What's a weapon you'd like to see added in PS2?

Flamethrowers were a thing in alpha
a thing that broke performance, had desync issues, hitbox issues and all those other fun stuffs, but they were a "thing"

Yeah I can see why they were removed. However, I'm confident that most people have more sophisticated computers these days around 4 times as powerful on average as when Alpha was around (based on Moore's Law).

I think that it could probably be handled now, but probably won't. It might be a good idea for a hypothetical PS3 a decade or more down the line.

Battle rifles.
Speaking for TR, the AMR-66 is a terrible weapon that doesn't really fill any role

The AMR is an okay weapon but it places a premium on hitting headshots to be competitive if you're getting close. It's really meant to be used in the second line of combat by medics and engineers who aren't necessarily going to be pushing a point but following the heavy and light assaults in and reviving/healing/dropping ammo while taking shots at targets being engaged by the front. Against stationary or damaged targets the BRs tend to do just fine.

That being said I would love to have a Battlefield Hardline-esque battle rifle like the SCAR or EBR that is full auto, has a low rate of fire, high damage, and high recoil. Maybe a HA alternative to the LMG which is closer to the DMR but more viable in close range.

Also a tool for the infil to allow targets to be spotted (maybe "painted" if a mechanic like that could be added) without an audio cue would be lovely.

I also second whoever said there should be faction specific skins for the NS and NSX weapons, if for no other reason than to add a little bit of visual diversity. Heck it would be cool if there was the ability to skin weapons in general the way you can skin your players armor. I'd love to turn my RAMs into a 98 Bravo or my Torque into an AEK.
(Obviously not as they would need new animations but you get the general idea)

I would love to see the return of the Radiator from PS1. We don't have a whole lot of Area Denial weapons that also don't instantly kill you.

For those who don't know, the Radiator was an Ancient Tech grenade launcher that lobbed a grenade that generated a bubble of damaging radiation. This radiation pierced through walls, doors, floors, ect and would rapidly harm anyone standing in the field. If you were quick you could run through them but get pretty damaged in the process, but you couldn't linger inside the field or you would certainly die. It was super useful for holding choke points like the Back Door of bases, or flushing players out of cramped but important spaces, like the Generator Room or the Control Console area.

The Radiator grenades also damaged player health THROUGH armor and MAX suits. But at 50% of the damage rate. Making it possible to kill the pilot of a vehicle or a MAX without damaging its armor but it took quite a bit longer.

That being said, MAX units were typically the counter to a Radiator due to the reduced damage they take and lack of direct explosion damage from the radiator grenades itself. So a Solo radiator spammer could hold back an impressive amount of soft infantry, but a single MAX could push/kill the spammer without much difficulty.

I think it would be a neat weapon in PS2 since it could actually force a retreat from an area without an immediate death like HE spam or standard grenades.

So you fire these grenades into a cap, and the defenders basically die unless they are maxes.
And a single person is worth an army without Maxes.

This wouldn't be so bad, if there was more practical choke-points that weren't on a defender spawn, where this would exterminate any use the room.
And exterminate any cap within grenade-lobbing distance -- which would be horrific in bio Labs, or any smaller cap rooms.

Not to mention, I doubt vehicles would like getting killed by Grenade spam - not to mention, making it impossible to defend a Sundy, since one of these grenades would be fired, farming the hell out of it & the gunners.

Well the radius in PS1 was decently large, but not inescapable. If you got hit by one, you had enough time to get out of its radius, and the damage of multiple radiator fields didn't stack. A player in a vehicle also had plenty of time to drive away, since it only dealt 50% of the standard damage to Armored targets. It was more effective against people sitting in turrets or manning the gun, since you couldn't seat hop in PS1.

It was also pretty decent against BFRs since they could disable their movement servos for stronger shield recharge, leaving them pretty screwed if they got Radiatored.


If used in a cap room, it would just clear out a space, as I'm sure most players wont just sit in the field to die. The field is just as dangerous to allies, so you cant just radiate the room, and occupy it. But it could do things like relieve pressure on choke points, clear out entrenched areas, ect.

