C4 feels like the new "lolpods"

C4 is useful in virtually every situation:

-Facing someone who is a better shot or a bunch of Infantry? Throw a stick of C4 and kill them all.
-Facing a MAX? Throw 2 C4 and win no matter what.
-Facing a vehicle as a Non-assault class? Use C4 and sneak up and 1 shot tanks.
-Losing an Air battle? Jump out as Light Assault and throw C4 to 1 shot their aircraft.

It feels as though C4 has replaced grenades when breaching and clearing or trying to deterr or kill enemies around a corner. I've died many times because a LA would drop C4 over a wall at Matterson's Triumph or other bases and die without hearing or seeing anything of my attacker. In the past, playing a MAX gave you a sense of security but no longer. Unless you run Ordinance Armor a MAX gets 1-shotted by C4 and even with Maxed Ordinance Armor its still 2 blocks of C4; everyone who can carry C4 has atleast 2 bricks in most cases, so Ordinance Armor feels worthless.

I understand that Infantry need a means to respond to Vehicles but the ideal tactic to dealing with a Zerg of vehicles (a lot of vehicles) is known as "C4 fairies"; what does that tell you about C4? Flanker Armor on Lightnings like Ordinance Armor is basically worthless for combating C4 as it will still 1-shot if the damage hits the back of the tank.

Now dying to C4 in air is rare and it does take a fair bit of skill to pull off, but it still feels like a breach of air etiquette when you swap over to explosive bricks if you're losing an air battle; feels like heresy.

I will say it, because of the above reasons, I think C4 is OVERPOWERED. It is far too effective at too many things and there is no adequate counters to it. Dying to C4 feels like dying to lolpods: cheesy because your opponent has superior firepower that you can do little against.

C-4 can't kill an entire squad.
C-4 is short-ranged, on a squishy infantry unit.

Lolpods, were on the ESF, the fastest thing in the game, with the gift of full flight, able to unleash the pods in motion at a distance.
And were effective against any vehicle, added in, they are re-loadable in the field, not limited to 2 pieces that are manually detonated.


So no, it isn't the LOL-pods.

And given how limited AV for infantry is, it is what it is.
If someone can C-4 you mid-flight, I'd just call them a jack-*** with skill.

Grenades, also have greater range than C-4, and are able to be brought to bear for less & more of them.
Add in that, if infantry actually get the C-4 onto the tank's ***, it was flanked.

grenades are useless with only 2 exceptions blind and concussion.

"c4 has no counters".

In that case, my pistol has no counters either, right? Because its absolutely impossible to spot a short-ranged weapon that doesnt automatically explode on contact and blow the user to pieces before he can detonate, and my side-arm has an even longer range! Oh noes!

There are only 2 real problems with c4:
1: it has no real competition for the slot, Except for KD whoring.
2: it's too omniversally useful, which ties in with the slot not having any real competition.

The solution is ofcourse to create more utility options. Like starting with splitting C4 in an AI and AV variant with options for small and large packages with different characteristics, resource-costing AV/AA rockelaunchers, AV/AI grenade launchers, powerful deployable shields against air/vehicles/infantry, support utilities like a 200 resource deployable AMS, a machine that distorts the area the farther away you are (making hits harder), deployable short-range teleporters and more.
Spread these over the classes, with shields, AMS and teleporters for the MEDIC as that class needs it the most and has enough lore reasons to have access to them, and you have alternatives

As for the problems you are experiencing: adapt. The best thing against vehicle Zergs remains another vehicle zerg as c4 fairies can only really attack a single playertype: dumb tunnelvision players when the enemy vehicles are gone. If you keep getting c4red at a specific locatiin at a specific base, maybe dont stand there anymore? They throw c4 there because YOU are predictably on that position. And you are probably there because you can't stand the idea that someone else is there killing enemies before you get a shot at them... Same with vehicles. Staying safe from c4 is almost automatic when you spot the fairy in time. And with less than a second work and low skill situational awareness you can predict enemy c4 fairy approaches and get a free kill every time one tries to get you. But similar to your infantry problem you'll find tanks right up against cover that the fairy can approach in relative safety and drop c4 over in a split second of appearing. But somehow thats not the players problem, its the c4 fairy that OP for abusing your lack of skill...

