weps as mbts. You can 1 clip a sunderer with the boombox. Have you heard of vulcan harassers? I bet you main in one.

It takes 3 AP vanguard shots to kill a tank from the rear - about 11.25s. The vulcan for example will shred the tank in under 1/4th of the time. Do the math yourself.

On top of that, it takes 3 shots to kill a harasser - just as much as an MBT - without even counting rumble repairs. So yeah, it's tanky.

https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Titan-150_AP

Interesting example. But no. Maybe its true if we consider the lightning is a super skilled tryhard and the harasser is a complete noob who has 20 mins of gameplay. But yeah, the harasser always wins. And fun fact, the tank is slower than the harasser, that includes turning.

Banshee VS Heavy. Banshee = dead if the Heavy doesn't suck*** aka can aim his decimator properly.

Yeah, you're ridiculous dude. The skill gap of using op weps.

Just say you're a ******** harasser main that has nothing of substance to add.

Does it? If so, that's a good question someone should look into.

I'm confused how pulling out only K/D demonstrates anything other than the fact you've not done any research or are trying to mask actually important stats that contradict what you're saying.

K/D can easily be farmed or manipulated in many ways. Using it as the basis of your argument is pretty silly and discredits your opinion. While it's fair to use as support, it's not a reliable stat to base your whole analysis on.

Tbh the game doesn't even measure all the stats we'd need to do a fair and throughout comparison. In any case it's pretty clear in a fight or even through vr testing that the harasser does far more than simply harass.

Am I right in thinking you originally said this:

Then read the stats on the first post, didn't like what you saw, then said this?:

Yes the VKPU of most harasser guns is less or equal to the lightning AP guns. The only real execption is the halberd, which does just slightly better than Lightning AP guns.

You can use Voidwell to see for yourself, harassers aren't really killing that much more vehicles than lightnings are. Vehicles in general don't actually kill that much and it's always exaggerated by infantry players.

For example, during the alert on emerald just 2 hours ago, The ESF AI noseguns everyone rages about scored a total of 136 kills (36 TR, 67 NC, 33 VS). The NC only LMG GD-22S scored 174 kills.

https://voidwell.com/ps2/alerts/17/4003318/weapons

not quite. I originally saw this post a while back and even commented about the clickbait title. Not entirely sure what your reply was supposed to do but confirm the fact you've got nothing of value to say.

So rumble seat on harasser do not have any more use in game.
It only point back, stability when shooting on rumble seat is non existing, you cant scare off any libs when they attack you or plains with no repair, you can shoot once or twice on thanks and run far far away.

They better remove all weapons from it and change its name to "Recreational Speeder" coz at the moment its only good for two thing, to wait for someone to kill you or to speed yourself and hit something to get killed.

You guys are being overdramatic. Now you need to experiment what you can do with the rumble seat. You can put any infantry unit in there, so experiment with the comboes. I would try putting an LA or an HA or an Engineer in the back. When a fully loaded up Harasser goes in for the attack, the LA and HA can hop out and be the needed distraction or damage dealer, depending on who the tank targets. Boom, you have a good use for the seat. When you have the Engineer, you can be more defensive with people chasing you. Drop some tank mines when you roll by the tank or when another Harasser is chasing you. Boom. Medic and Infiltrator are much less useful, but you can use the Medic to revive you when you ultimately die to your shenanigans. He hops out first, you blow up, he revives you. Infiltrator is useless.

And for every class, you can give them transport. Add another rumble seat so that you can have even more comboes.

No drama. Just truth.

Instead of nerfing Striker they nerfed Valk and Har. Valk was no treat (from nerf before and especially after adding rockets for non repairing) if any enemy air is in the air if they are not TR. So now its still possible to go with 3 strikers on Valk, but now your forced to put not 3 but 4 coz repair seat do not exist. Rely nice development of situation.

Lets see about use of seat.
Infiltrator inside harasser? No point.
Max in harasser? Yes if your want to give other faction points.
Any other class? only with mines or c4. And it will probably result of harasser and all passengers getting killer. If you pull a vehicle you pull to play on it, not to use c4. Har-s are not needed 4 c4. Youl probably have better results with flash instead.

What is the point of it if its primary ability is obstructed. Will heavy still be heavy with no shield? Medic with no revive? Harasser if you do not harass? I do understand balancing things, but "lets just turn it off ,it will be a pain to balance it slowly" from dev-s is a road to nowhere. If we only get nerfs with no improvement in game then there will not be anything fun left for players. No epic moments. No crazy stunts.

So when you talk about versatility of gameplay, please check first if there is one before calling out drama.