If brought into PS2 I don't think I would mind it being altered somewhat, such as limiting the bleedthrough through walls or making vehicle occupants safe from its effects.

Well, that's not exactly the problem. (the radius)
The size of rooms, and the massive number of choke-points, these things would literally deny any attempt to exit the chokes since they'd be either half dead, or already damaged near constantly -- and through walls.
So the choke-points of either side, gets flooded by grenades that ignore cover entirely.

Point-Rooms, the small ones, are completely screwed, given the defenders \ attackers IE whomever is there, can't afford to leave every possible defensive position to evade the grenade spam that ignores all manner of cover.
Which given it could be launched onto a roof, or against the wall, and still hit... is brutal.
So, the rooms that have to be defended, are unable to be occupied, due to grenades piercing walls & killing them, the fact it just "clears it out", means you have the ultimate breaching tool, all defensive positions either weakened or left, ensuring any push wins.
EMPs get a lot of flak for shutting down regenerative shields through walls: And you want one that does this to health.



And from the other side, the ability to kill anyone inside a vehicle, regardless of how slow..
Means the vehicle has to leave, or die inside, regardless of situation.
And for the situation I mentioned, that means unpacking the Sunderer entirely -- to be finished off by the grenade.
Not to mention, grenade spam, killing drivers rather than AV weapons would get a lot of flak.


IE, you want a grenade that invalidates the ability to hold a position, when the Game already has the crappiest defensive positions.
With a weapon that inflicts damage through walls.

Mostly niche weapons on my side. All of them NS.

Melee:
Impact Hammer
like in UT1.
First fire mode: performs quick strikes with knife-like dmg and pushing enemy back for short distance.
Second fire mode: hold to charge up and automaticaly releases if enemy is in melee range dealing major DMG and pushing him away for larger distance or killing him on HS... slow recharge.

Shotgun:
Semi-automatic EMP-Frag Shotgun:
Imprecise, slow firing Shotgun with EMP Frags, exploding on impact. Higher effective range than usual. Low blast radius with EMP DMG. Med to low Slug DMG.

Rocketlauncher:
Semi-automatic tag guided AP Launcher
No dumbfire mode. Second fire mode shoots a sticking tracer dart. The rockets will now home at that position for next X-seconds. No Splash DMG.

Battle Rifle:
Explosive Dart Rifle

Fast shooting semi-automatic Rifle with low DMG on hit, but it sticks a dart on target that explodes after 2 secounds or if target dies for low splash DMG resulting in avg BR DPS.

Nades/Tools/Others:
Engineer:
EMP Drone:
Fast moving, low HP Drone, that explodes on impact, releasing EMP wave and disabling the vehicle/turrets/weapons for 3 seconds on hit. Costs nanites, Ability Slot.

Infiltrator:
Nanite virus:
Shoots a Dart at Infantry, automaticaly hacking their gear for X seconds. Tool slot.
Medics who try to heal or revive with their tool take DMG that equals the half of Maximum-HP in heal/revive process. Gives assist/kill credit to Inf if medic dies. (visual effect on medictool as "warning beeing hacked").
Engineers deal DMG to vehicles instead of repair. Gives credit to Inf if Engie destroys vehicle this way (visual effect on repairtool as "warning beeing hacked")
LAs start to burn if using Jump Jets proportional to their used fuel. (visual effect like soften up EMP hud, while hacked)
HAs Overshield drains all its energy on use, dealing half of energy drained as DMG to HA. (visual effect like soften up EMP hud, while hacked)
Inf is unable to stealth. Complete energy AND sheld drain on try. (visual effect like soften up EMP hud, while hacked)
Vehicle: Hacks loaded ammo/mag. On shot deals half of magazines/Shots DMG to vehicle. Reloading consumes the hacked ammo/magazine without no DMG. (visual effect like soften up EMP hud, while hacked)

Medic:
Agressive Support: Replaces Triage. Medic stores 10% of DMG he deals and releases all stored DMG as heal every 5 seconds in small radius. The medic him self is not affected.