I agree that C4 is somewhat cheesy to use versus infantry, however against vehicles its absolutly fine. Other then that, i fully agree with Demigan.

c4 is the cancer of this game. i also wanted to post about it. i agree with you. c4 should be nerfed. totally nerfed. and it leaves 1/4 hp to max with full flak armor. want to have fun? BOOM you and your tank/max are no more. whay cant we go back to oldschool metod where bazucka and torrents should be taken to destroy the oposit tank/sunderer.

If you got C-4'd as a tank.. what were you doing?
Likely sitting next to a balcony or cliff, trying to waste infantry before your allies can fire... so you are as close as possible...
So you're complaining that infantry could kill you, while in their face.

Max unit, I can imagine why that is annoying, given maxes are slower than infantry, and cost 450.

Bazooka.
A rocket Launcher took 4 of 5 shots , that hit the target, without it repairing for free, which is also faster than the reload, to destroy the tank.
This tank had the ability to 1-shot any infantry that tried this, and repair during the conflict entirely.
Add in the top-gun, cover, distance, and the range advantage of the tank followed by slow rocket velocity.... the tank had it pretty swell.
As nothing from infantry could kill it, even with the jump on it; Even up close, meters away.
The faster vehicle with longer range, with better armor, and more damage: dies to a CQC nanite weapon. The blasphemy.


Idk wtf your "torrents" means.

But if you die to C-4 as a tank, you failed to actually be aware, use your range advantage, your multitude of defensive options, and let yourself be in a position to be C-4'd.
Likely while farming infantry too bloody close.

They aren't meant to be fodder, unable to challenge you without you ******* up hard-core.

I do not buy this **** about 'you just weren't aware enough' in your tank if you get C4'd. Face it, in this game pretty much more than any other, you cannot be aware of all threats at all times. A LA can drop in from altitude, or just boost right up to a tank with Ambushers and your tank is toast.

I suggested years ago that a C4 brick should make a small sound when sticking to a tank. Kind of like a large magnet would make a ***** sound if you stuck it onto a sheet of metal. It wouldn't have to be loud, just loud enough that people using their ears would have a chance to avoid the second brick. I think in most cases the LA would still come out on top, especially since the introduction of Rocklet Rifles and CAI.

Also a detonation delay of a second or two.

The thing is, using C4 these days is more interesting than ever.

Search a big clusterf**k, go for the new jetpack with some luck you don´t even render... unleash J i h a d.
What is a better deal? Giving away 1000 certs for nerfed Decimator with the remaining ability to OHK infantry. Or unlocking an atomic bomb for 200.

Alright, let's put an end to this crap, once and for all.
C4 is atrociously strong against virtually every single opponent in virtually every single situation in this game.

I use it on every single one of my loadouts (except infiltrator and 2 engineer ones).
I use it against infantry patches to score easy multikills.
I use it against vehicles to instagib them.
I use it against MAX-es to instagib them.
I use it against infantry behind cover to instagib them.
I use it against anticipated rushes from organized opposition to instagib them.
I use it to instagib [your well thought out plan here].
...

They are the one-click go-to solution to virtually every single threat you will encounter in this game.

Those who say that C4 needs any kind of skill to use are simply bad and overestimate their performance (and think that flanking their enemy makes them A-tier geniuses in any way).

C4 don't need skill to use.

If you are smarter than an AP shell fired by a Prowler, C4 don't pose a challenge to use.

And in the worst case, you just come back with another set of C4, with no penalty, because you can just keep trying to get the C4 onto your opponents for as long as you want.

They are only not a Harasser-grade cancer because they are not spammed as badly as they could be, which, IMO, is. The reason for this is that when there is a good farm, people usually farm directives they need instead, and C4 directive is usually long done for everyone. When I kill with C4, I always feel that I could've instead killed them with something I'm still farming.

C4 are comparable to beta lolpods, although indeed certainly not as powerful.

1. Medkits are OP, and shield capacitor ain't bad.
2. Medkits are OP, and shield capacitor ain't bad.

Aside from that, it's expensive as ****. 150 nanites every run! I think the cost balances it out. You definitely can't spam it. I've recently taken up light assault and ran that while waiting to pull an ESF. Killing a tank set me back 3 minutes. That sucks considering a plane is 7 minutes.

