Re-balance Phoenix Rockets or Forbit them at spawn

LOL - yeh, and where do they almost always teleport you to - a building 3ft away from where you were

I see you completely dodge the question of bases that are way too easy defend. Go on, answer the ******* question of how making bases too defensible is good for the game. Explain how it would be good if every base was The Bastion. You can't cus you're a zergling ****ter and your opinions are worth as much.

Also, capture points exist to drive conflict in this PVP game, since you're too stupid to figure that out.

There's some rare bases that can be defended brutally.
The majority however can't be defended at all.

Just like too easily attacked, is a problem, too easily defended is a problem.
Nor have I ever said every base has to be the bastion.
Given that 'Zerger ****ters' tend to be the ones overpopping bases, and then spawn-camping them, I find that ironic as hell.

In fact, I talk about how the Spawn Room shouldn't be the easiest place to hold; That's what the capture points are for.
Which is why, they should be the best & easiest place to defend; Not the spawn-room of the Defenders.
Not once have I said, bases themselves must be hard to capture; I state the spawn-room shouldn't be the easiest choke-point.

yeah, I'm so stupid, that Attackers having nothing but spawn-camps the moment they reach a base, enables conflict.
You do realize, that if the Defenders can't actually use their spawn rooms, the base tends to be a spawn-camp only;
Which isn't a conflict, as it's one-sided farm - incredibly boring.

If you want 'conflict', you actually make it so the Attacker's best option of capturing a base, isn't by spawn-camping the spawn over actually holding the points.
That is why, the bases have Capture Points & Spawn-Rooms in different area's.

Still dodging. Answer.

Except it's not. Defenders have to come to terms with that they shouldn't be able to just press U to get to even pops, then use their invulnerable spawn cube to never ever have any risk of losing it unlike attackers who can loose a fight simply because one person tank-mined the sunderer.

The defenders have such a massive advantage in that, even 10 seconds before a base changes hands, their spawn option can never be destroyed. An attacker's can however, be it from EMPs, tank mines, other vehicles. These can all happen before the attackers even get to the point. Defenders don't suffer that enormous dis-advantage at all.

Easily attacked bases makes the map move, defensible ones don't.

No, but you conveniently ignore the results of bases that far to easy to defend, like SNA (which was deleted cus it was ****), Biolabs, The bastion, Howling Pass, triple pointers & so on.

This only happens because defenders are far too stubborn to counter-attack. People think that the base should be able to defend itself, with no help from adjoining bases. They think they must be able to push out from their cube into the base, even though the attackers have to get there from their bases anyways.

The result of that is bases like The bastion, a base that doesn't need any help from other territory and can be secured from the spawn cube with fewer numbers than the attackers.

I used to think this way too, but consider these two things.

1. How easy and mindless it is, with almost zero coordination, for attacking zergs to get to the next base.
2. How a coordinated and massive drop can just about appear out of nowhere with gals, with enough easy spawn options to hit the single friendly spawn area from all angles.

There needs to be an easy option for defenders to fight back against those advantages.
I haven't played in a couple months, but the new spawn system sounded like it should help balance fights. Did that go live? How did it turn out? Did the sky fall? I'm honestly curious.

If it's so easy to "get to the next base" why is so difficult for defenders who are being spawn camped to pull back 1 base, get some armour and push out the attackers spawns? I guess the attackers must be smarter and better somehow. We both know this isn't true and it's just lazy defenders who want to sit in their comfy base with their indestructible spawns and play infantry-side all day.

The 2nd one one can be done by defenders and attackers. It is also coordinated, as you said yourself, whilst pressing U to even pops isn't. It's far easier to sundie-bust like that than it is the capture a base like that, so it's even more effective on the defender side.

The Pop thing didn't change anything, it's still piss-easy to redeploy and stomp out any attackers, and it's effectiveness increases the easier a base is to defend.

I agree that most players are lazy and want easy fights, but if defending was so much easier than capping, really consider why we always have 3 zergs doing nothing but capping, and rarely defending. And I do disagree, most players aren't camping in a spawn room, the vast majority are part of a mindless zerg.