LA:
Sprays his fuel around him, setting it on fire. Deals continous DMG around him instead of jumping while enabled. JumpJets are disabled for a second after use of this ability. Ambusher Jets make less DMG but in one burst.

HA:
Replaces Sidearm and Rocketlauncher with ES Heavy Weapon or an second LMG... No. Realy. No Idea

An automatic-Melee strike that can kill... You want to give people, to ability to charge a hammer, that will automatically swing.
That will also instantly kill if a head-shot, or simply nearly kill them.

An imprecise "longer range" shotgun.
With Low to medium damage... if it hits, joy, but what are the odds of that as you try to use it to the further ranges?

An Anti-personal rocket-launcher that uses a tracking dart? So you fire the dart as you peek, and the rocket homes in on it?
Great no splash, how's the damage on this thing?

A Battle-rifle, that has a timed explosion?
With rapid-fire, wouldn't that mean whomever you shot is basically screwed or their allies are, since it's after?
Or it's more impractical, given you'd die before it detonates? Or is this tied onto normal weapon damage?

An fast moving drone that disables weaponry longer than most TTK, and EMP's their shields down.
That's screwing them completely.


Nanite Virus; Stalker infil, just forced the medic to be useless \ kill allies.
Screwed a Engineer over completely - with a single shot, not even a head-shot.
Killed a Light-Assault for attempting to be mobile.
And Killed a Heavy, for using their shield, likely to engage the Stalker whom shot the dart.

Vehicles? No you just gave stalkers or infils, the ability to stop a tank from firing or it slams itself.
Since you can't actually reload without firing a shot -- or you basically are in an endless reload loop from a cloaked infiltrator.

IE way too bloody potent, given it basically enables an Infil in one shot cause their opponent outside of an Infil to nearly suicide.
And all with 1 dart: That's sorta why Noot's been asking for that.
As then, the Stalker is the one-stop shopping.

---
The rest, I can't find an oblivious flaw with, besides allowing Heavies to wield Heavy weapons & LMGs Or two LMGs in their inventory.
I can imagine how badly that would go.

Thats why pushback. If you do not "headshot" you will not get any other chance. Like with power knive. The Chargetime needed would make it more situational.

Low to medium Slug DMG. The extended range would still make it possible to go for EMP Splash. As EMP is hard to shields it would be a bit overkill to give this shotgun precise slug in addition.

With bad precision you are not completely screwed with that shotgun but also not so useless as with a normal one as you can still destroy shields if you miss past point blanc.

AP = Armor Penetration.
You have to hit your target with the dart (let it be a Harasser). Then you only need to shoot in the direction of your target and your Rockets would home on it.
The DMG would be enough to push Harassers back but to low to become a danger for MBTs or Lightnings.

Well, without propper balancing of numbers: It would shoot at speed of a normal BR. Doing ~ half the DMG of a BR as direct DMG.
The Spash DMG would be delayed for 2 seconds, and explode for the same amount as the direct DMG done. So this Rifle would be inferior to any other BR in a simple 1o1, but ambushing someone could spread DMG on his mates making it supportive/suppresive BR.
Example (not balance): this Rifle deals 150 DMG a shot with delayed 100(simple splash, not modified by Leg/head hits) DMG expl. at rate of fire of 300. You hit a guy 4 times with it. He takes cover with 400 HP left. 2 Seconds after the explosions start and deal 400 DMG to him and everyone else in a small radius. The guy dies. Noone else dies but has to recharge the shields = forced to cover. Actualy the spash dmg could be even higher without killing a group by shooting only one guy.

Well, you are right. could be overkill... let it work with direct hits with vehicles only... without EMP or something like that...
I would still love to see a drone for the engineer, but you are right, hard to balance...