Its simple. The Valk and Harasser can overexpose and live. If you are on the ground and you are trying to shoot down a Valk, its next to impossible because they could repair the damage much faster than you could deal it. Nerfing a few weapons doesn't stop the fact that aircrafts feel like tanks because you can't stop them, only deter them.

Also, I'm not saying you should use the Harasser solely for C4... I'm saying that you CAN use the RUMBLE SEAT RIDER as a helper to dealing with vehicles. I'm saying its not pointless. And the Harasser can still harass, and thats what its supposed to do. You run drivebys on people, you get out. If you have 2 Harassers, you can stay. If you have a Harasser and a flash, you can stay. If you have a Harasser and a Heavy shooting the tank or sundy or whatever, you can stay. But if its just you and your gunner, you should harass.

Sure sounds like drama, given you are declaring "the Harasser is dead! It is now useless forevermore despite multiple people still using Harassers to great effect!" Also the Striker isn't exactly broken. Its just the best AA RL we have, because the others are all frankly garbage tier at doing anything beyond deterrence unless you land a lucky Decimator shot.

He said Infil was pointless, MAX has some utility for additional AV, AA, or AI fire, and a RL heavy has use. Granted all the others benefit from mines or C4 but the rumble seat is not automatically useless now you can't repair from it. And Striker Valks were rare enough already, literally never seen one. Also if YOU pull a Harasser, you're likely the one driving or gunning, because it's a lot simpler than finangling to let someone else drive.

Removing Rumble Repair doesn't magically make the Harasser obsolete, nor was it the selling point of the Harasser in the first place. It's a fast attack buggy with solid armour values and potential DPS output. To put it on the level of a Heavy with no shield or a Medic with no rez would require, say, removing the turbo or reducing its speed to extremely slow levels. I do agree that they could have taken it a bit more carefully - there absolutely was a way to reconcile rumble repairs with the Chimera, even if it was to nerf them specifically on the Chimera to nothing, but they saw enough of a reason to remove the repairs outright and assumed it wouldn't affect viability by that much.

When you declare a vehicle useless because of one major change to a side functionality, maybe check if you're overexaggerating the vehicles supposed "uselessness" before calling it the truth.

90% of cases when a buggy with a sudden attack in the back or flank takes lightning - the fault of the lightning position, instead of the buggy, it could have been done by an ant, and of course by a paratrooper with c4. Of course, 2 lightning bolts are stronger than any buggy if they drive smart and together. In this, all multi-seat cars are inferior to them.

For a person who has spent about 800 hours driving an sunder: 70% of the buggies in the game are medium and short-range vehicles. One main tank needs 3 magazines from a machine gun, half for a buggy. (this is with only one turret) At close range, the buggy runs the risk of being crushed by any battering ram, even regardless of the terrain. It is just as easily suppressed by the rapid-fire anti-aircraft artillery unit. Can the buggy run away? Where to? To the base behind the gates or to allied tanks. An armored personnel carrier can do the same. Sometimes the battle between these units looks like this: a repair grenade, an engineer under an armored personnel carrier (everyone is tired of sitting down with a c4), and sometimes an armored personnel carrier chases after a completely burnt-out buggy. garage. Open armored vehicle 90% of the buggy is not a terrible threat - mines + hedgehogs + 2 towers of armored vehicles = the buggy has little potential. Lightning is more dangerous in this regard - it will stand at a distance of 500+ meters and replay with alpha damage if the player is good. For mobile armored vehicles, a single tank is no more difficult target than a buggy. In addition, an armored personnel carrier with a battering ram removes about 70% of the health of two-seater tanks (and an ant can kick and throw them into the afterburner), and a buggy is a very situational vehicle. The long tube buggy is not very versatile. Sorry for the transliteration. There are 2 problems in the vehicles game: the peacemaker and the red tank, everything else is balanced. Against aviation, the buggy is very, very vulnerable, more than lightning and the more sunder.

Always this meaningless argument.

An example:
We introduce the Redeemer from Unreal Tournament into the game. A micro-nuclear missile that OHK's everything in a 30m radius around it that isn't behind cover. The missile can be dumbfired or steered like a Phoenix missile, however unlike the Phoenix it has an unlimited flight-time and much better steering allowing it to do a 360 or fly through buildings with ease. It can also be manually detonated by the player to increase the chances of kills
The only drawbacks are its relatively slow muzzle velocity, which also helps it fly through buildings, and the fact that it can be shot down causing it to explode in a small AOE blast. And we make it cost 750 nanites.