Pressing U and getting to the same base takes infinitely more coordination than simply following the herd. And how long does it take to get the average platoon to the warpgate, pull gals, travel to the destination, then successfully drop it? By the time defenders even notice the cap and jump through the same hoops, the base would most often be a lost cause.

I do agree with you that bases should be easier to take than hold, but I also think we need easy ways to get balanced fights, and dialing in the new spawn system is the best way to get those more-competitive fights.

How many bases in the ENTIRE history of the game have been taken back by spawn room warriors? Oh yeah that would be ZERO. All being able to fire from the spawn room does is enable stat padding.

If you are confined to the spawn room it is because you already lost the base.

How many bases in the entire history of the game required you to have LOS to the spawn-room, to cap it?
Unless you're spawn-camping, you aren't threatened by a spawn-room; Spawn-Warriors are in the least effective position to farm.
Spawn-Camping however, is where the more effective farm is.

If you remove the ability to defend the room, the moment a vehicle drives up, that spawn-room, even if the base hasn't been breached, is basically dead.
On Tech plants, you also literally drive your tank, and spam HEAT & HESH at the door, before anyone even tries to get near the point ;
It's not as if, the spawn-room isn't easy to literally camp.
What is hard: Capping the base, in a spot where Spawn can even shoot you.

If you are under attack from the spawn; You are not where you are meant to be.

Spamming the spawn room doors with fire (especially HESH from max distance) is the epitome of stat padding.

It attackers wanted a real fight - they would allow the defenders out.

One of the most fun & unique tactics that I've seen with the Phoenix was with a organized squad of HAs with a Infil spotter. The Infil would crest the and designate a target on the map and order the Phoenix strike. No spawn room antics, Just find a hill that out of LoS and start killing tanks one at a time. It's really impressive seeing that many rockets all launching together and covering onto a single hapless tank. Now a days you can replace the HAs with a Construction artillery.

Make people unable to fire from inside the spawn room, this will encourage the defenders to get a convoy with a sundy from another base to get another attack point or use different tactics to get out of the spawns. The Phoenix does not have enough DPS to use it though but as others say, it is highly effective with a group where you can totally destroy a target from far away behind cover but, this is the same as the VS Lancer, just go miles far away and begin your destroy process, or the Striker or guess what, any weapon with a team. I used a squad with LA of 6 people in a Valkyirie and began searching for Sundies or targets that were dangerous, when we found one, we did a drop and totally destroyed the sundy in a matter of seconds, it was highly effective. The same could happen with almost any other av weapon so... yes, I am with you at least in not making people able to shoot from inside a spawn room but not re-balancing phoenix because it already trades off damage for that feature.

As bizarre as it seems, some people seem to do nothing but this - ahem - https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428183826217988305/killboard

..It'll encourage the defenders to convoy with an entire sunderer?
How exactly did the enemy get to the base to begin with? Likely with Armor.
Unless you pull it from an increasing farther distance, the enemy Armor can take it out before it gathers -- and if too far away, you've lost the base, and will likely have the same cycle that lost the first base.

As well, you can aim at the spawn-room doors, with a Tank usually, from outside on a Hill at quite a few bases.
If this can force the defense to lose every single possible point in owning the base; (Defensive advantage), to having to be quite literally outside their own base, fighting inside & out, from an exterior exposed position, easily nailed down by the enemy's armor..
The moment the Offense wins the vehicle battle, which is typically required in order to park their sunderers, the defense can not drive a sunderer to their own base.

Like do you know the angles of spawn? The only reason, the phoenix is noted, as a 'danger' from the room, is that it can go around the massive LOS barriers for the defenders, towards their Spawn-camping enemies.
Like look at this thread's pictures.
A single tank, can suppress spawn within seconds of seeing the base.
Recall how many bases have Hills outside, angled at spawn..