*
Have to disagree.
By beeing shot with the dart the target has to be close to infiltrator
beeing hit by this dart warns the target that a stalker is in range.
The Inf has to have his tool out to "hack his target" and switch to the weapon afterwards in order to kill.
So he loses his momentum completely if trying to do so.

If an inf would go for a kill, he would simply ambush his target because it would have little to no time to react.

Its not a combat tool. Its a tool to assist the main forces. "Hacking" the medic for lets say 3 seconds wouldn't automaticaly render him useless. With full HP he even has no need to cancel current reviving. But if shot befor organized Push the "hacking" Inf would give his team an advantage.

Same for engie. Stop repairing for 3 seconds would do nothing on its own, but if used on an semi afk sundy repairbot, it could give the attacking HAs the time to destroy the vehicle. "Hack" this engie without having support and he simply enter his vehicle for 3 seconds, drive away and repair it elsewere.
HA: see medic
LA: Just as test, play inf, take tracer dart, shoot an LA with it in CC and attack him then. Does it give you an advantage over simply ambush him? The point behind "fuel burn" is to predict his jump. Hack him just befor he jumps for your sunderer, or stop him from reach the rooftop while he is out of your Pistol/SMG Range.

See *

The only things you didn't mention are LA and Medic Abilities... not that much

Some last words:
1) Thanks for post. I'm happy about every constructive comments (I don't rate "That's sorta why Noot's been asking for that." as personal attack, further more I believe sometimes, Noot points with his own kind on flaws in game design ).
2) The balancing was not a part of my post. The thread is about weapons we would like to see ingame. Not how to integrate them in propper way. So IF a dev would read that AND would like an Idea AND would have a time to implemet it, it would be HIS Job to get the balance right not MINE...
YES I know in the last sentence are at least 3 suppositions that will never happen

assuming they revert their recent mistakes and make the game tolerable again (doubtful)
i'd like to see a REAL minigun for TR like from the early alpha days

i'd like for VS to have a true laser weapon, pretty much hitscan with 1000+ RPM but super weak damage,
so if you look at something it starts to slowly lose health.
maybe this could be an AV weapon of sorts.

for NC i'd like a two handed railgun for the max, a lengthy 2-3 second charge and them BOOM it fires and ultra fast bolt of death that deals a ton of damage.

The auto-hitting bit, was what I had an issue with.

You do know, Shotguns got hammered for a bit of range, and the RNG nature of pellets means range is not what one wants.
Unless the explosion doesn't require the pellet hits, which people would complain about to the end of times.
But if it works, sure.

Ah, so an anti-armor round in this case.
Hmm, interesting: Any possible counter-measure?


Always be careful with delayed-damage explosions, given latency.

The problem is, the infiltrator is able to cloak: And deny the abilities of those classes to the point those classes kill themselves in all but the Engineer's case, whom kills the allied max or vehicle instead, or dies to whatever caused the original damage.
So 'being warned' by the dart, is too late:As you already have the fatalistic effects applied.
As a heavy, you're dead.
Medic? You're screwed.
LA? if you even try to use the Jetpack, you off'ed yourself.
And pair it with a Knife, or hell, some terrain, or planning, and any class is entirely hard-counted by 1 infil.
Any teamwork, and you've denied an entire squad's medic, engineer, heavy shields, by 1 guy spamming darts.
We have knives, and pistols are quick: the enemy however has to find the stalker's direction, and is already crippled.

When I can cause a Heavy's shield to kill him, a Medic to off themselves, an LA to lose mobility, I'm more of a threat than any of those classes, let alone solo.
Since the Heavy lost their entire defense, and is now a suicide button, the medic can't heal, the LA can't use their pack:
All they have left is their primary weapon differences, and with their abilities being suicide.
I have a pistol, a Knife, and the first strike advantage.
heaven forbid on an normal infil: where I have an SMG.
From "easy kill" to "Free kill"

For a non-combat tool, it's the most offensive tool, given it is the only ranged debuff tool that causes the opponent's abilities to deal damage to themselves.
The closest debuffs to that is the concussion grenade, which isn't precise, nor causes damage on ability use.
Not to mention, punish any reactive action by the opponent to be fatal.