Is this weapon OP? Hell yes! But with 15 minute cooldowns, the fact that you can't fire it randomly through a chokepoint since its likely to be shot down then and swallowing all your resources in one go its usage isn't going to be too big.
A few quick calculations with somewhat guesstimated numbers using Voidwells KPU, uniques and KPH I came to about 15 kills per minute for 62 Gauss SAW players. Thats 225 kills per 15 minutes. However a single good hit at for example a Biolab airpad can net you 10+ kills in one go, which means that it can surpass in one shot what the average Gauss SAW player manages in an entire playsession based on the KPU stats.


This is the state we find vehicles for example in. Only vehicles are less risky to use compared to the Redeemer. Infantry is your standard unit, you almost cannot help to start as one and if you run out of nanites you can always use infantry. Then there is base design, which is so heavily designed to protect infantry for a very good reason, guess which one?
When you are infantry and have a choice between fighting in a lane where vehicles might kill you or a lane where you can fight infantry, you pick infantry since you have a higher chance of making progress. This also cuts into the amount of kills vehicles can make. The success of vehicles is what has cut into their total kill ratios. Imagine if we removed walls on bases and let vehicles in, their kill ratio would go through the roof!

Just to clarify:
Banshees get about 270 kills per 16 players per hour. Or 17 kills per player per hour of playtime, which means that the average user would use about 37 minutes of Banshee playtime.
Gauss SAW's get about 900 kills per 62 players per hour. Or 14 kills per player per hour playtime. With 14 kills per hour and a 12 KPU you have 51 minutes of playtime per player.

14 kills per player is less than 16 kills last time I checked. On top of that: you have less protection methods against a Banshee which is an additional problem. You can shoot and kill a SAW user before he shoots you, you cannot reliably kill a Banshee user.

So using the numbers you thought favored you, Banshees do better than Gauss SAW's.
I dont expect this to convince you since this was obtained through the magic of mathematics so you'll likely go "but its not that much higher" or something like that, ignoring all the context of where, when and why such things are used. But hey I did tell you.

The alert I literaly linked to has 37 banshee kills, where are you getting 270 from lmao. Just making **** up as usual.

From the non-alert stats on Voidwell. You know, the ones that include all servers rather than the numbers of a single server at 10 on a thursday morning? Is that really that surprising?
I can't find which server though, the one linked does not show up in the list of "past alerts".

Juli the 15th, the day of the alert:
20.558 kills total for Gauss SAW.
1540 uniques across the day.
856 kills per hour.

On the alert alone the Gauss SAW got an average of 344 kills per hour (kills divided by 1.5 hours of playtime).

So I am not making stuff up, I am just using the complete data rather than a single alert.

This is blatant cherrypicking. You're using a singular alert, 90 minutes out of over 9 years of playtime, as the be-all end-all truth about whether ESF AI Noseguns are broken or not. A single alert is not nearly enough data to make an accurate declaration regarding both vehicle weapons OR AI Noseguns. Or anything, really.

Based on that alert data (or the parts that don't have blanked out names, idk what thats about, maybe the new NSO stuff?) we should be nerfing the Gauss SAW, the Mercenary, the Punisher, C-4.... the NSX-P Naginata? Is anyone gonna claim the freaking Naginata Platinum Edition TM is broken, despite being ranked 7th on that alerts kill board with 320 kills? I should hope not, given how general public opinion is that it's not that great.

Like Demigan shows, using the full statistics, or at least a much larger spread, is necessarily along with some sound judgement to make a call on these guns. That and people's experiences. If the AI Noseguns have a reputation for being despised... maybe that isn't without good reason? Especially since the Dervish wasn't given an AI nosegun, and the Chimera doesn't have a HESH cannon. That seems deliberate IMO.

But back to the point of OP - "settling with stats" is a tricky thing, as it requires a lot of analysis and thought. Frankly, we don't have the available stats tracked to pass judgement on this beyond straight kills.

I would also like to point out that its not even that rare to see Harassers driving around without a gunner, I see quite a few every time I play at least, which would also affect the weapon stats since they are not nearly as effective as a crewed Harasser since they like to just park on a hill or something and spam into bases or really long range shots against vehicles.

Harasser (ab)users just need to be a bit more creative with their rumble repair, nothing stopping you from using the Punishers repair grenades or even Electrotech implant and hope to take a hit on the rumble seat... or a quick stop to quick knife to trigger it yourself on your teammate. If Electrotech is too innovative, perhaps you go full on attack, bet everything on getting the kill and use Ransack?

Why not all of the above?
Because it takes effort.

that's something you could say about your postings.