[Suggestion] Phoenix shield, a compromise

TLLDR: Let the launcher provide a free HA shield while the rocket is in flight, in exchange for spawn room shields blocking missiles.

Let this negate 2/3 bullet damage. This lets the shooter un-scope if he starts taking fire, and doesn't let him face tank vehicle aoe weapons as a further nerf to vehicles. This shield would also deactivate the standard HA shield, so they wouldn't stack.

You're a sitting duck using the launcher, which is why it's almost exclusively used in spawn rooms. And everyone knows how I despise spawn room fighting. Another option is to let the shooter continue to move, but I don't want a solution that promotes even more ADAD/crouch spam.

Not to say I don't want it.

But wouldn't that make the Phoenix user literally glow in the dark during the firing process while stationary for 2\3 bullet damage?

Shield visibility could be dialled in. It could be made nearly invisible.

But that gives me another idea, How about an infil cloak while the missile is in flight while scoped?

Hmm, there is that in theory.
Still, if' it's 2\3 bullets, the easy head-shots likely cancel it out.

Wouldn't that be brutally abuse-able? (Cloaking)
Given the user if being followed would be cloaked out, or the cloak would be more obvious -- Not to mention how it interacts with spots & thermal vision.
Or would it cause longer vulnerabilities due to de-cloak process.

I know this might seem presumptive but wouldn't it make sense to stand farther aback, where they are yet no enemies, and much reduced line of sight from expectant sniper positions (I assume that's always the complaint due to references to "headshots")? Even better to have one or two people posted on standard cloaker defense; in any case, you'll benefit from someone being without a Phoenix to drop ammo.

One option could be to have some kind of head protection(for example suffering no HS penalty), while snapping out of guiding upon taking any damage. This way you could also shoot your teammate to their toes when you see they're in danger. Do this without good reason and expect good old NC justice.

Anything that could 1shot you, you could try to catch with a scout radar of a flash, not that it protects from everything

There is no compromise necessary when fixing a broken scenario. There is currently no counter to eliminate the threat of HAs spamming Phoenixes from the spawnroom. Shooting down the rockets only delays the inevitable and makes for poor gameplay, on both sides.

I cannot think of any other scenario in PS2 where there is no counter to eliminate a threat that is so breaking as HAs spamming Phoenixes at spawn points.

With a stationary target, any enemy engaging or able to fire, would have the easiest time getting headshots due to lack of motion & reaction.
So it's more so the ease of being pegged in the head than sniper rifle, from my view.

As well, given the number needed to guard the user to fire, it becomes more of a multi-person weapon team that a support-weapon.
Since it's mostly the team supporting the weapon, to enable it to function rather than it helping the team & being guarded to keep the support.

In my opinion at least.

Compromise to not just leave the weapon unable to be used practically after the spawn-room is gone.

As literally, go play with the Phoenix without that room.
Watch how screwed you are.

If you take away ability to shoot from spawn, you'll need at least some re-adjustment. For example, damage interrupting guiding. This still leaves the problem of sniper omnipresence.

Simplest trick of all would be to remove the reload bug though, and think about what to do with Phoenix later. People only use it on the grace of a dps increasing bug anyway

The Phoenix shouldn't be treated special but just like any other weapon. I feel like redesigning implants the way they did was a mistake because they tend to over-specialize anything. When we'll be talking about balance it won't ever just be generic-A or generic-B anymore but overspecialized-A and overspecialized-B, which will end up hurting either the implants or the generic version of whatever the subject is. One can't design with balance along optional extremes.

Well, its an ES Launcher.
The Lancer, the Striker, and the Phoenix.

The ES Heavy weapons, follow a similar pattern.
Difference between them & regular weapons.

And if the phoenix was treated like every other launcher besides the Lancer & Striker, you'd have the built-in vulnerabilities of the platform, the lack-luster capability damage wise, the reload speed & flight time, and the inability to use it like any of the others regardless.

If A , B, C all fire differently
The generic rules will affect them differently.
The weapon most similar to the standard, will be the least affected, the one farthest will be hit the hardest.

Can you guess where that line of thought leads.