The stop repairing bit, is more of a "deal damage to allied vehicle" instead, and you'd be firing these onto engineers repairing the sundy, tanks, or maxes, which would easily have a chance to kill the subject -- let alone if they are busy in a fire-fight, and don't catch it in time, or it leads to their death since they needed that repair.
It entirely counters the ability of others to do their jobs, and makes it fatal.
From stealth.


Shoot LA with dart as opening shot, he jets, he suicides.
Flying LA: You dart, he dies to a fall, or dies mid-air.
Add in your own weapon, and he's dead whatever he does.
Makes the first strike advantage of the Infil, into a First-strike with Lethal-Debuff.

Yeah, as I saw nada.
So those are Interesting, and I like a bit.

No problem.
And yeah wasn't meant as an insult, just that Noot has been trying to make his stalker able to kill anyone who he sees with debuffs.
And he always thinks that if you attack someone, it's from the front... which is suicide.

Well, when weapon concepts are like that, it sorta means it's hard to balance without a change in the basis of the concept.
See Canis UA, being a brutal example of a concept being hard to balance.

That is a Cool holding method.


the problem with hitscan in that fashion, is that it either mean VS is useless up close, and head-shot without-trying, that scales up to "If it's visible, it dies" , which would make VS likely dead as could be, without numbers, up close, and instantly fatal in numbers.

I love any non-shotgun weapon for the NC max, let alone a railgun finally!

I think you're missing something. You're assuming the radius is like typical PS2 grenades and it wasn't. As a PS1 player who faced and use the Radiator I can say for a fact the spheres were just wider than 2 people standing side by side. Great in PS1 because the corridors between rooms in a base were the same width and generally quite long. Thus forcing people to stay in a chain of the fields for 10 seconds or more to clear the fields. PS2 bases are much more open even at choke points and tunnels, which would require an entire magazine to blanket leaving nothing left to replace those fields that expired.

Really. If you're going to keep saying "no no no!", at least get your facts straight instead of assuming that because that is how things work in this game they must have worked the exact same way in the original.
Nor did fields stack

No one has ever said the radius, nor given an indication: So no ****, I assume standard PS2 grenade radius.
As well, you're saying the blast radius isn't enough to use on the choke-points on spawn-room exits?
That would've been great to know: Now is the damage also not "And you're ******"?
Like give me damn details.

I have never said I've played PS1 -- nor would I think that's how it works there either, I care about how it works HERE.
No way in hell is it sane for me or anyone whom hasn't, nor anyone reading "Grenade" to think to a Ps1 grenade size for that weapon.
Jesus man.

As from a PS2 perspective, without knowing Ps1's weapons or details, a Grenade that ignores walls & armor with damage.. Sounds maddness.
So fill me in on the specifics first, ***** sake.

An underbarell attachment. Like a grenade launcher or shotgun attachment.

I still do not think it would cause any big balance issues. It is easier to use as power knife but is also less forgiving. Go-for-a-head-or-lose-the-engagement-melee-tool.

Yea, the explosion would not require the pallet to hit. I see your point.

Dodge the tracer. Bring some terrain between you and the attacker. Keep some range between you and the HA with that launcher. He has still to hit with his tracer (take the INF tracer Dart as ref for speed and drop). All Vaible. Have you played bad company 2? There was a mechanic like that.

Same as with all non hitscan weapons. Not?

Still, If you go for a kill as Inf, you do not need this dart. Quick Headshot->Knife, Xbow->Knife, even 2 Headshot is quicker and more reliable.
To hack someone, you have to decloack, shoot the dart, change the weapon, aim and shoot/strike then. Up to the last point you eather did no DMG or in best case removed some Shield from a medic or LA. You do not kill anyone instantly. But by doing so, your victim already knows, it is under attack and can react.

If you go for a kill right now, you land a headshot right in the moment you decloak, removing a huge part of targets HP. The DMG that your victim can not react to... the followup shot Strike is a kill. -> much more reliable as Decloack, hack, switch weapon, do DMG.

