[Vehicle] Rework Vanguard? (tanks)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. karlooo

    I was looking into the game model files for fun and I noticed something interesting on a Vanguard model (turret). It was rendered in some different program btw.
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    This looks so cool. The gunner that's controlling the turret and main cannon can also fire it's small caliber cannons....But why don't the devs add something like this? Why does each update always have to be stuck to the same game play.
    Why not change the purpose of tanks, make vanguard a 2 person vehicle (lighting one person tank) that requires a driver and gunner. Make it only viewed from first person and buff the hell out of the tank to make it useful...than compared to what mess it's now.
  2. Demigan

    They had the idea for co-axial Guns early, it would have allowed the driver to fire the main gun, the coaxial and the gunner would have had the topgun. (at least I thought it would have a topgun aswell). They didnt do it in the end.

    Coaxials could have a great effect on the game. For example we could move away from the current mantra of "an AI weapon requires low-skill AOE to kill" and move to a variety of weapons. Imagine having a Viper-style AI autocannon with little AOE and the option to switch to a Kobalt or Renegade. Or when necessary the player could have access to side-mounted weapons like a small ATGM launcher.

    Current weapons could also be enhanced. For example a co-ax could have a higher elevation and function as a light G2A weapon so vehicles arent sitting ducks anymore to a CAS Valkyrie or other aircraft. Or they could be equipped with abweapon that enhances their role, such as an AI co-ax for the HESH and AP co-ax for the AP variants etc. Or they could balance out a flaw, so a HESH (assuming it becomes worse at AV again) could be supported by a Fury for AV damage for example.
  3. TR5L4Y3R


    MBT´s already have topguns to compansate their weakness with a gunner ..
    add coaxial weapons to either MBT or lightning and you turn the thing into a armored ground esf and infantry would have even more problems defending against it ..
  4. asmodraxus

    They could add coaxial weapons at the cost of switching the driver and gunner weapons around. Ok so the Magrider would need a graphical reworking of the front gun / top gun so the chance of it happening is slim to none.
  5. Demigan

    Yes! Which gives us a perfect time to start upgrading infantry!

    One of the biggest problems as I see it with tanks is that people don't feel they are powerful, despite how powerful they actually are (infantry needing segregation just to have a semblance of good gameplay). If you give vehicles that feeling, but also give infantry ways to actually combat those tanks effectively... It would become a much better game.

    From non-lethal tools that make it harder for tanks to hit the player to a variety of lethal ATGM's and such, preferably all bought with nanites, infantry could have a very good situation against tanks with co-ax guns. So good in fact that infantry migth not need to be segregated anymore. The best of the best situation that could happen to PS2 is when vehicles are allowed to duke it out with infantry anywhere, even in (most) bases. Vice-versa some bases designed in favor of vehicles could suddenly also exist.
  6. Diilicious

    they should give Coaxials to lightnings, not to MBT's imo
    • Up x 1
  7. TR5L4Y3R


    first infantry need to be able to duke it out with tanks rather .. because that´s not happening ..
    engineers can´t give propper support with being stationary and easily oneshotted, medics can´t give any .. and infils are not even allowed to hunt down a single vehicle, not even as a group .. it´s all heavies or LA´s that attack vehicles ..
    secondary lightning needs a high rate of fire weapon against infantry, the skyguard is unreliable for that .. so add a walker and/basilisktype for that ...

    i still don´t see the need for coaxial weapons .. give options to the lightning or tweak existing topguns that are meant to fight/defend against infantry ..
    the other problem is a drivers awareness .. if he is a anti tankdriver and choses stealth over recon then that´s on him
    a lightning is more limited even so if you want to fight infantry then you should be able to have the apropriate option but all infantry should also have a option to defend itself at the very least to a degree ..

    further nanitebased ammo would be just giving AV grenades too all classes but LA´s in that case c4 could be considered to be removed even .. while i wouldn´t be against nanitebased rocketlaunchers or heavy weapons we don´t neccesarily need them
    we also need to be carefull to not decrease the TTK of ranged weapons vs vehicles too much ..
  8. TR5L4Y3R


    if at all then as a slotoption imo
  9. Demigan

    Infantry can't really duke it out with vehicles right now. Ofcourse it would be preferred to upgrade infantry alongside vehicles, but if necessary I'll take a few months of infantry getting hammered left and right by vehicles (even more) just to get infantry the boost they need. That's better than letting the current balance limp along.


    So give them tools that don't require them to be stationary!

    Give them some! Medics are the perfect class to enhance with powerful deployable shields, especially if placed in the utility slot.

    Again, give them something! For example give them a throwable sticky-tool that when placed on a vehicle nerfs it's speed and perhaps locks up it's ability slot. It can be removed by shooting it directly or repairing the vehicle for X seconds. Now the inhabitants need to get out. Give the Infil also a tool that allows it to steal empty vehicles (not possible with deployed Sunderers). Now the Infil can first nerf the vehicle, then attempt to steal it after killing the crew (who's going to be ready for this). To prevent accidental teamkilling or rather unfair scenario's where people don't know who's shooting, all stolen vehicles get a very clear paintjob to show their change in allegiance.