Yes but my exercise started with "stand farther aback, where they are yet no enemies" and then I went on to mention snipers too. I'd like that to at factor into the answer least somehow.

It was never really a one person weapon, unless you're aiming to those in flight from a bad but barely survived situation. You'd wouldn't need any more than one or two Engineers and their beepy machines and Medic to watch over the row. An MAX AA nest has those same sorts of requirements. It wouldn't even necessarily matter that the MAX is less squishy than the Heavy Assault because they be engaging targets from a superior position.

Can only stand so far back, it has a range limit, and the further the distance the more time to disrupt the attack as well as recover from it.
Given a single engineer handles that entire cluster of infantry all guarding 1 or 2 launchers, it's a real waste of manpower.

Lancer & Striker are more one-man weapons that that thing.
An AA nest... the most expensive cluster, that has weapons that are incredibly incapable against the single target designed to strike, easily mulched by the smallest target it is designed to strike.

A superior position, requiring a team to guard: and one engineer on the opposing end to counter.
You see my problem with the comparison to an AA nest, or "team weapon"?

Lancers are dangerous in groups: But they are also fully capable with their tools, and need a group to counter.
Anyone there is also a helper, rather than a proper guard.

Phoenixes.. a single engineer can handle multiple, weapons-fire can be intercepted, and the users need actual guards not helpers.
And it's gonna happen outside of select location of which you can peg down if you know the map.
No way to use it on moving battlefields either.

If it still melts armor quickly or at least drives it off or distracts it, can you really call it a "waste of manpower?" The group of Heavy Assaults in the current spawn rooms would be a "waste of manpower" as well.

Make another thread about the efficiency of AA if you want to go down that argument but the efficiency was never my point. I can trade you back and forth in anecdotes, that I guarantee. Despite however you look down on it for its uselessness, this unit composition still finds reason to form.

No. All I see are complaints that unless the stars are beyond Cthulhu-ready, then the weapon is not good ever.

And so what if you can pull apart minutiae where something can go wrong? You'll always be able to do that in these mental exercises. Every weapon carries no guarantee that it is (or has to be) optimal in every situation. In some, they shine; in some, they're barely sufficient; in some, you would have been better to stay back at the spawn point. The chance of failure is always present. This is nothing if not a patience game, up to and through the point where you change up your tactics or, waiting long enough, end up nose down the barrel of the dreaded thing that counters you.

As long as no one repairs really.
They are, but they aren't also having squads guard them.

Yeah I get seemingly triggered by AA, sorry about that.
It is a proper teamwork thing going on there however.

When an entire team's work is out-preformed by 1 guy with a plastic tool doing something they should already do if they had brain cells, and even the weapon scaled up, the similar ease of countering it scales up better...
It's a sad thing.
That's basically what I'm saying.

1203 rockets, that Engineer has made more progress than the half squad defending the phoenix.
As there is one way to use the Phoenix.
There's many ways to use the rest.

There is no way around the Phoenix guiding system that makes the shooter a sitting duck so the only way to [safely] shoot a missile is from the Spawn Room or behind some sort of cover that breaks enemy LOS: unfortunately, the Phoenix is quite lazy to turn and but not slow enough so to fire from a cover is not really practical (without mentioning the fact you cannot fire crouching because you stand up immediately after launch).

To encourage the Phoenix being used outside a Spawn Room, I propose the following:

1. Make it turn faster or fly slower (if flying slower increase TTL accordingly)
2. Allow it to fire from a crouched position (more options to get coverage)
3. To compensate, the missile can now be destroyed in flight (not by a single bullet but 2-3 at least) allowing vehicles to protect themselves by AAA barrage

Shooting the missile so that it veers off course is already sufficient. "Destroying the missile" is just an excuse to add another bullet onto its lifespan.

Had a phoenix coming for my skygaurd the other day, hit it several times to still eat that missle. I keep seeing ppl tell others to shoot it to mess with its control, but after that I can safely say that it is a waste of time defending and trying to relocate armor is more worth the effort.

Unless missile interception broke, I think you can blame the Skyguard that time. Still, incredible that you hit it at all.

I got a few hit markers... if that means anything. But I'd sooner just relocate now.