Tech-Plants are a great example; Try exiting one of those.
If the enemy is in the base, they already won the vehicle battle; This means the defense can not rally enough vehicles to win.
As they lost once already.

Not to mention, the distance needed to pull without being wiped out before the full count can even be rallied, is far enough that the base is lost, and the Enemy armor & infantry has always begun attacking the next closest base.
Which if they lost the first vehicle battle, unless the Defense has gained a lot more vehicles, those Attackers will win again.
And again.
And again, unless something changes --- Insanity is expecting different results from identical action in an identical situation.

The moment, a Tank gets LOS on spawn, and it can't fire back; That Spawn is dead.
And that means, the base's entire ability to defend itself or hold points is dead.
And if the attackers got Sunderers to that base; They won against any defending vehicles already.
This means, the first tank that arrives snowballs the entire base's ability to be used
- as it had to first get around the defense's vehicles.
- Which means, the Defense, in this situation, using Sunderers, is akin to sending suicidal sunderers into a secured enemy base.
- This means, the first 2 bases in the lattice are dead for the defense, unless the enemy is brain-dead.

As in no damn way, is the Offense forces hindered by any Spawn-room;
The Phoenix, is a barely noticeable exception; And that's since they're parking so damn close to spawn.
Outside that, every spawn right now, barely can hold off even half their occupants number or a tank, from shelling their position, which would endless farm & kill anyone who left that spawn;
A sunderer outside, is useless to the defense; As for that to happen, the Attacking force has to have no ability to park their own.
As it's the same exposed distance, as their Sunderers, and they had to reach & suppress the allied vehicle power, to get there.

Long story short;
If you can force the enemy, with a single tank, to pull vehicles 2 hexes away, defense is absent, and only Offense works.
As that means, only by attacking your own base from outside, can an exterior force be removed; As all interior defense is dead.

This is not true in select bases, where fortifications work, turning every attack from a farm-of-the-defense without any actual fighting.
To a stalemate fight.
IE, extreme ends of the spectrum with no middle ground; Removing spawn-defender capabilities just ensures the farm.

@developers : Nerf Phoenix !!
https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/8269444733672734529/stats
Look first weapon.

So you want to nerf a weapon and change the entire game because??? what exactly? What is that link supposed to show us?

You are !#$ tiresome.

Just quit man. Knock it off. This is an outright nerf thread. It's against forum rules because it just breeds discontent among players.

Oh brother.

The character in question has fired an astounding 142.7 thousand rockets with the Phoenix, yet has hit with less than half of them at just over 68K hits and has only managed to kill just under 7200 players.

If anything this just shows how weak the Phoenix actually is, that someone could fire so many shots and kill so few players. Even if we only looked at the actual shots landed!

It's an exemple.
This guy killed my HA 2 times at Ti Alloys.
So I took my Stalker for kill him.
I spotted him at the spawn of Crown, so he is invincible.

In general, when a character can't be killed for a long time, it's a cheat.

THIS ONLY GUY has 7186 kills with the Phoenix, it's not count the damages and assists did.

Change the mecanic of Phoenix or nerf this weapon.

It took him over 19 rockets for every kill!!!

BUFF THE PHOENIX!!!!!!1111ONE!!!

An example which does truly nothing to demonstrate the weapon is in any way too powerful or over-performing in any metric. Again, if anything the example makes it seems like it's underpowered.

This is just faulty logic. What bout snipers and stalkers? Or even infiltrators in general? What about HE tanks? ESFs and liberators? Just because someone can't be killed for a long period of time doesn't make them cheaters.

And? I've got 5741 kills with a Longshot bolt-action and I've fired about an eighth as many times as him. (17,790 shots). He's just not killing with it. 7.2K kills is next to nothing after being fired so many times. To put things into perspective, about 5% of his rockets actually kill. Comparatively, about 32% of my shots with a Longshot end with a kill. The numbers here really aren't very impressive for the Phoenix, at all.

The Phoenix is a truly pathetic and often entirely useless and suicidal weapon. If anything it should be buffed.