    If we are talking about adding new weapons and tools against vehicles for infantry, why does it matter how the status-quo is?

    All vehicles need something like that.

    A better feeling for tank players so their incessant whining stops?
    I would also love to give topguns more oomph. For example by giving each an ability it can use. Imagine a Kobalt that has access to an EMP launcher which can also reduce enemy tank effectiveness. Suddenly it's a far better choice to bring with you even in a tank battle. Each topgun could get a few options to pick from for variety and balance.

    Yes.

    I think we need nanite based rocketlaunchers baaadly. We need to decrease the TTK of ranged weapons enough that they have a chance to kill a vehicle. You could do this in various ways, for example instead of more damage an infantry-based weapon could nerf parts of a tank so that it has more trouble fleeing. Or infantry could get some tools so they have the ability to better keep up with vehicles when they try to stay out of effective range or duck behind cover to negate all damage dealt.
  10. TR5L4Y3R

    they get hammered by vehicles ALREADY ...


    wrong, buff them so they can survive long enough to give of shots while being stationary..
    also with the archer while being rather a antimaxweapon they do have mobil antiarmorweapon


    shield´s would be another option yes, i am hower speaking bout AVgrenades, a AV grenadelauncherprimary or giving them the rockletrifle as a primary ..


    well vehiclehacking has been asked for a while now and long ago i suggested what was basically AV-emp




    because you asked for coaxial tankweapons when the actual origin of threat is limited to these 2 classes



    all vehicles BUT the lightnig HAVE .. even the flash has a basilisk and a kobalt
    every other vehicle has access to basilisk, walker, ranger and kobalt ..
    the lightning is the only vehicle that does not have acces to a basilisk, walker or cobalt .. it only has a rangerequivalent ..




    some people won´t ever be satisfied and you know that ..
    weaponabilities is tricky to implement if you have already vehicular abilities ... even if it´s just to change firemode
    i´m not against that though


    vehicle crippeling mechanics are imo not a good idea with novices driving around so those should be limited to infil emp, which imo would make it a reasonable part of a antiAV composition ..
    as for tools/ways for infantry to keep up with vehicles i just mentioned a couple ..
  11. Pikachu

  12. TR5L4Y3R


    so was it actualy useable in beta?
  13. Pikachu

    I don't know I didn't play. Just found some old pictures.
  14. LaughingDead

    I really wish the developers went with the more intigrated style of guns over the sort of "beanie" hat look of turrets we have now. Basalisk on the vanguards top doesn't look bad, prowler, looks eh and the VS looks completely out of place, then saron looks like it was made for the magriders look, but vulcan just looks weird and then mjolner looks like strapped a hammer to the top of a tank which looks all sorts of wrong.

    Looks aside, I do think something does need to be done about the topguns/main turret issue, in which everything is about the combined DPS or nothing at all, leading to a 2 man does all or does nothing scenario, basically you either both do armor damage or neither of you do.

    It leads to a false sense of diversity among the loadouts you make. If you put a ranger on top, you are a fat lesser skyguard with some armor damage, if you put a kobalt on top then you don't deal as much as an AP setup, if you only do an AP setup you will only do AV.

    I guess this is what they were trying to solve with some of the option openers with CAI, the problem is that they didn't open diversity, they simply made weapons perform outside of their intended role more which just leaves a massive grey area over the entire tank part of the game.

    The liberator is an ideal vehicle platform for this reason. The gunner and pilot can do vastly different things without hindering the overall course of the vehicle. If you want tankbuster duster, you can do that, bulldog and shredder with vector works, all 3 going for AA also can work. Tanks on the other hand must concentrate gunfire in order to perform their intended purpose. You don't have the diversity of the liberator to tank on infantry air and armor all at once. Some people will say "Oh hoh ho, they are two different vehicles, one has more armor than the other" well that's the thing, armor in the long run does nothing. 3 striker heavies can deter a lib far away enough to repair, 3 heavies on top of an AP MBT can actually kill it rather quickly because it can't get away easily. Sure maybe it will kill one or even two of the heavies in the process but even after it does it's received enough damage to be plinked down by anyone else or be forced to repair right then and there and be plinked down while you can't move, where as the libs only real enemies are ESFs in which most of the time you can out rep everything they throw at you.

    I find that this CAI grey splatter more or less lead to tanks just feeling bad at general gameplay instead of approaching the problem of poor tank diversity. People complain about hesh more because there is less reason to not run it over AP because your topgun compensates a large portion of the damage lost. Less reason to run AP at the same time because the topgun ran most of the show.

    I do not think that they should remove guns in order to bring tanks in line but change function, but that in turn would piss off players. It's a real mess right now.
  15. karlooo

    Can someone tell me why the Planetside 2 Vangaurd turret is moved to the right? The older models turret is centered and the new one is moved to the side...why lol? The centered turret looks better.
    And compare the new Vangaurd head lights to the old one lol.
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