If you play Xbow, you can even go for bodyshots. With Knife combo the victim is dead at the moment your hacking dart would hit.

As allredy written: If you go for a kill, using your weapon is still way more effective. The place where this tool would shine is a battle with multiple enemies, where all the enemies are allready fiting, and the Inf has a position that would allow him to shoot ones and disappear and going for 2 shot kills or melee combo would be to dangerous. Hell, it would even require comparable level of aim as for CqC Bolter. With the difference, that the bolter kills in one HS. A hack, does not even DMG if the victim is not completely brain afk.

Every action removes stealth from you. What do you do now if you repair a sundy and your mate get HS killed by a stealther? The only advantage of the hacking dart over any other killing weapon would be the DMG to the sundy. If the engineer is darted and stops the repair, you prevent him from reparing for 3 seconds. If you kill him, you prevent him from repairing for the whole respawntime...

Thats why I do not see such a mechanic als overpowered. I even see infiltrators work more in team and not as lone wolfes sniping from hills or ambushing semi afk soldiers on the way to the frontline thanks to such tools that require a team to be most effective, and not offering any advantage on soloing. As said: Simple aim for head -> even 3 shot kill from stealth in enemies back is still more reliable and much faster than a destealth/hack -> weapon switch -> aim for head 2 shot kill.

But your critique shows, how it would be recepted by comm.

What would you think if the DMG component would be removed from the hacking and simply disable the ability for 2-3 seconds?

Nothing leathal was intended. The only one possible "fun" would be hitting a flying LA at huge hight. But even then, hit him first, with a tracer dart...

Sure. But without introducing new concepts, the game would become boring. Would new NC LMG with 143/750 DMG Model and SPA be new and exiting? Even if there is no NC LMG with that characteristics now it would be plain boring. Hell, even an LMG with Decreasing CoF and negative Recoil would be much more fun.

As to canis: Yea, was bad experiance. But hey DBG trys new things for this game. Even if they did it wrong, they will (hopefully) learn from this mistake and bring a new shiny mechanics one day, without causing imbalances like with canis.

This way would be much better in my eyes than more of the same.

But balancing and development of the game are not the topic here. There are other discussions about them.

Very RNGesus nearly then. (Hammer)

- Dodge the tracer?
I also assume smoke, and terrain helps with the actual missile itself.
I mainly worry about pegging a tank or sundy by popping up, and then firing the rocket into the air to home in from the sky.

- The issue is the damage.
So yes remove that bit, and its a bit more manageable.
Since, with the damage, any actively in-use ability is switched to suicide, any reactive or needed use of the ability is also switched to suicide: As it doesn't disable, it turns them into a weapon the opponent can't dodge, nor counter.
In a fire-fight, or otherwise engaged, the dart hits, and any ability is now fatal or close enough to it.
A single projectile fired from a cloak-able position, would cause anyone using, or about to use their ability, to be screwed.

It's more of an anti-teamwork, anti-ability with the damage aspect: Since, if they don't have time to register it, or are already about or, have, or mid-use they just killed themselves and \ or an ally.
I don't mind the ability shut-off on the infil, I mind the turning those abilities into suicide buttons.


So yes, without the damage it is more managable.
As with it, that LA example only possible conclusion unless the infil is so out-skilled it is sad, is LA Suicide.

We can hope - since I like new mechanics.
Just not when it's literally one-sided slaughter-level advantage let alone one-side only.
IE, they need to work on delivery, testing, and confirming the concept is sane in the presented form a lot.

5:00 to see it shielding an entranceway
at 12:20 you can see it in use on a stairwell, and see the effect it has on the recording player when his friend miss-fires it.

Its does about 10 damage per second, out of a 100 HP, you can run through it in about 2 seconds.

not sure if trolling or new but Underbarrel Grenade Launcher and Underbarrel Shotgun are already a thing XD
only available on a few weapons though