Or Grenade Bandolier, throwing in packs of 3 can do great damage (and most importantly, chaos against an entrenched opposition).

Agreed, grenade bandolier with 3-4 of pretty much any grenade type makes breaching a breeze, I use my LA to suicide rooms with 4 Flashbangs then 2 C4 while everyone is blind. Almost always results in the room being cleared and my being revived.

Tbh the closest good argument I've heard so far is to make specific types of Demo charge. AV, AI and anti-structure, but how that would balance is indeed questionable. would the HE charge be any good vs vehicles? Would the AV charge be as useless as AP is now?

I agree that on balance C4 is probably adequately balanced by the 75 Nanite charge to use. Even with a membership that's 5 raids on enemy armour with a two-minute wait to get a sixth, you'd probably manage 7 before running out of nanites unless you were using grenades at the same time or using C4 Flashes.

But hell, if there's an assault on a base and the armour outside loses 2-3 units in a minute if the rest haven't started watching for incoming LAs then they deserve to die.

If you're not obsessed with shelling a spawn room they're fairly easy to spot.

Hey HAXTIME, Luicanus. You know whats funny? Those super-easy multikills would look pretty awesome, people would be making a lot of video's about those actions (God knows how full the internet is of the cheapest easiest killstreaks). But... Hey theres only video's of people hovering over large infantry concentration, blowing up the occasional tank, c4 flashes and Blackboemel's Harasser video's with c4. But its interesting that you'll find more video's about people c4ring an aircraft than you'll find clearinf entire rooms... Especially since the AOE has been nerfed again. And if even 4+ grenades wont clear a room, how could c4 do that exactly?

Thats the rub, you tell stories about some magical exploit that just doesnt happen.

As for Jac's "I dont believe in situational awareness", isnt it funny that everyone who says that has a problem with c4...

Buff standard grenades.

Done. You won't see as much of the cheese meta from C4.

New C4 is just barely OK. however, it is OP if it is used with ambusher.

Target outside of 5 meters.
Sniper.
Tank that knows the keyboard.
Non-massed Infantry. (with a shorter blast radius these days btw)
Max that isn't below you.
Heavy Assault that is awake, and not below you.
Harassers.
Infiltrators in general.
Aircraft.

Like, I'm sorry, how does your C-4 manage to teleport across the field into range to kill every possible threat?
How exactly does your C-4 manage to instantaneously detonate on these threats upon being sighted?
Is every single situation in your gameplay, within 3 meters, with them never being bright enough to Look in front, above, or anywhere?

As in this world, a shotgun would also be always in range, since nothing is further than C-4 range apparently.

Worst case, you come back with a MBT, Heavy Assault, ESF or similar, and try again.
Not like only one of three mentioned here also costs nanites, just like the C-4 Attempts.
After all, it's not as if EVERYTHING can be respawned to try again.

Yeah, You go throw that C-4 across the field!
Certainly could have done it, unless it was an MBT - Or Sunderer.
As well. Good luck doing that, with them having all the time in the world, when you can walk up to them - Since only C-4 actually lets that inattentiveness in a vehicle be a problem, when handling infantry.


So.
Yeah , where do you get your launch-able C-4 packs.
As mine is hand-thrown.

Eh, the rocklet rifle is the real issue rather than C4. It gave the most mobile class the ability to solo most sunderers with ease, completely ruining small fights.

The reason that C4 Fairies are so devastating against Zergs is that the Zergs aren't paying attention to anything other than the target on front of them on the ground and they tend to be bunched up in a tight mass.


C-4 is not over powered.
Everything has a use and a counter.

Radar, spitfire turrets, and snipers are the bane of light assaults.

Engineers, Medics, and Heavys practically have to be right on top of you or have pre-set their C-4 for it to be of use (and pre-setting explosives has become a bit off a joke after adding implants to detect explosives - there might as well be an implant to auto-detect enemies within a certain distance!).

Nah, the 'not paying attention' argument won't wash. An LA can appear over a balcony, drop a C4 and kill half the attacking force in milliseconds. A Spitfire won't help, its acquire time is long enough that the LA can peek, throw and detonate before it even starts beeping.